Congress, get off your gas, and drill!

Posted By: Bimmer

Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/10/08 12:11 AM

Congress, get off your gas, and drill!
by Chuck Norris

Last Thursday oil prices increased $5.50 per barrel in one day. Last Friday marked the biggest single-day surge in oil price history, rocketing $11 more to $138 on the New York Mercantile Exchange. In just two days, oil costs increased 13 percent.

Average Americans are literally driving to the poor house on financial fumes. With gas at more than $4 per gallon, roughly two cars in every household, and the average annual gas usage at 700 gallons, you do the math. Americans are being forced to use their hard-earned money that once put food in their stomachs to now put petroleum into their tanks, but to drive the exact same distances they drove a decade ago for four-to-five times the price.

As oil and gas prices skyrocket, Congress continues to play the blame game. In April 2006, with the Democrats poised to take over Congress with Nancy Pelosi at the helm, she released a statement saying, "With skyrocketing gas prices, it is clear that the American people can no longer afford the Republican Rubber Stamp Congress." She followed that with the commitment, "Democrats have a common sense plan to help bring down skyrocketing gas prices by cracking down on price gouging." So has the Democrat's commonsense plan worked? Average gas prices were about $2.50 a gallon at the time. Now they're $4 a gallon and rising. Some crack-down plan.

Meanwhile, in the Senate, they are going to discuss this week a cap-and-trade system, something that Obama and MCain both support. The main problem is official estimates say that it will increase gas by another $1.50 a gallon. Or as Newt Gringrich said in an interview recently with Glenn Beck, "It should be called 'Raise prices and destroy jobs' because that's what it will do. It's going to raise the price of gasoline; it's going to raise the price of diesel fuel for truckers. It's going to raise the price of aviation fuel for an already ailing airline industry. It's going to raise the price of heating oil. It's going to raise the price of natural gas, and it's going to raise the price of coal."

From the steady decline in the value of our dollar, to trade deficits and oil dependency, our sovereignty is being sold out from underneath us. Might I remind the federal government what one of their original and primary charges is: to protect the American public from the tyranny of foreign powers – which is exactly what is happening through others' financial rule over us. It is sucking the life out of our economy. And Congress is virtually standing by and watching it happen.

Look at the energy chaos that our government has allowed. While we remain at the mercy of oil companies, cartels and OPEC, our government has tied the hands of states and citizens to tap even temporary energy relief from our own land. Here are a few key vistas on the oil and energy landscape at the moment:

* Though we have more oil in the shale of Colorado, Utah and Wyoming than combined in the Middle East (800 billion barrels), liberals and environmentalists have made it illegal to touch it.
* It's illegal to drill in northern Alaska (Arctic National Wildlife Refuge), or off the coasts of Florida or California.
* Oil fields in Colorado are being shut down.
* We won't develop shale oil fields in the Western states
* It's illegal to explore in the Atlantic.
* It's illegal to explore in the Pacific
* It's illegal to explore in the Eastern Gulf of Mexico
* We're not receiving any more leases to drill in the Gulf of Mexico, while China, Venezuela and Cuba are.
* We haven't built an oil refinery in 25 years and reduced in half those we have
* There's enough natural gas beneath America (406 trillion cube feet) to heat every home in America for the next 150 years, but we can't tap it all.
* We have the largest supply of coal in the world, but it's Germany who is planning to build 27 coal-fired electrical plants by 2020.
* American airlines are in danger of going out of business.
* American truckers are being stranded on the sides of the road.
* American commuters are going bankrupt trying to travel back and forth to work, and are being forced to work locally for lower wages.

If there isn't a conspiracy going on here, someone needs to make a movie about one!

Bill Clinton once said, "We just have to slow down our economy and cut back our greenhouse emissions because we've got to save the planet for our grandchildren." That is the type of mentality that got us in this trouble. I'm all for doing our best to preserve our planet, but not at the price of losing our nation in the process. Bill's words just might come true, but not as he or Al Gore might expect. We might save the planet for our grandchildren, and lose America at the same time, unless we turn around this energy crisis now.

Instead of whining and blaming, Congress needs to take some practical steps now to stop the insanity at the pumps, reduce our dependence on foreign oil, open up some temporary energy production avenues for economic relief (like shale development) and focus more of their taxpayer work time into establishing further alternative ways of producing energy for everything (from coal, electrical, natural gas, hydrogen, solar, nuclear, wind, etc.) Being the wealthiest nation on Earth, there is simply no reason or justification for us to be dependent on fuels that we can't produce in our country.

If you're sick and tired of giving away $2 of every gallon of gas to foreign dictators, making other oil-producing countries, cartels and tycoons rich beyond their imagination, and watching the federal government flail for energy solutions and bow to international powers –all of whom are sucking the very life out of the American people, economy and threatening national security – I implore you to sign and pass along the petition, "Drill here, drill now, pay less" at Newt Gingrich's American Solutions website. We're hoping to send millions of signatures to Congress demanding an immediate emergency session and resolution to our economic and national security crisis revolving around soaring oil and gas prices.

Our message: It's time to drill here and drill now! The petition is simple. It states: "We therefore the undersigned citizens of the United States petition the U.S. Congress to act immediately to lower gas prices by authorizing exploration of proven energy reserves and reduce our dependence on foreign energy sources from unstable countries."

Speaking of unstable countries, did I mention that the Iraq oil minister just reported that oil production is at pre-war levels (2.5 million barrels a day), yielding earnings for Iraq of $28.5 billion in just the first five months of this year? What that means is, we'll likely soon be dependent and in debt to yet another Middle Eastern oil-producing country that we've helped stabilize and become wealthy while ours is going straight down the tubes.

