Geocoding: Legal address

Posted By: Angel Eyes

Geocoding: Legal address - 02/28/03 04:20 PM

Anyone out there have a good system to find out the geocoding information when all you have is a legal description for a plot of land out in nowhere land. The one we have right now is in a county that we don't normally do business in, so I don't have a plat book handy. That means that unless I can find a better solution I will be running to the library this afternoon to page through a plat book to find the SW1/4 of tract 12 in the township of wherever. Please tell me there is an easier way!!!!
Posted By: Patsy Cline

Re: Geocoding: Legal address - 02/28/03 04:24 PM

Do you know the city, state and zip code? Go to the FFIEC's website and select geocoding. Type in "main" for the street address, enter the city, state and zip code then search. It will come back address not found BUT it will give you the option to get a map of the zip code area.

This might help!
Posted By: Angel Eyes

Re: Geocoding: Legal address - 02/28/03 04:28 PM

Thanks Michelle....I did try that unfortunately this is not a small town where all outlying areas are in one tract. It is an MSA with many, many, many tracts
Posted By: hmdagal

Re: Geocoding: Legal address - 02/28/03 04:30 PM

I've got census maps for all of the Wisconsin counties that are not in an MSA. What county/what town are they? Do you have information on any crossroads or nearby lakes/rivers etc?
Posted By: RebekahL CRCM

Re: Geocoding: Legal address - 02/28/03 04:37 PM

I agree with Michelle's advise, but I'll give you another resource. While FFIEC's site is pretty good, the maps can be sometimes be rather, well, lacking. The detail sometimes stinks.

Here's a site from American Fact Finder, through the US Census Bureau. It is pretty quick and accurate. Just keep clicking into the area you need to zoom into. Odds are, if your property is "in nowhere land", there won't be a census tract boundary running flat down the middle of it, so as long as you get pretty close, the census tract will be easy to determine. You may have to contact the customer to find out some info on the property location (i.e. just SW of Littleville, between Dirtdigger Lane and Deadman's Ave.)

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/AdvancedGeoSearchMapFramesetServlet?_lang=en&_command=getPlacenames

Also, on FFIEC's site, there is a "FFIEC census reports" link at the bottom of this page. http://www.ffiec.gov/geocode/default.htm

If you click in it, you can at least find the state and county codes to go with your census tract code from American Fact Finder.

Granted, with this method you have to do a bit of on-line searching, but in my book, at least you still have your cushy chair, background music, etc., and no dusty plat books!

Good luck!
Posted By: RebekahL CRCM

Re: Geocoding: Legal address - 02/28/03 04:44 PM

Quote:

unfortunately this is not a small town where all outlying areas are in one tract. It is an MSA with many, many, many tracts



Shoot. I'm afraid my suggestions may not work then, either. Sorry about that! Heck, you may still want to try the American Fact Finder site, though. The detail may be good enough to pinpoint your property if you find out some of the crossroads.
Posted By: Andy_Z

Re: Geocoding: Legal address - 02/28/03 04:46 PM

To find general areas, I have used this successfully a number of times, when in a pinch. It is good when you know where, but 911 addresses are hard to come by.

http://plue.sedac.ciesin.org/plue/ddviewer/
Posted By: RGS

Re: Geocoding: Legal address - 02/28/03 05:07 PM

Although not a perfect solution, I've found that the maps on http://www.census.gov/geo/www/maps/CP_MapProducts.htm
help me to find "where" a tract is, but I generally have to quiz the lender to find out "where" (in relation to other locations that I can locate on the map) in order to make the maps work for me. Luckily for me our lenders are expected to know the "where" and they are cooperative in helping me "play Sherlock Holmes".
Posted By: Angel Eyes

Re: Geocoding: Legal address - 02/28/03 06:26 PM

Hmdagal,

Here is what I have:
The SE1/4 of the SE1/4 of Section 34, Township 17 North, Range 4 East, Town of Germantown, Juneau County, Wisconsin, lying South of County Trunk Highway "G", except lands used for Petras Lane.

