Homeownership Counseling Organizations - List

Has the CFPB provided any model notices or lists of counseling agencies? Have I missed something? We are running out of calendar!

Does anyone have a model they would like to share?

I just went to the HUD website, searched the State I'm in and found the cities close to us that provide counseling. I took that info, and just put it on a word document with a footer that has the Date I got the info and another footer with the spefic website address so I can remember for next time.

If they have any model forms, I wasn't aware.

Are you listing all the agenicies in your area? There are about 35 in our area, do I have to list them all. We are also going to include MGIC on our list.

I think I would stay turned as the portal is probably going to show up at the last moment. Hopefully it will work better than another recently publicized Federal portal

While the Bureau understands the concerns raised by commenters about the burden of generating zipcode based lists for potential borrowers, the Bureau notes that the statutory requirement indicates that the list should be comprised of counselors “located in the area of the lender.” The Bureau is interpreting this requirement to mean the location of the applicant who is being served by the lender. The Bureau continues to believe that a list of counseling resources available near the applicant’s location will be most useful to the applicant. The Bureau also believes that permitting lists to be generated based on larger geographic areas, such as an applicant’s state, would frequently result in an applicant receiving a list that is overwhelmingly lengthy.

The Bureau is finalizing § 1024.20(a)(1) to require that the list contain only counseling organizations, pursuant to the same exemption authority, and anticipates that the website portal it develops may generate lists that include counseling organizations that are either certified or otherwise approved by HUD. Because the website portal will automatically create lists that include the relevant homeownership counseling organizations, the Bureau is not finalizing proposed § 1024.20(a)(2).

It is my understanding that no PMI companies are approved to do the counseling. I know they are trying to get approved, but so far HUD and CFPB have resisted those requests.

Hey looky here. I just received this in my e-mail:

http://www.consumerfinance.gov/newsroom/...=regimp20131108

Fortunately for us, there aren't a lot to post but the bulletin that just came out says you need at least 10. When I put our southernmost zipcode in the portal, it actually gave me a choice of Homeownership Counselors from up to 100 miles away. (I'm sure those borrowers are just going to LOVE that.)

Telephone counseling is allowed.

Cool. The nearest one to my town is 40 miles away.

Is it just me, or does this "tool" look like it's going to be really unweildy in practice?

What, you thought you would be able to plug in a zipcode and print off a one page document to hand to the customer????

Closest to our location is 61 miles.

Plug in 96799, the ZIP Code for Pago Pago, American Samoa (where Regs X and Z apply). The tool will list ten organizations in southernmost Texas, which is over 5,000 air miles from American Samoa. In reality, the closest organizations to AS are in Honolulu, which is about 2,600 miles away. Apparently, the tool doesn't handle well distances more than 999 miles. The Texas locations show up as being about 600 miles from Pago Pago.

The distances used in the tool (other than those misrepresented because they are 1,000 or more miles away) appear to be air miles, which can be misleading, too, since road mileage is often considerably more.

It is totally just straight lines from zip centroid. I would be inclined to provide some national organizations that provide telephone and/or online counseling in these situations. The option is there for that purpose.

When you print from the PDF there is no date? Is anyone else seeing that? How do we prove the most recent one was printed and given?

Yea, I can be kinda silly like that...sigh...

What am i missing? Why can't you just print it off? I entered our zip and got the 10 closest ones to us...i was hoping it would be as simple as printing that off at time of application.

I can print, however there is no date in the footer, burden of proof!

Anybody else getting a "this file cannot be saved" warning if you try to save the tool to your desktop?

Sorry, what do you mean save the tool to your desktop?

Save the pdf file and the file will have the "created" date.

I'm trying to save that particular webpage (that has the tool on it) to my desktop (i guess it's really to a network drive....i'm not very computer savvy).

Just a shortcut to the page so you can can click the link and go to the website?

Yes, Kathleen....i'd rather be able to email that or something to my processors than put in "go to www.cfpb.gov (etc.etc.)".

Not knowing what version of windows you have, I was able to bookmark and save to my Bookmark Toolbar. In earlier versions I could have created a shortcut to desktop.

I have windows 8 so what I do will be different than earlier versions. Using IE, I was able to add a shortcut to my start screen. You should be able to create a shortcut on your desktop for the bookmarked link.

Thanks....it must be something with my computer....it is giving me a "file cannot be saved" message.

I didn't try to save the file. I bookmarked the link. See if IT can help you!

good idea.

I hit the "Print list" button and the date printed on the bottom along with the web address.

Dani, that way does give a date. It is not the "pretty pdf" like the other choice, but it does have a date and source data!

Of the ten on my list, one says service not available. So how would I find one to replace it, or don't I have to since technically I printed their list.
I'm leaning towards, just print their list.

It's their list - go with it.

A major vendor just provided a notice to use for the Home Counseling requirements but it requires the borrower to pull the list themselves. It includes a link to the CFPB and basically says "do it yourself". They state the 11/14/2013 FR permits this and gives them until July 10, 2014 to automate the population of the list of counselors.

I don't see anything in the FR about July 10, 2014 and I don't think this is permitted but our lenders are doing a happy dance because I previously told them they had to print the list out.

Did I miss something?

Tell your lenders to calm down. The regulation clearly requires that "the lender must provide the loan applicant with a clear and conspicuous written list of homeownership counseling organizations . . ." [12 CFR 1024.20(a)(1)]. {emphasis mine}

I highly doubt that providing a URL to an applicant would qualify as providing a written list.

