NBA Finals

Got to go to Game 1 of the NBA Finals last night! Thunder Up!!

There were a number of celebs in the audience! A number of muy importante BOLers.

Is anyone supporting the Heat?

Go HEAT!!!
Last night they were Thunderstruck!!

I heard that the only Heat supporters are from Florida and Washington!

Nah, I'm a James fan, (wished he had stayed in Cleveland), but they wouldn't bring him in any help, so if he wanted a ring, he needed to move.

All I know is that I'm currently growing a beard like James Harden!

Oklahoma is alive with Thunder Fever. How awesome that you got to go to the game QM. Next time you get tickets, could you please stop and pick me up? Pretty please? I am right on your way, you know.

Nothing like sitting at home watching and yelling "FEAR THE BEARD" right at the television. I tell you, we are flat goofy with excitement over this. I love the fact that the Miami players have even said that we are classy opponents.

I wonder what Seattle thinks......

QM - I'll can be waiting out there on HWY 51 tomorrow afternoon for you to pick me up for tomorrows game. What time? I'll pay for the gas.

they beat the Heat in the second half just as they did the Spurs, it's youth and high energy for a full game, no team does it better...

Won't have a chance for more tickets. These belong to the Bank President. He let employees put their names in a drawing and I got lucky! Also went to the Clippers game last March. Took my daughter then and took my son last night. He did find tickets available for Thursday on the row behind us in the same section selling for $2,180 each. You buy the tickets and "I" will pay for the gas! Ha!

If you haven't seen these, they are pretty good. Some local kids did them - a very talented family.

Beard like Harden

Came to Play

Call Him KD

The facial hair of Oklahoma City guard James Harden has been talked about all season and now it's the topic behind a group of Oklahomans latest music video entitled ‘Beard Like Harden.'

"We were eating at Pizza Hut watching the Thunder sweep the Mavericks and it was halftime and we went to leave and were listening to" Moves Like Jagger"." My friend Gary and his wife Abby, we were riding in their car and she just was joking around and sang beard like Harden instead of moves like Jagger so then Gary and I were just messing around and came up with a chorus. Then when I got home I just sat down and wrote the rest of the song," said Daniel Castor.

Daniel, along with his siblings Chris and Bobbi Castor singers are all featured in the video alongside friends Zach Jackson, Sterling Parks, Gary Babb and Jordan Wilson who are all from Woodward.

"We love to watch and we all play basketball and are really awful so we thought it would be fun to just make a video of it and we all really like Harden so we thought that would be a great song to parody," said Chris who along with the rest of the crew all admire the massive five o'clock shadow Harden has grown.

"Daniel wrote the majority of the song and then we came along and helped him tweak it," said Chris who worked with his sister Bobbi to sing the main vocals.

I'm very lucky to have friends with season tickets so I've been able to attend several playoff games. I'm hoping ::praying hands:: to go Thursday.

That is the biggest load of bull. James is a crybaby... always has been, always will be... he can't win a ring because he can't close games, chokes at the end, then goes on to blame it on the rest of the team... Wins 60+ games and has the best record in the league with Cleveland during the regular season, then loses in the playoffs because he dooesn't show up when it counts. He QUIT in the middle of the playoffs vs the Celtics in his last year in Cleveland, laid down and quit mid-series.

What happened game one? Durant in the 4th quarter - 17 points... James - 7 points on 2 of 6 shooting.

What did James do in the championship last year vs Dallas in their 6 game series? Averaged 3 points per game in the 4th quarter.

James is full of excuses and loves to pass the buck, but at the end of the day the only one to blame is himself for not coming through when needed.

<<< makes note to get new friends

aren't there 4 other guys on the court with him during the game? I fail to see how any 1 person can be responsible for a loss.

Sure are 4 other guys, and all 5 guys on the floor have their role. James' role as being the superstar and superior scorer is to score when the team needs points down the stretch. He fails in his role, hence why his team never wins a champsionship.