Congratulations Congress – you're completely failing us.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=66557&6=7
Posted By: Hrothgar Geiger

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/10/08 12:55 AM

Bimmer,

For how many years would the price of crude oil have to remain at $100/bbl or more to make oil shale economically feasible?
Posted By: TheManofSteel

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/10/08 01:02 AM

Some of these ideas were attempted by congress last year. Almost every democrat responded on the floor of congress by standing up, pumping their fists in the air, and chanting with one voice, "SHAME, SHAME, SHAME, SHAME!"
Posted By: Blessed

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/10/08 01:14 AM

Maybe President Elect Obamessiah will CHANGE that.....
Posted By: Bimmer

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/10/08 01:15 AM

Originally Posted By: AML-Barbarian
Bimmer,

For how many years would the price of crude oil have to remain at $100/bbl or more to make oil shale economically feasible?


Royal Dutch Shell has announced that its in situ extraction technology in Colorado could become competitive at prices over $30 per barrel, while other technologies at full-scale production assert profitability at oil prices even lower than $20 per barrel. To increase the efficiency of oil shale retorting, several co-pyrolysis processes have been proposed and tested.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/news_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN_86_4051709,00.html
Posted By: Hrothgar Geiger

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/10/08 01:16 AM

That would be after about 12 years of operation.
Posted By: Bimmer

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/10/08 01:57 AM

Oh gee thanks!

It made no mention of that in TFA, so appreciate you clearing that up for me!

It is interesting that out of all the possible solutions that were mentioned in TA, the only one you seem to have a problem with is the Oil Shale.

So, does Barbie think that we should drill in ANWR? Montana? The Gulf of Mexico???
Posted By: Hrothgar Geiger

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/10/08 02:03 AM

Does Buffy believe that we're not drilling in the Gulf of Mexico?
Posted By: Bimmer

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/10/08 02:13 AM

Originally Posted By: AML-Barbarian
Does Buffy believe that we're not drilling in the Gulf of Mexico?


Well now someone would have to be stupid to think that!

What he said was that we are not allowed to do anymore exploration for oil in the Gulf.

Oh and he also said that the US has not been allowed to sign anymore leases for drilling in the Gulf, but China, Venezuela and Cuba are.
Posted By: GuitarDude

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/10/08 02:23 AM

Originally Posted By: AML-Barbarian
That would be after about 12 years of operation.


And if we had started production a mere 12 years ago...

But it's not an easy or overnight fix, so liberals and environmentalists aren't interested. Plus, there would be one less source of fuel for the Obamessiah's smokescreen of "change."
Posted By: Hrothgar Geiger

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/10/08 11:47 AM

Originally Posted By: Bimmer
Originally Posted By: AML-Barbarian
Does Buffy believe that we're not drilling in the Gulf of Mexico?


What he said was that we are not allowed to do anymore exploration for oil in the Gulf.

Oh and he also said that the US has not been allowed to sign anymore leases for drilling in the Gulf, but China, Venezuela and Cuba are.


That would come as quite a surprise to the US petroleum industry.
Offshore 2008 Gulf of Mexico Map

You can also search new permits, leases and applications at rigzone.com. Not that you will....
Posted By: Hrothgar Geiger

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/10/08 11:53 AM

Originally Posted By: GuitarDude
Originally Posted By: AML-Barbarian
That would be after about 12 years of operation.


And if we had started production a mere 12 years ago...

But it's not an easy or overnight fix, so liberals and environmentalists aren't interested. Plus, there would be one less source of fuel for the Obamessiah's smokescreen of "change."


Uh huh. Actually, oil shale projects were started in the 70's during the last oil scare. Companies invested a lot of money, and lost a lot of money when oil prices declined.

There are currently 10 'pilot' or 'testing' sites scattered throughout Colorado and Utah.
Posted By: straw

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/10/08 04:01 PM

The fundamentals put oil at an inflation neutral price of about $80 per barrel, which is high but not an economic drag on the economy.

If the dollar was to return to historically normal trading levels, oil would return to more normal levels.

That and the fact that the US economic slowdown will ease demand both here and in China, and the whole world is ending scenario will clear up.

Of course, even if oil goes down, gas might not follow suit, as refining capacity is at maximum, no new refineries are scheduled, at all, anywhere in the country (and haven't been since the 70's) and gas supply will remain tight, increasing to scare over the next decade.

When oil prices ease, the next wave of the fight will be over refineries.
Posted By: Hrothgar Geiger

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/10/08 04:11 PM

You know we import about a third of our gasoline from Canada, the U.K., the Netherlands, Aruba and Russia, right? US refining capacity (South Dakota just approved zoning for a new refinery, by the way.) is *an* issue, but not *the* issue.
Posted By: straw

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/10/08 04:16 PM

It will become the issue when oil prices recede. And no, I didn't know about the SD refinery. How they slip that one past the greens?
Posted By: B_F

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/10/08 04:16 PM

Did Chuck Norris really write that? I didn't know he could spell anything that didn't end in KO.
Posted By: Bimmer

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/10/08 04:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Bengalsfan
Did Chuck Norris really write that? I didn't know he could spell anything that didn't end in KO.


Yup he really did. Click on the link at the bottom, it will take you to the actual column.