Thanks for all the help everyone! Maybe I won't have to spend the afternoon at the library!
Posted By: Tina A Sweet

Re: Geocoding: Legal address - 02/28/03 06:54 PM

Jennifer,

If you only have a lot, you may need to use the business address. In my area that is usually the house. Ag is usually like that. BIG Ag area.
Posted By: Princess Romeo

Re: Geocoding: Legal address - 02/28/03 07:05 PM

HMDAGAL - Why is it you only have a legal description? Is this a construction loan, or a construction-perm loan? If it's construction only, then you don't need to report it.

If it's a construction perm, or any other type of HMDA reportable, and you only have a legal description, then you have my sympathies.
Posted By: Don_Narup

Re: Geocoding: Legal address - 02/28/03 07:08 PM

If it is East of 19th ave (I believe it is) The tract is 9903.00. If its West it 9904.00

I'm e-mailig you a map
Posted By: Don_Narup

Re: Geocoding: Legal address - 02/28/03 07:14 PM

OOps Need you e-mail address. Its not on your profile
Posted By: I Wear Many Hats

Re: Geocoding: Legal address - 02/28/03 07:15 PM

Was there an appraisal? Our appraisers put the geo code on one of the first pages of the appraisal - where there is lots of information in teeny, tiny type. Is the county in your assessment area? I had an OCC examiner tell me I didn't need to geo code loans made out of our assessment area because they weren't going to count them anyway. Now, for out of area loans, I don't bother unless I can easily find it.

Opinions are mine and mine alone.
Posted By: Angel Eyes

Re: Geocoding: Legal address - 02/28/03 08:59 PM

Thank you all so very much. This was a small business (CRA) loan where this plot of land was taken for collateral. No construction, no appraisal. The lender seems to think that it is easier for me to spend an hour at the library than to have someone disturb his customer with such trivial information such as the exact location of the property! No offense to any commercial lenders out there...but come on, my feeling is you took the collateral, now you tell me where it is! Ok Rant over...maybe it is these pregnancy hormones

I just finished e-mailing Don a very nice thank you for all his hard work. I have never personally used his services before but WOW if his customer service is anything like his responses here on BOL that is definitely a place I want to do business with!
Posted By: Lu

Re: Geocoding: Legal address - 02/28/03 09:17 PM

Hey R.G.! Love your picture!
Go cats!
Posted By: rlcarey

Re: Geocoding: Legal address - 02/28/03 09:19 PM

Just curoius - If the LO has not seen the property, how does he know that the bank isn't in line to own a toxic waste dump? I hope there is other collateral or the borrower has other strengths. Lending on property sight unseen is not a sound lending practice. Depending on the value of the transaction, the appraisal rules are not limited to improved real property either.

I'm with you, most good credit officers would know the collateral's whereabouts.
Posted By: RGS

Re: Geocoding: Legal address - 02/28/03 09:25 PM

Quote:

Hey R.G.! Love your picture!
Go cats!



Thanks lhf. I don't remember where I found it, but it's my favorite so far!

Posted By: complyguy

Re: Geocoding: Legal address - 03/01/03 12:02 AM

Quote:

Just curoius - If the LO has not seen the property, how does he know that the bank isn't in line to own a toxic waste dump? I hope there is other collateral or the borrower has other strengths. Lending on property sight unseen is not a sound lending practice. Depending on the value of the transaction, the appraisal rules are not limited to improved real property either.

I'm with you, most good credit officers would know the collateral's whereabouts.



Thanks for bringing that up. I was thinking CERCLA/SARA, too, but I'm strange that way.
Posted By: HRH Dawnie

Re: Geocoding: Legal address - 03/01/03 01:20 AM

Just a thought (too late to be thinking) the loan was on raw land? That wouldn't be reported as a commercial and industrial loan right? (Call report instructions: Exclude from commercial and industrial loans: (1) Loans secrued by real estate, even if for commercial and industrial purposes (report in Schedule RC-C, part 1, item 1). ????
Posted By: SMQ, CRCM

Re: Geocoding: Legal address - 03/01/03 01:38 AM

Sue,

In regard to "I had an OCC examiner tell me I didn't need to geo code loans made out of our assessment area because they weren't going to count them anyway. Now, for out of area loans, I don't bother unless I can easily find it."
Are you a Large Bank for HMDA?
Posted By: Andy_Z

Re: Geocoding: Legal address - 03/01/03 03:50 AM

Quote:

I had an OCC examiner tell me I didn't need to geocode loans made out of our assessment area because they weren't going to count them anyway. Now, for out of area loans, I don't bother unless I can easily find it."