Just like it is the closer's role in baseball to close the game out when called in from the bulpen, it is James' role to close the game out when it is on the line.

of course, if the other 4 guys played defense throughout the game, and didn't allow their man to score, and made all their shots, and made all their freethrows, then it wouldn't fall on "1 guy" to have to pull it out and win in teh last second...

the greatest teams have everyone contribute. I can recall games in finals where Jordan and Bryant had off nights, one Kobe only scored 2 points in the 4th quarter, but their teams still found a way to win. That's what the Heat needs to do. If their game plan is to keep it close and then rely solely on James to win it, it is a poor gameplan.

LOL..

and now I get to start all over in PA. Maybe I'll make friends with some Steeler fan!!

Thanks Happy for taking up the argument. I thie BtB is the one spreading the Bull. Even Jordan couldn't win the championship until quality players were added to the team. LJs has never had good team mates until moving South.

Ofcource until he wins a ring he will never be called a great player.

It takes a team to win a game, but one guy can lose a game.
- A. Nonnemus

Good luck, I've been looking for friends with Steeler tickets for 40 years.... Now Pirate tickets, no problem!

Pirate tickets they can not give away.

Actually, they've been on a streak as of late. They were tied for first place in their division last week and are only 2 games back right now. They had over 30,000 in attendance last Friday I heard.

My firewall is getting me but it appears that the home attendance is tied for last for the first 9 games of the season.

THUNDER UP!!!!

EXACTLY, LeBron needs everyone else to play top notch in order to win. He can't take over a game and put the team on his back. He can't take a game where his team is in position to win and close it out on the big stage.

Jordan and Bryant were money in the 4th quarter... sure not 100% of the time but 9 times out of 10 in the 4th quarter they score when they are needed to. I'm not just talking about 1 shot, I am talking the end of the game in its entirety when they are relied on, not just the last possession.

LeBron does not step up when his team needs him to. He just doesn't. 3 points per game in the 4th quarter throughout 6 finals games is embarassing. It is not just a 1 game fluke, it is a consistent problem.

A true NBA great and true legend makes his own legacy and comes through when called on. A true legend is clutch. LeBron up to this point in his career has not shown the ability to do that and until he does he will never be a true all-time great.

For now LeBron and his supporters will just have to blame everyone around him because they refuse to look at him if there is a problem. When your responsibility is to close the game, when your responsibility is to lead your team and put them on your back for a stretch and you can't do that - don't blame the team.

What you are saying is exactly what I am saying - LeBron cannot be relied on to win a champsionhip. You need everyone around him to do it for him. He's just another guy that is talented, not a true all-time great.

I think you can say that KD stepped up in the 4th quarter and helped his team to a victory. 17 points!

Absolutely! Durant is showing LeBron first-hand what being the leader of your team and clutch-play is about.

I'll never forget a few years ago LeBron was having a party mid-season and invited Durant. Durant turned down his invite and people thought it was a diss to LeBron. But Durant stated he did not attend LeBron's party because he does not go out the night before a game. Durant -- all business leader with the killer instinct and ability to shut the door.

I think OKC will win. Most likely it will go 6 or 7 no matter which team wins, but I would not be surprised if OKC shut it down in 5.

FEAR THE BEARD!

a guy averaging over 30 points per game...i'd say he's doing his job, it's the rest of the team that is letting them down. when you put up those types of numbers, it shouldn't have to come down to 1 shot...

i hope OKC wins, because of the hype about the "big 3" in Miami...no one has given OKC a chance all year, they've been the underdog, and who can't help but pull for an underdog.

who can't help but pull for an underdog/

Simon Bar Sinister

I think Harden and Brett Keisel from the Steelers should have a beard challenge....

if they had a kid would it be named Rosie O'Donnell?

We are doing our part here today. Popcorn, nuts, candy bars and sugar cookies with blue icing. We eat game-time snacks to get us in the spirit. If you wear a Thunder (or bank) shirt you can wear jeans on game day. I have neither so I am in my regular work wear.

sounds like an excuse to eat to me...if your team is in the final, you shouldn't have to eat to get in the spirit...