I guess it would have a bigger impact with this group if Bob Barker wrote it though.
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/10/08 05:52 PM

we will increase production and capacity to refine after November, the democrats are stalling everything so they can take credit for the solution

a windfall profits tax will increase the price and consumers will pay more just as we did in the 70's

and we need permits to drill for the easy to reach natural gas off Florida's coast, don't you agree AML- B ?
Posted By: Sound Tactic

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/10/08 06:02 PM

It is sad that we have become this partisan.
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/10/08 06:07 PM

Originally Posted By: AML-Barbarian
You know we import about a third of our gasoline from Canada, the U.K., the Netherlands, Aruba and Russia, right? US refining capacity (South Dakota just approved zoning for a new refinery, by the way.) is *an* issue, but not *the* issue.



before we scream with delight, lets remember the unholy hords of enviro lawyers lining up to tie up the permiting process for untold years to come on this new refinery - I am thinking I will assume room temperature before this plant goes into production
Posted By: MB Guy

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/10/08 06:08 PM

I emailed Crist today about his opposition to allow off-shore drilling in FL.

http://www.wmbb.com/gulfcoastwest/mbb/news.apx.-content-articles-MBB-2008-06-09-0013.html
Posted By: Hrothgar Geiger

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/10/08 06:27 PM

good for you.
Posted By: MB Guy

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/10/08 06:36 PM

Thanks buddy!
Posted By: TheManofSteel

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/11/08 08:26 PM

Just saw on Fox news that the Dummocrats voted down yet anohter proposed legislation by the Repubs to drill offshore. Y'all know who you have to thank for your high gas prices.
Posted By: Hated By Some

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/11/08 08:31 PM

Quote:
Y'all know who you have to thank for your high gas prices.

yes. china and india.
Posted By: Blade Scrapper

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/11/08 08:45 PM

How much oil would ANWR be producing had we been allowed to drill by The Greatest President Ever?
Posted By: Hated By Some

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/11/08 08:51 PM

Originally Posted By: Smelly Cat
How much oil would ANWR be producing had we been allowed to drill by The Greatest President Ever?

what kind of discussion on race would we be having if the south won the civil war?

(seems about as relevant, no?)

so what do we do *now*? spend resources chasing something that is not going to make much of an impact on the supply/demand curve in the long term and especially in the short term when the effect both economically and psychologically is greater or put those resources to finding a way to ween ourselves off of oil?
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/11/08 08:53 PM

I heard a joke recently that Clinton must have been in the pocket of big oil to veto the ANWR bill, because the oil industry would have been getting only $30 a barrel for so long rather than the $130 they can now get
Posted By: MB Guy

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/11/08 08:55 PM

Ron, do you know how long it's going to take to wean ourselves off oil? It won't happen in our lifetime.

We need to find alternatives, but we need oil now, and even in the next 5, 10, 15+++ years.
Posted By: TheManofSteel

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/11/08 08:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Smelly Cat
How much oil would ANWR be producing had we been allowed to drill by The Greatest President Ever?

It really suks Cat. Even if it does take years to get at that oil, by passing the legislation necessary to drill offshore, or even in ANWR (which my outdoorsmen side is still queasy about, but citizen's budget's are important too, people gotta live), the financial markets would likely make adjustments in anticipation of the increased supply.

These morons in the congress need to stop drinking the environmental extremist koolaide
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/11/08 08:56 PM

you are joking right Ron? We are not going to get "off" oil and natural gas for 50 years, under the best research, so why not use what are the most efficient and currently available resources until we can be properly weened?
Posted By: TheManofSteel

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/11/08 08:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Pale Rider
you are joking right Ron? We are not going to get "off" oil and natural gas for 50 years, under the best research, so why not use what are the most efficient and currently available resources until we can be properly weened?


???AOLI????
Posted By: Blade Scrapper

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/11/08 09:01 PM

The area to drill in ANWR is tiny compared to the vast size of the reserve, kind of like your neighborhood's subdivision compared to your state.
Posted By: Hated By Some

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/11/08 09:01 PM

Originally Posted By: MB Guy
Ron, do you know how long it's going to take to wean ourselves off oil? It won't happen in our lifetime.

We need to find alternatives, but we need oil now, and even in the next 5, 10, 15+++ years.

ah, so that we can feed the unmet and still growing demand of china, india et al? are we going to close us shop and be totally self-sufficient in terms of oil?

or will supplying energy (thermodynamics) from other sources like wind, solar and nuclear make a bigger impact?

face it, we are not going to drill our way out of a problem. i guess these myopic populist ideas help mollify the conservative base...
Posted By: straw

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/11/08 09:01 PM

I thought it was Bush and Cheney?
Posted By: MB Guy

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/11/08 09:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
ah, so that we can feed the unmet and still growing demand of china, india et al? are we going to close us shop and be totally self-sufficient in terms of oil?

or will supplying energy (thermodynamics) from other sources like wind, solar and nuclear make a bigger impact?

face it, we are not going to drill our way out of a problem. i guess these myopic populist ideas help mollify the conservative base...


No, let's give up now. Throw in the towel, stop processing any and all crude oil in the US until we can get those windmills up and running, the solar panels made and installed, and nuclear reactors built.

I imagine you wouldn't mind riding your bicycle to deliver the pizzas instead of your Gremlin.
Posted By: TheManofSteel

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/11/08 09:13 PM

Quote:
I imagine you wouldn't mind riding your bicycle to deliver the pizzas instead of your Gremlin.


Quote of the Day dude!!!
Posted By: Hated By Some

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 01:26 PM

Quote:
No, let's give up now.

so now fighting a strategic battle is giving up? i'm not big on doing things for the sake of doing them. 1) how soon will we realize the benefits of the drilling? 2) who is really going to benefit? do you think that it is consumers/the economy? is this the classic "the success of the oil industry will pull the economy along!" argument?

too bad we are in the middle of a textbook refutation of that argument.
Posted By: Hated By Some

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 01:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Green Lantern
Quote:
I imagine you wouldn't mind riding your bicycle to deliver the pizzas instead of your Gremlin.


Quote of the Day dude!!!

i do think that the wayne's world gremlin would be a sweet ride. too bad i ride the subway everyday.
Posted By: Jokerman

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 01:51 PM

Ron, the estimates I've seen are somewhere in the 7-10 year range for realizing benefits from ANWR. By my count, you've already been in post-secondary school for seven years, and have gone back for a couple more. Does that mean it was a stupid decision for you to go to start school lo those many years ago?