CA, I am hoping she is not and this is supported by the fact that small banks are judged partially on loans in and out of their area. If her bank is a large bank, HMDA reporter, consider re-evaluating this position.

ยง203.4 Compilation of loan data (e) Data reporting under CRA for banks and savings associations with total assets of $250 million or more and banks and savings associations that are subsidiaries of a holding company whose total banking and thrift assets are $1 billion or more. As required by agency regulations that implement the Community Reinvestment Act, banks and savings associations that had total assets of $250 million or more (or are subsidiaries of a holding company with total banking and thrift assets of $1 billion or more) as of December 31 for each of the immediately preceding two years, shall also collect the location of property located outside the MSAs in which the institution has a home or branch office, or outside any MSAs.
Posted By: SMQ, CRCM

Re: Geocoding: Legal address - 03/01/03 03:59 AM

Andy, that is exactly what I was thinking. You know, I hope there is life after HMDA. I'm going home. I bet you are at home, playing with those kewl toys, right.
Posted By: Andy_Z

Re: Geocoding: Legal address - 03/01/03 04:34 AM

Wireless in the easy chair. You betcha!
Posted By: HRH Dawnie

Re: Geocoding: Legal address - 03/01/03 09:54 PM

For the large bank folks, I geocode everything. If you can show that you're more than meeting the needs of your assessment area you can get "extra" credit for meeting the needs of low and moderate income deals outside of your assessment area as well on the lending and service test.

The Rural Native Distressed Communities Program I get so many nifty awards for is entirely OUTSIDE of my assessment area. Because the needs are so high and the level of service provided in these areas is low to nothing, I can swing from Satisfactory to Outstanding on these deals.

So...I geocode everything You never know what you might find out you're doing!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Geocoding: Legal address - 03/01/03 10:00 PM

Since Large Banks are required to geocode all of these loans, I wanted to get this discussion going so that someone new to CRA didn't get a very nasty surprise on their HMDA submission. I was afraid that a comment further up this thread might be misleading. When our bank started into this arena, I did a lot of research trying to find a way out of it, but no such luck.
Posted By: SMQ, CRCM

Re: Geocoding: Legal address - 03/01/03 10:04 PM

The Anony.. above is me, got logged out somehow.
Posted By: HRH Dawnie

Re: Geocoding: Legal address - 03/01/03 10:07 PM

Good idea to point that out. I just thought I'd throw my one and a half cents in I think that while it might be a requirement, I think it's a great idea. Yes it could be a bit of work but the benefits might be greater than you'd think. Every weapon I have to "Spin" during an exam I want in front of me from the get go.
Posted By: CarlD

Re: Geocoding: Legal address - 03/03/03 05:18 PM

Two handy resources are
- Microsoft MapPoint
- www.landvoyage.com/individual_map/location_search.asp?PortalID=1&SessionID=183991

It may not apply in this situation, but many appraisal and flood survey services use GPS to provide a longitude and latitude.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Geocoding: Legal address - 03/03/03 09:48 PM

Please don't laugh, I know this is probably a goofy question. A lender closed a home improvement loan secured by a CD. The property where the improvements are to be made is located in PERU (South America). The customer is a South American military officer who is at our local military base for training. Since Peru is definitely outside our assessment area, just want to confirm that this is not a reportable loan. Thanks!
Posted By: MRJ

Re: Geocoding: Legal address - 03/03/03 10:41 PM

Quote:

This was a small business (CRA) loan where this plot of land was taken for collateral. No construction, no appraisal.



This statement seems to indicate that this plot of land is not the location where the funds are going to be applied, ie. business headquarters or some other location where the loan funds will be used, then the location of this collateral is not relevant. Dawnie makes a great point in a prior post regarding call code classification, and the fact that is may not even be considered a "small business loan". These are a couple of points to consider when looking at a loan like this.