Yep, actually we don't need an excuse but it makes us feel better. I am new to the State so my loyalty to the team isn't as strong as most peoples. Too bad KC never got a team.

Too bad KC never got a team.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacramento_Kings

I mean in current times. We built a big arena and there is no professional team there.

GO HEAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where back to Miami without the championship?

well, I am truly confused...Lebron James, who we learned yesterday must have an explosive 4th quarter in order for the Heat to have any chance, scored a mere 8 points in the 4th, not even close to explosive. Although he was game high with 32, the same number as teh worlds greatest superstar in the Finals named Kevin Durrant And yet, the Heat won.

Of course, the team effort put forth by the Heat throughout the game, with 5 players scoring double figures, and one in double figures on blocks, clearly shows that a team effort will outperform a superstar performance by any 1 player, if that team is consistent with their play through the entire game.

It was certainly an entertaining game, and I think the no call where James clearly fouled with 11-seconds left denied OKC the chance to tie was wrong...

HG, I never said the Heat can't win or won't win. In fact, when I said I think OKC would win I left it open saying that "whoever wins I expect it to go 6 or 7 games"... Our debate was not whether the Heat can win the champsionship, but rather LeBron James as a player and how to this point he has not shown the ability to be the guy to lead his to to a ring. The comment that jump-started the debate was a comment on how James needed to leave Cleveland because he wasn't provided with good enough talent around him - a notion I strongly reject

James, Wade, Bosh with role players like Chalmers, Miller, Haslem, Battier is just ridiculous. It was a disappointment they didn't win last year, and if they don't win this year it will be a HUGE disappointment -- to the level people are discussing big changes in Miami whether it be breaking up the big 3, or changing coaches, etc.

So did Chicago. It's called Soldier Field.

Hopefully the Thunder learned that they have to come out strong in the first quarter. They made a great comeback, just fell a little short in the end. We have to take at least 1 in Miami now.

Yesterday there was a rally to get the team back.

the 18-2 start was difficult to overcome....

Come on everybody! Time to get your Thunder on!

I wonder what kind of crazy could be going on this weekend while we are in OKC...............................

Feeling the HEAT!!!

Oh Yeah!! The Heat is On, its on the Rise!!!

If you can't stand the Heat get out of the Kitchen.

The best thing the Heat can do is to keep riding Dwayne Wade at the end of the game.

I hope the Thunder pull this out, hopefully David Stern allows a level playing field.

duplicate thread?

kitchen

The keys victory: We (OKC) have to score more than they (Whyami) do, or they (Whyami) have to score less than we (OKC) do.

Oh yeah, it is ALL Wade :roll eyes emoticon:

WOW, that's what you got out of that sentence? That "its all Wade" LOL

And if would be nice if the refs would call a neutral game!

Mr Stern could claim that the heat has a bounty program suspend some players and not provide proof of involvement of said players. Sorry wrong sport ( sport = any activity such as board games except soccer)

It would also be nice if Kendrick Perkins had any basketball skills. I'm a big Thunder fan, but what Perkins brings to the table (other than 6 fouls a game) is beyond me. I guess i'm not smart enough to coach an NBA team because if i was, i'd have Nick Collison on the floor about 35 minutes a game and Perkins...about 3 (long enough to use up those fouls).

Nope, that is just the point to which I responded.

they have good omelets

Seriously though.....what good is Perkins against a team like the Heat? If Moses Malone was still in the NBA, yeah i guess he has some value playing defense against a banger in the low post. The only guys that are going to score consistently for the Heat in the low post are LeBron and D-Wade and if Perkins tries to guard them, he's out of the play by the time they get to the low post. To me, he's the classic example of someone that NBA people have just labelled a good player because he happened to be on the Celtics' championship team. If he were a fresh out of college player right now, his lack of any offensive skills would be hammered on constantly. But we're supposed to buy that Perkins is a "glue" type player....i don't buy it.

Perkins is there due to the NBA bounty program to cause injury to heat players notice the foul numbers.