I really don't even see how that's a feasible argument. There may not be an immediate solution, but there is something we could do long-term that would make things better - and by your logic, the fact that it's not immediate means we shouldn't even start? Build a highway to help solve congestion?! What, are you nuts?! That won't help anything for five years!!! ...or... Exercise and diet?! Why, that's going to take time! I want something that will solve all my problems immediately. And don't tell me that there's nothing I can do immediately - because if there's not, I'd prefer to do nothing!!!

I think, for all their willingness to capitalize on the trouble it's causing and blame Bush for it, leftists really aren't at all upset that energy prices are higher - why would they be?
Posted By: Peepers

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 02:08 PM

Homer Simpson when he read the instructions for heating something up in the microwave - 30 seconds? Ooooohhhhhhh, but I want it now!.
Posted By: Hated By Some

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 02:09 PM

Quote:
but there is something we could do long-term that would make things better

i think the long term writing is on the wall though! we can add more aggregate supply but aggregate demand is simply going to be the controlling force and swallow that extra demand whole.

strategically, this wake up call should be about allocating resources for the next step.

fwiw, i do like having an excuse to ride the subway. and i don't blame bush at all. i owe the rise in prices/demand to the world economy; china and india in paticular.
Posted By: Jokerman

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 02:19 PM

Ron, there are two sides to the supply/demand equation. You can say all you want that it's not that much, but it's something, and it would certainly result in lower, not higher, prices. If it's not that much, why are you so concerned that oil companies might make money off it? It's not that much, after all.

BTW, nice shift from the time involved to the marginal impact argument.
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 02:24 PM

While energy "independence" is an impossible dream, there's no doubt the U.S. has vast undeveloped fossil-fuel deposits. A tiny corner of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge contains an estimated 10.4 billion barrels of oil and would be the largest producing oil field in the Northern Hemisphere. Yet the Senate blocked that development as recently as last month. The Outer Continental Shelf is estimated to contain some 86 billion barrels of oil, plus 420 trillion cubic feet of natural gas. Yet of the shelf's 1.76 billion acres, 85% is off-limits and 97% is undeveloped.

Engineers recently perfected refining solid shale rock into diesel or gas, which may amount to the largest oil supply in the world – perhaps as much as 1.8 trillion barrels in the American West. That's enough to meet current U.S. oil demand for more than two centuries. Yet as late as 2007, Democrats attached a rider to the energy bill that prohibits leasing the federal interior lands that contain at least 80% of America's oil shale. The key vote was cast by liberal Senator Ken Salazar from Colorado, of all places.


----excerpted from the WSJ Online.....
Posted By: Hrothgar Geiger

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 02:31 PM

And yet 6 of the 10 oil-shale test/pilot plants operating in the US today are located in Colorado...
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 02:37 PM

Pay no attention to who is causing the real problems.

ANWR Exploration
House Republicans: 91% Supported
House Democrats: 86% Opposed

Coal-to-Liquid
House Republicans: 97% Supported
House Democrats: 78% Opposed

Oil Shale Exploration
House Republicans: 90% Supported
House Democrats: 86% Opposed

Outer Continental Shelf (OCS) Exploration
House Republicans: 81% Supported
House Democrats: 83% Opposed

Refinery Increased Capacity
House Republicans: 97% Supported
House Democrats: 96% Opposed
Posted By: Hated By Some

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 04:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Jokerman
Ron, there are two sides to the supply/demand equation. You can say all you want that it's not that much, but it's something, and it would certainly result in lower, not higher, prices. If it's not that much, why are you so concerned that oil companies might make money off it? It's not that much, after all.

BTW, nice shift from the time involved to the marginal impact argument.

j, with futures increasing by the day, you are convinced that we've found the equilibium price? sorry, but this is totally demand driven. the supply we add won't do much to stop it either. so, no, i am not convinced that it will "certainly" result in lower prices in any meaningful way. my concern isn't over the oil companies profiting, it is them profiting at the cost of consumers and the entire economy.

the "shift" relates to both points i've discussed here in this thread. i wasn't trying any funny business or anything.
Posted By: Hated By Some

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 04:15 PM

oh, so while i (and others) are making arguments as to why the "drill drill drill" isn't to answer that it seems to be to the myopic, these are disregarded because republicans are omnipotent?

come on, pale.
Posted By: straw

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 04:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
Originally Posted By: Jokerman
Ron, there are two sides to the supply/demand equation. You can say all you want that it's not that much, but it's something, and it would certainly result in lower, not higher, prices. If it's not that much, why are you so concerned that oil companies might make money off it? It's not that much, after all.

BTW, nice shift from the time involved to the marginal impact argument.

j, with futures increasing by the day, you are convinced that we've found the equilibium price? sorry, but this is totally demand driven. the supply we add won't do much to stop it either. so, no, i am not convinced that it will "certainly" result in lower prices in any meaningful way. my concern isn't over the oil companies profiting, it is them profiting at the cost of consumers and the entire economy.

the "shift" relates to both points i've discussed here in this thread. i wasn't trying any funny business or anything.


No credence to the dollars declining value causing part of the price spike?

And time to develop new oil fields is a concern, but time to develop alt energy sources is no problem?

Any return on alt sources won't come for a decade, so therefore, according to Ron, why bother.
Posted By: Hated By Some

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 04:30 PM

no credence because the demand forces are much greater than the exchange rate forces here.

the time isn't the concern (i mentioned time because people are clamoring for drilling as a solution when it will provide no immediate relief). the concern is about the writing on the wall.