Well unfortunately, I was wrong. I read the Final Rule but there is a 11/8/13 Bulletin that says:

Interim Option 3 - The third, interim option acknowledges that system updates will be required in order to take advantage of the second option. As mentioned above, the CFPB believes that it may take 6 months to implement the system updates. Thus, creditors would not be able to take advantage of Option 2 on the January 10, 2014 effective date. Accordingly, while creditors are making a good faith effort to implement Option 2, creditors may fulfill the housing counselor disclosure requirement by directing consumers to the CFPB’s housing counselor website, using sample text provided in the guidance bulletin.

http://files.consumerfinance.gov/f/20131...equirements.pdf

I gotta remember to read the Rule, any updates to Rules, the bulletins, guidances, blogs and wherever else information may hide before I open my big mouth!

Am I reading the reg right that we could the list out for our most popular zip codes and just update our print out every 30 days?

Sure, as long as you can be sure to send the right list based on the customer's location. We determined internally that it would take as many steps to go to the website and print out the list individually as it would take to shuffle through the possible zip codes and find the right document to include with the borrower's other documents. And you'd still have to print one out if you had an outlier anyway.

True. I just want the least steps involved. I emailed our software vendor to see if anything will be possible through them. I will wait to see their response and go from there.

Also, does the list have to be given on HELOCs?

Yes, I believe they do since this section has been expanded to include HELOCs.

Our vendor is providing the temp notice of directing the borrower to the website while they update their system to generate the list.

I would like to take advantage of using their notice because I think it will cause less errors and confusion. However, I'm concerned that an examiner would scrutinize the process because we could have generated the list ourselves using the tool provided.

ahkcompliance - we must have the same vendor. Unfortunately, I am not the only one to get the emails from the vendor and since everyone likes to take the easy way out, the departments ran with it. I, personally, would have said just print it out and not given them that option. But since they made the decision, I will hang on to the Bulletin from the CFPB saying it is OK to do it this way to defend their decision.

Thanks for your input Tesla! Luckily for me I am the one to actually pay attention to the notifications! I would like to just go with the vendor but am hesitant. Also afraid lenders will forget to print out the notice and retain a copy in file.

When I pulled up the list today I had several duplicates. In fact the first 9 listings only represented 3 different counselors. Has anybody else experienced this? I have looked at the list before and it wasn't like that.

I look at it this way. The Congress and the regulators created this nightmare - it is not the bank's list. I would print it off, no questions asked and hand it to the loan applicant. If the loan applicant has questions or comments, have your Congressperson's phone number handy.

Yes, over the weekend they were fine. Then yesterday, it displayed 2 of each counselor. Now today, it's displaying 3 of each, limited to the first 10, so you're really only getting 4 counselors.

Hmmm......interesting. Maybe they will correct that soon.

I went to print out a list and got healthcare Just kidding, but for our rural branches there is typically only one counselor within a 60 mile range. Good thing we don't do HOEPA loans.

But doesnt the list need to be given to all applications for purchae money and open end credit secured by the consumer's principal dwelling. It just only High Cost that are required to get counseling????

Yes, the list has to be given to all.

You have to give a list on all RESPA covered loans. If your loan meets other requirements for actual counseling under Reg Z you give a list AND verify counseling was completed.

Hi everyone. I hope this does not get stuck on the bottom of the page. Does anyone have any language that they are giving their customer to affirm (sign) that they received a copy of this?

Two of our secondary market investors are requiring that we prove the customer received a copy.

Thank you!

Our loan system added a form.

Do we need to keep a copy in the loan file to prove we gave to the customer?

(I didn't see the third page of this thread.. sorry!)

No, you should develop a process demonstrating that you provide this to all of your customers. However, we have secondary market investors who want to see a signed disclosure. In order to sell to them, we have to do what they say.

Just printing two copies, one to hand to the borrower, and one for the file, per investor requirements.

The reason you may want to keep a copy in your file is to show that you gave a list current within 30 days.

The lists out on the website will print a print date if you do NOT use the .pdf version.

We use Laser Pro for in-house loans, and Calix for secondary market loans. Both have added a form for Acknowledgement of Receipt of Counselor List. There is a line for the applicant to sign and we keep a copy in the file. We will use the list of counselors that are on the CFPB site.

I do not see a requirement for customer confirmation of receipt of the list, so what is everyone doing to document compliance?

We have the Homeownership Counseling Org List on our early disclosure checklist. This checklist is completed BEFORE the disclosures go out (vs. during a post-booking review).

It's included in our "intent to proceed" letter.

It is also included in our letter.

Does anyone know if the CFPB is okay with the counseling being online vs. telephone or in person? Our closest counselor is 120 miles and they offer online training, which is essential in our state. In addition, the counselor will discuss the consumer's early/closing disclosures prior to certification. Someone thought they read where online training will not be acceptable, so I thought I better ask the experts!

Not that I know of or see in the regulations. I thought I remember in the actual rule discussion that it was acceptable. It's not reasonable to expect someone to go an unreasonable distance to get the required counseling...there are way too many remote areas with no couseling nearby.

That was my thinking too! Thank you.

By the way, there are homeownership counselors closer and HUD approved; however, they do not appear on the CFPB list. They are offering the same online training as the ones on the list. Do we dare not use them because they are not on the list? This counselor would be much closer to us and our customer could possibly drive there and do it in person.

From what I can tell, so long as they are HUD approved, the are acceptable.

Also, have you checked this additional list on the Bureau's site to see if they may be on it?

http://portal.hud.gov/hudportal/HUD?src=/ohc_nint

Sorry, that HUD list actually came from a link on the Bureau website here:

http://www.consumerfinance.gov/find-a-housing-counselor/

I had already checked the list of additional counselors and this particular servicer is not on there. Thank you for your assistance.

how do you print one from laserpro for helocs with the app date and applicant's name and address?