Note the is placed at the end of the post as I do not believe that this is the case

honestly...with Lebron not scoring 800+ points in the 4th, I can't see how the Heat continue to win. Clearly there is a bias by officials to keep the Thunder down...

Two teams enter - 1 team leaves...(oh, sorry, wrong Thunder Dome)

irregardless I'm still growing the Harden beard...and so is MsGilmore

A co-worker said about Harden (and his beard): "he looks like a religious zealot"....i got a good laugh out of that.

I made no such point that "its all Wade", but whatever...


I never said the Heat won't win or can't win... I did not say LeBron did not play well... I am not asking for 800 points in the 4th quarter from LeBron, but dependability would be nice i.e. not passing up shots, missing horribly, or bricking important free throws. Wade is a much better clutch player and has proven in the past and current point in time - not afraid to shoot and can hit it when it counts.

As long as LeBron has someone else to rely on in the clutch, he will be fine because he can dominate the rest of the game.

I don't know why you guys keep harping and obsessing on defending LeBron's lack of clutch play... I guess someone has to since his clutch failures are well documented and widely discussed.

Heat can win because they have a more talented team, hence why they are favored to win... three superstars the caliber of Bosh, Wade, LeBron paired with great role players like Haslem, Battier, and Miller -- the only thing they are missing is a true center, but OKC has no offensive ability there so they can't take advantage of the Heat's largest weakness.

they need to penalize the floppers, like they do in soccer!

^^^^^The only good point you have made that I can agree with.


vvvvv does that sound familiar

Collison is under-utilized by OKC: he does nothing that hurts his team and almost everything he does helps his team. He's the one big man they have who can actually finish the pick and roll, he's a great passer off the pick and roll, he rebounds exceptionally well, plays great defense, can make an 18 footer but isn't in love with taking the shot, and he's just a heady player who doesn't have an ego.

now I'm hungry for an Eggo (or six)

Thanks for the insight Magic Johnson.

well, there is always next year OKC

Saying the Heat should ride Wade at the end does not mean it's "all Wade"... Did you watch the game last night? Once it got late, Wade controlled the offense, he brought the ball up, set the offense - everything ran through him.

If you want to believe that LeBron is a good clutch player, even though he has failed repeatedly in the big moment over the course of his career then you have a right to believe that he is a good clutch player and we will agree to disagree. You also have the right to believe in the Easter Bunny.

On another note... OKC really needs to get themselves together, they have not been doing themselves any favors -- Serge Ibaka should have kept his mouth shut, James Harden is having a brutal series, and Russell Westbrook continues to be a phenominal talent with glaring mental problems his foul on the jump ball was embarassing.

I'll still be pulling for OKC, but this series is pretty much over. They would be the first team in history to come back and win after being down 3-1 in the Finals.

I don't think Lebron is a clutch player...I think he is a 4 quarter player who contributes throughout the course of the game, which puts his team in position to win based on the entire team playing well. Same can be said for Wade, he contributes throughout the game. If you look at the historically great teams, they set themselves up to win based on playing an entire game, not just hoping to be close with less than a minute and putting all their marbles on 1 guy.

I thought thte commentators last night mentioned another team that was down 3-1 and came back to win? Admittedly, I was reading a book at the same time and not really paying attention...they may have been talking about an earlier playoff round, not the final.

Still feeling the HEAT!!!!!! Boy it's HOT in the MIA!!!!!

The chances are probably slim and perhaps none, but i really believe if the Thunder can somehow get the series back to OKC, anything can then happen. My biggest complaint last night: Westbrook absolutely carries them the entire night and suddenly at the 2:00 mark, the thinking becomes "get the ball to Durant, even if it's 28 feet from the goal"...????? I didn't get that thinking at all.....If it's been good for you the first 46 minutes, ride it the last 2....

RJ - clearly the OKC coach has been reading BtB's posts about clutch players!

Yesterday was the anniversary of possibly the greatest NBA draft in history...Olajuwon, Barkley, Jordan, Stockton...