Quote:
Any return on alt sources won't come for a decade, so therefore, according to Ron, why bother.

did they teach you this logic at cuny law? alt energy in 10 years means far less reliance on oil. drilling to get supply increases which show no sign of finding an equilibrium price due to the rate at which demand will continue to climb is simply prolonging this vicious cycle but now with 10 years of investment in oil instead of something to transition away from oil.

the economics are trying to lead us to a solution but you and your ilk's stubborness/pigheadedness is clouding your analysis.
Posted By: straw

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 04:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
no credence because the demand forces are much greater than the exchange rate forces here.

the time isn't the concern (i mentioned time because people are clamoring for drilling as a solution when it will provide no immediate relief). the concern is about the writing on the wall.

Quote:
Any return on alt sources won't come for a decade, so therefore, according to Ron, why bother.

did they teach you this logic at cuny law? alt energy in 10 years means far less reliance on oil. drilling to get supply increases which show no sign of finding an equilibrium price due to the rate at which demand will continue to climb is simply prolonging this vicious cycle but now with 10 years of investment in oil instead of something to transition away from oil.

the economics are trying to lead us to a solution but you and your ilk's stubborness/pigheadedness is clouding your analysis.


You and your ilk - I just love the pseudo intellectual, I am smarter than you connotation that it implies.

As for exchange rate pressures, how much has the price of gas gone up in Europe over the last 12 months?
Posted By: Hated By Some

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 04:42 PM

there's nothing pseudo-intellectual there. i think it is a funny saying (i used to watch PTI all the time).

straw, i havent been following european gas prices. if you are going to make a case that exchange rate pressures are on par with supply/demand and want to make that argument based on european gas prices, i'd like to see this analysis/model of yours complete with your assumptions including eurpoean consumption habits/transportation proclivities.
Posted By: rainman

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 04:45 PM

Quote:
straw, i havent been following european gas prices. if you are going to make a case that exchange rate pressures are on par with supply/demand and want to make that argument based on european gas prices, i'd like to see this analysis/model of yours complete with your assumptions including eurpoean consumption habits/transportation proclivities.


translation: I have no factual basis for my arguments, but I will require factual proof for yours.
Posted By: straw

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 04:47 PM

Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
there's nothing pseudo-intellectual there. i think it is a funny saying (i used to watch PTI all the time).

straw, i havent been following european gas prices. if you are going to make a case that exchange rate pressures are on par with supply/demand and want to make that argument based on european gas prices, i'd like to see this analysis/model of yours complete with your assumptions including eurpoean consumption habits/transportation proclivities.



Thanks, I'll take that as your usual gibberish for Ron not knowing what the heck I am talking about.

Perhaps you should go learn about exchange rates and their impacts on commodity prices as part of your MBA.
Posted By: Hated By Some

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 04:48 PM

Originally Posted By: rainman
Quote:
straw, i havent been following european gas prices. if you are going to make a case that exchange rate pressures are on par with supply/demand and want to make that argument based on european gas prices, i'd like to see this analysis/model of yours complete with your assumptions including eurpoean consumption habits/transportation proclivities.


translation: I have no factual basis for my arguments, but I will require factual proof for yours.

omg, rainier, supply and demand needs to be supported?! google "oil supply and demand".
Posted By: Hated By Some

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 04:51 PM

Quote:
erhaps you should go learn about exchange rates and their impacts on commodity prices as part of your MBA.

well, i have learned that the economic forces of supply and demand are a quite a bit more powerful than exchange forces and arbitrage.

seriously, that's fine that you think that the escalating oil prices are a function of exchange rates...
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 04:54 PM

The price of crude oil would fall precipitously if the United States would announce the following:

-exploration and drilling for oil and natural gas would be allowed in and on all onshore and offshore lands and territories of the USA,

-coal to oil refineries, such as SASOL in South Africa, and shale oil recovery would be encouraged and allowed,

-building of nuclear (where adequate cooling water is available), coal and/or natural gas power plants would be accelerated,

-government support programs for ethanol would end,

-under recent proposed legislation allowing the Justice Department to sue OPEC countries for restricting oil production the Justice Department is prepared to sue Congress.

The propaganda story that Brazil achieved energy independence by introducing ethanol is false as Brazil explored and drilled their way to energy independence in 20 years and the USA needs to start exploring and drilling now.
Posted By: Hated By Some

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 04:58 PM

Quote:
The price of crude oil would fall precipitously if the United States would announce the following:

may i see your model?
Posted By: straw

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 04:59 PM

Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
Quote:
erhaps you should go learn about exchange rates and their impacts on commodity prices as part of your MBA.

well, i have learned that the economic forces of supply and demand are a quite a bit more powerful than exchange forces and arbitrage.

seriously, that's fine that you think that the escalating oil prices are a function of exchange rates...


If you go read what I said, it was that part of the price rise is attributable to the dollar's declining value. How much is a matter of argument, but it is inarguable that a portion of the price rise is a function of the dollar's declining value, just as was the case in the 70's.

But I know it is too complicated for you to consider more than one variable at a time in any argument.
Posted By: Hated By Some

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 05:05 PM

woah! i said effectively that exchange rates are a subordinate factor to the issue! man, you are grasping at straws, bro.

ask the spaniards how sweet that favorable euro-for-gas rate is treating them...
Posted By: straw

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 05:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
Quote:
The price of crude oil would fall precipitously if the United States would announce the following:

may i see your model?


Can we see your model regarding supply and demand curve, along with empirically based assumptions?
Posted By: straw

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 05:08 PM

Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
woah! i said effectively that exchange rates are a subordinate factor to the issue! man, you are grasping at straws, bro.

ask the spaniards how sweet that favorable euro-for-gas rate is treating them...


Can I see your model evidencing that exchange rates are a subordinate factor?
Posted By: straw

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 05:15 PM

Price Comparisons - Surveyed in May 2008

Local Currency per litre Euro cent per litre
Country Currency Unleaded Diesel Unleaded Diesel
Austria Euro - - 1.311 1.382
Belgium Euro - - 1.580 1.421
Finland Euro - - 1.517 1.407
Germany Euro - - 1.499 1.500
Greece Euro - - 1.228 1.365
Netherlands Euro - - 1.657 1.463
Italy Euro - - 1.370 1.344
Luxembourg Euro - - 1.296 1.301
Spain Euro - - 1.188 1.046
France Euro - - 1.466 1.438
Ireland Euro - - 1.169 1.175
Portugal Euro - - 1.394 1.269
Slovenia Euro - - 1.157 1.259


Price Comparisons - Surveyed in May 2006

Euro cent per litre
Unleaded Diesel
Austria Euro - - 1.10 1.03
Belgium Euro - - 1.39 1.11
Finland Euro - - 1.33 1.03
Germany Euro - - 1.31 1.12
Greece Euro - - 1.02 0.99
Netherlands Euro - - 1.48 1.11
Italy Euro - - 1.28 1.17
Luxembourg Euro - - 1.12 0.94
Spain Euro - - 1.07 0.97
France Euro - - 1.27 1.09
Ireland Euro - - 1.11 1.09
Portugal Euro - - 1.25 1.04


How can the prices per liter have only risen 20 euro cents from May 2006 to May 2008, while the price per gallon in US cents have sky rocketed?

And you will find consumption trends to be similar. But we know you will dismiss because it doesn't fit into your premise.
Posted By: Jokerman

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 05:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
j, with futures increasing by the day, you are convinced that we've found the equilibium price? sorry, but this is totally demand driven. the supply we add won't do much to stop it either. so, no, i am not convinced that it will "certainly" result in lower prices in any meaningful way.

The question is, will prices be higher or lower, relative to what it would otherwise be, when additional supply comes online. You know the answer, but it doesn't fit your policy prescription, so it must be wrong or irrelevant, somehow.

Quote:
my concern isn't over the oil companies profiting, it is them profiting at the cost of consumers and the entire economy.

How will consumers and the entire economy be worse off for drilling in ANWR?
Posted By: Hrothgar Geiger

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 05:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Pale Rider
The propaganda story that Brazil achieved energy independence by introducing ethanol is false as Brazil explored and drilled their way to energy independence in 20 years and the USA needs to start exploring and drilling now.


I don't know the source of the 'propaganda', but it wouldn't be Brazilians. Brazil still imports crude and other products (they use a fair amount of diesel, for example), so it would be difficult to claim 'energy independence.'

You underestimate the impact that ethanol has had in reducing the gasoline consumption. Virtually every light vehicle in Brazil is configured to use an ethanol-gasoline blend.

Ethanol production in Brazil took 30 years, and government subsidies to reach its current position. The most critical differences between ethanol production in Brazil and what is being done in the U.S. seem to escape many.

Ethanol in Brazil is made from sugar cane and the waste from sugar cane processing. Basically, sugar cane processing facilities have had the milling and distilling processes tacked on to the end of the sugar cane processing line.

Sugar cane gives a better bang for the buck than corn, ethanol-wise. And, the Brazilians aren't diverting their food crops to create ethanol. It's been integrated into their existing processing of cane.
Posted By: MB Guy

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 05:38 PM

Does anyone know how much more efficient using sugar cane is vs. using corn for ethanol?
Posted By: Peepers

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 05:46 PM

I'll shove some Fun Dip in my gas tank and get back to you.
Posted By: Hrothgar Geiger

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 05:55 PM

Originally Posted By: MB Guy
Does anyone know how much more efficient using sugar cane is vs. using corn for ethanol?


One measurement that is quoted is the ratio of energy obtained against the energy required to produce.
Sugar cane ethanol produces 8 to 10 times the energy required to make it.
Corn ethanol produces 1.3 to 1.6 times the energy required to make it.

Technically, sugar cane has a higher sugar content than corn (surprise) and distills more quickly. Corn has to have its carbohydrate content broken down into sugar first, then it can be distilled.
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 07:11 PM

our sugar beet industry will fight this, and they have a strong lobby, not to mention the unions
Posted By: Hrothgar Geiger

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 07:20 PM

the sugar beet industry will fight what?
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 07:25 PM

using sugar cane for anything!!!
Posted By: Jokerman

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 07:30 PM

No, they'd love to use sugar cane for everything, so long as it's legally required to be US-grown sugar cane.
Posted By: Hated By Some

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 10:31 PM

i'm sure your stats are credible but think of it this way: those prices are in $/liter and the effect of the increase is enough to cause spain to come to a screeching halt.

either way, if you want to believe that the majority factor in the price increase is exchange rates and not supply demand, be my guest.
Posted By: Hated By Some

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 10:36 PM

they would be marginally lower all things held equal and constant. but then, how much of a difference relative to the overall increase in prices? how does it compare with the aggregate demand decrease if we are using more alternatives at that time?

Quote:
How will consumers and the entire economy be worse off for drilling in ANWR?

the answer to this is implied above but if we are simply trying to cling to the oil-based status quo, the net economic loss is greater than an economy that is less dependent on oil.
Posted By: straw

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/12/08 11:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
i'm sure your stats are credible but think of it this way: those prices are in $/liter and the effect of the increase is enough to cause spain to come to a screeching halt.

either way, if you want to believe that the majority factor in the price increase is exchange rates and not supply demand, be my guest.


right, 20 euro cents per liter is about 65 euro cents per gallon. How much has gas gone up in two years? Or do you not want to look because as J posits, the answer does not conveniently fit into your predetermined conclusion?

You asked for stats, I present, you dismiss. Nothing new. Can at least return the favor and present stats showing supply and demand and the relation to price changes over the last two years?

Or is asking for data from you asking the impossible?
Posted By: Jokerman

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/13/08 02:31 AM

Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
they would be marginally lower all things held equal and constant. but then, how much of a difference relative to the overall increase in prices? how does it compare with the aggregate demand decrease if we are using more alternatives at that time?

Quote:
How will consumers and the entire economy be worse off for drilling in ANWR?

the answer to this is implied above but if we are simply trying to cling to the oil-based status quo, the net economic loss is greater than an economy that is less dependent on oil.

Amazing - you're stipulating that you want to restrict access to oil just so that we'll be forced to find something other than oil to do the same thing that oil can do. Perfectly logical to someone who believes that a command economy makes sense, I suppose.
Posted By: Pup

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/13/08 03:15 AM

Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
Originally Posted By: Green Lantern
Quote:
I imagine you wouldn't mind riding your bicycle to deliver the pizzas instead of your Gremlin.


Quote of the Day dude!!!

i do think that the wayne's world gremlin would be a sweet ride. too bad i ride the subway everyday.


I stopped reading this thread when I read this quote, because it seemed to be the only thing that I could actually take a solid stand on. The Wayne's World "Gremlin" was a "Pacer", not a "Gremlin".

Okay, on the subject of oil. We're in this mess because, as a country, we sat on our assets and did not drill or find more oil or what have you. So, it seems the popular thing to say now is that since it won't help us tomorrow or next year or significantly over the next 5 years, we should simply do nothing again? What a line of bull!! Let's actually look to the future a little bit here. If we would become self sufficient, we could actually look positively into the future and work toward better energy solutions instead of doing what we're doing now....which is finger pointing and crying about gas prices.

Either way, Garth drove a Pacer.
Posted By: Hated By Some

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/13/08 03:32 AM

Quote:
Perfectly logical to someone who believes that a command economy

i guess the tax and spend clause means nothing. this is a very specific control. you probably think an absolutely unfettered market is ok, too. (the problem is, you probably really do)
Posted By: Jokerman

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/13/08 03:36 AM

Freer is almost always better.
Posted By: Hated By Some

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/13/08 03:37 AM

Quote:
Let's actually look to the future a little bit here. If we would become self sufficient, we could actually look positively into the future and work toward better energy solutions

or we could suffer now for 15+ years, dam* the economic consequences of removing ourselves from that market and wait until the next consumption crisis has no alternative. then we'll really have to look.

look, restructure the tax and incentive structure for oilcos and i am also willing to allow drilling. why must it be one or the other?
Posted By: Hated By Some

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/13/08 03:39 AM

Quote:
Freer is almost always better.

what do you mean?
Posted By: Jokerman

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/13/08 04:18 AM

I mean, in almost every instance, consumers and producers are better off with less intervention by a government in their voluntary exchange of goods and services.
Posted By: TheManofSteel

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/13/08 04:30 AM

Originally Posted By: Jokerman
I mean, in almost every instance, consumers and producers are better off with less intervention by a government in their voluntary exchange of goods and services.


Emphasis on the bold section, because the statement will be twisted by you know who with contrary examples, to say as if you stated that there is never a reason for regulation.
Posted By: Hated By Some

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/13/08 01:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Jokerman
I mean, in almost every instance, consumers and producers are better off with less intervention by a government in their voluntary exchange of goods and services.

what does a generalization have to do with the inescapably escalating demand curve for oil? we can add more an more supply many years down the road but we are far from close of even seeing an equilibrium point now.

like i said, i'm really not in the "do no drilling camp", i am just trying to temper what i see as seat-of-the-pants, blind reaction. if we fix the tax and spend portion related to oil companies, their breaks and why they get incentives, i say go ahead and start bringing some supply on line... we can do this in much more eco-friendly ways than in the past. so, in effect, we are attacking the problem from 2 angles: oilcos are properly motivated to explore/utilize alternatives as a source of business, as this transition is happening, the increase in supply is help to mitigate the crunch as well.
Posted By: Jokerman

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/13/08 01:39 PM

Translation: I don't really understand the futures market and the fact that it is the market's measurement of where that demand curve is likely to be. I've realized I don't really have any way to support the argument I've been making, so I'll throw in some further unsupported mumbo-jumbo about tax breaks for oil companies and then bail.
Posted By: Hated By Some

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/13/08 01:44 PM

wow, j, i guess you believe in the perfectly efficient market. (the equilibrium point is changing daily and drastically!)

the support for my argument is economic and logical. either way, i guess we are done here.
Posted By: MB Guy

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/13/08 01:45 PM

Why is it the oil companies' responsibility to research new energy alternatives?
Posted By: Hated By Some

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/13/08 01:47 PM

it's not their responsibility. but, by way of incentives, they can choose to make it their responsibility and profit off of it in the future.
Posted By: straw

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/13/08 03:44 PM

Still waiting for your supply and demand data and price curve. Since it is so axiomatic, should have been pretty easy for you to produce the curves showing the correlation between the two.

Are you having trouble finding it? At least I was able to present some supporting evidence.

I'll take your ignoring the point as a concession. Thanks Ron.
Posted By: straw

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/13/08 11:01 PM

Next chapter in Ron's continuing education

In its monthly market report, the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries said oil's recent volatility "reconfirms the view that current price levels do not reflect supply and demand realities." The cartel also lowered its 2008 global demand forecast, saying it now expects demand to increase by 1.28 percent to an average of 86.9 million barrels per day, down from a previous forecast of 1.35 percent.

Analysts call oil's current wavering "range-trading," as traders await direction from a significant move in the dollar or change in supply-and-demand fundamentals.

Investors who bought commodities such as oil to protect against inflation when the dollar was falling tend to sell when the currency gains ground. Also, a stronger dollar makes oil more expensive to investors overseas.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080613/ap_on_bi_ge/oil_prices
Posted By: TheManofSteel

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/14/08 12:13 AM

Originally Posted By: straw
Next chapter in Ron's continuing education

In its monthly market report, the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries said oil's recent volatility "reconfirms the view that current price levels do not reflect supply and demand realities." The cartel also lowered its 2008 global demand forecast, saying it now expects demand to increase by 1.28 percent to an average of 86.9 million barrels per day, down from a previous forecast of 1.35 percent.

Analysts call oil's current wavering "range-trading," as traders await direction from a significant move in the dollar or change in supply-and-demand fundamentals.

Investors who bought commodities such as oil to protect against inflation when the dollar was falling tend to sell when the currency gains ground. Also, a stronger dollar makes oil more expensive to investors overseas.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080613/ap_on_bi_ge/oil_prices


Straw, how many times do I have to straighten you out about posting facts and flowing logical conclusions? This is a Ron-discussion for crying out loud
Posted By: Hated By Some

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/16/08 01:08 PM

Originally Posted By: straw
Still waiting for your supply and demand data and price curve. Since it is so axiomatic, should have been pretty easy for you to produce the curves showing the correlation between the two.

Are you having trouble finding it? At least I was able to present some supporting evidence.

I'll take your ignoring the point as a concession. Thanks Ron.

assuming that your argument that about the price escalation being a function or currency rather than demand, why include that to buttress an argument for drilling?
Posted By: Hated By Some

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/16/08 01:10 PM

why don't you get back to the "consulting" that you do (which apparently consists of posting ring-wing propaganda on a banker's website)?
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/16/08 01:11 PM

Quote:
i see as seat-of-the-pants, blind reaction


and since we all know that your view is the only one that matters, I'll call President Bush today and ask him to change, based on your comprehensive analysis...
Posted By: Hated By Some

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/16/08 01:12 PM

ask him to change what exactly?
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/16/08 02:23 PM

....see if he has change for a $5....
Posted By: TheManofSteel

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/16/08 02:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
why don't you get back to the "consulting" that you do (which apparently consists of posting ring-wing propaganda on a banker's website)?

Why don't you get back to your Marxists professors. You can share some slices of pizza with them from your delivery job.
Posted By: straw

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/16/08 03:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
Originally Posted By: straw
Still waiting for your supply and demand data and price curve. Since it is so axiomatic, should have been pretty easy for you to produce the curves showing the correlation between the two.

Are you having trouble finding it? At least I was able to present some supporting evidence.

I'll take your ignoring the point as a concession. Thanks Ron.



So first, you argued over whether there was any correlation between oil prices and currency value/inflation. Now, you are arguing that it is not germane to oil drilling. Can you at least acknowledge that you were wrong.

Here is some more education for you.

"Many investors buy commodities such as oil as a hedge against inflation when the dollar falls. Also, a weaker dollar makes oil less expensive to investors dealing in other currencies. Many analysts believe the dollar's protracted decline is a major factor behind oil's doubling in price over the past year."

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080616/oil_prices.html


assuming that your argument that about the price escalation being a function or currency rather than demand, why include that to buttress an argument for drilling?

By the way, still waiting for your empirical data showing oil price curve in relation to supply and demand. But I guess you can only challenge others for data, but for you, well, your arguments don't require any factual support.
Posted By: Hated By Some

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/16/08 04:14 PM

straw, i can certainly admit that i was not considering the currency factor in oil pricing. no problems there. thanks for the education!

at any rate, the debate is still over whether to drill or not to drill. i have given my opinion here that, yes, drilling certainly won;'t hurt as long as there is some tie to tax/spend incentivization for alternatives.
Posted By: TheManofSteel

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/16/08 04:25 PM

Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
straw, i can certainly admit that i was not considering the currency factor in oil pricing. no problems there. thanks for the education!

at any rate, the debate is still over whether to drill or not to drill. i have given my opinion here that, yes, drilling certainly won;'t hurt as long as there is some tie to tax/spend incentivization for alternatives.


Ron,when you state "tying tax incentives to alternatives" do you mean that the federal government should legislate tax breaks to oil co's and other corporations for that matter, that make auditable investments in non-fossil fuel research?
Posted By: Hated By Some

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/16/08 04:36 PM

yes
Posted By: TheManofSteel

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/16/08 04:46 PM

That I am very much onboard with. That would be a beneficial use of government for stimulating the free markets to come up with the solutions to the problems with fossil fuel. This is not dissimilar to the idea I posted months ago for the federal and state governments to offer tax incentives to companies that set up employees to work from home that are able to, at least periodically. This would help stimulate the home-based technology sector, decrease medical costs over time due to decreased stress from miserable commutes, decrease fuel consumption and pollution, and give the audit industry a new set of regs/pols/procs to conduct periodic audits of, so that sector would also benefit over time.
Posted By: Hated By Some

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/16/08 04:55 PM

good to see that we can agree on something. i dunno about the "home-based" gov't though (first i've heard of it. seems like there could be some merit but it also sounds like the "fat homer" simpson's episode where he has a drinking bird toy running the power plant).
Posted By: TheManofSteel

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/16/08 05:10 PM

Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
good to see that we can agree on something. i dunno about the "home-based" gov't though (first i've heard of it. seems like there could be some merit but it also sounds like the "fat homer" simpson's episode where he has a drinking bird toy running the power plant).


Hypotehtical at this point, but it makes sense that if we start to shift to a workforce that conducts alot of responsibilites from a home office, we would need the means of setting up processing functionality in addition to just laptops and printers, for various types of employment.
Posted By: straw

Re: Congress, get off your gas, and drill! - 06/16/08 05:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
straw, i can certainly admit that i was not considering the currency factor in oil pricing. no problems there. thanks for the education!



Somehow I think you will forget this lesson shortly though.