I'm a big Durant fan, but clearly LeBron and some of the other Heat guys have created big problems for him.....he can't get to the rim. I just don't understand why when Westbrook has carried you all night and the Heat have nobody (at least last night) who could keep him from getting to the rim, you suddenly prefer to have Durant shooting 20 footers with a hand in his face.

AMEN Happy.

And i don't suppose Lebron's leg cramping had anything to do with his not bringing the ball up. Although he was still able to hit a clutch 3 in the 4th. But that was probably more luck than anything.

If you were watching, Wade was also running the offense before the cramp.

Yes, LeBron did hit a shot, but he also chucked up an air ball with a minute left - yes a complete air ball. Of course he will hit some shots, its not that he can't, its that he can't do it on a consistent basis and has proven time and time again he is not dependable in the clutch. But like Happy said, he is not clutch. I completely agree, and never said otherwise, that he can dominate the rest of the game.

Okay, Skip Bayless...

GO HEAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As much as I love my Thunder, I do believe that all the commentators, refs and anyone else with the NBA really want to see LeBron get his championship ring. Therefore, there is probably no chance that they will let the OKC Thunder win the series. With such a young team they are probably thinking they could come back and win it next year - let the old guys have one!

Well, all day long on BOL I hear how great Lebron is at this or how wonderful Lebron did that! Lebron, Lebron, Lebron!















Get is? Paraphrased from the Brady Bunch.

Still feeling the HEAT!!! and yes it getting very HOT here in the MIA!!!!!

Win or lose, for a bunch of guys 23 years old, they have done well!! We are proud of our Thunder!

I can't believe Kendrick Perkins had the gall to complain about his playing time. Actually do something productive on the floor maybe before you complain?

Since the beginning of the playoffs, I've wondered why Perkins ever started the game. I'd rather have no size and start DeQuan Cook than him.

Okay, so Nick Collison is the more logical choice, but I believe I've made my point.

So, Thunder in 7 then?

if it goes 9 games they have a shot

I'm not a pro basketball fan and have no idea where they are at with the playoffs...I wouldnt know OKC was in if it weren't for BOL and a couple OK friends on Facebook. That being said...I have a very important question...is there a game this weekend and WHERE is it to be played?

looks more like the Heat in 5...

" and a couple OK friends on Facebook"

if these friends are only OK why did you friend them in facebook in the first place?

Game tonite in Miami. IF OKC wins there will be a game in OKC (Sunday night i think?). And then possibly a game 7 Tuesday night or so.

I will be gone by Sunday. I can live with that. Saturday night would have been interesting.

RJ is correct.

Interesting doesnt even come close! With a playoff game downtown, the population is quadruple what it normally is! It is insanity! But the vendors and bars downtown are loving it.

Tickets for the games in OKC are coming in just short of an arm and a leg.

"Hey, there goes Mr. McCraig. The man with a leg for an arm and an arm for a leg" - Dr. Nick Riviera from The Simpsons

I was trying to be polite. I have NO desire to have that many drunk lunatics interfering with my plans that evening.

do not like the competition?

I am very glad that OKC is enjoying the huge boost in revenue! I am very glad that the Thunder is having an incredible season! I am very glad so many people enjoy it! I wear my Thunderwear to work!

I ain't goin down there!

Guess we'll have to find a bar to watch the game at on Sunday????

When a game is on, finding it on a TV is not a problem. There are places here that play it in their bathrooms.

Mens room or ladies room?

Anyone ever been in the men's room at Eddie Georges Grill in Columbus? Most awkward feeling ever! The wall behind the men's urinal is a one way mirror wall. From inside the bathroom you see out into the bar room. and there is a wall of table right next to the urinal wall. So when you are standing there relieving yourself you are within 2 feet from some people eating.

But you don't miss any of the game cause you can see all the tv's in the bar.

When you go out into the bar room and look at the wall, all you see it as a mirror, you cannot see into the bathroom.

Champs! James' triple-double lifts Heat to title


Some quotes from the article:

The decision is final: LeBron James made the right call coming to Miami.

Best player in the game, best team in the league.

The Heat took control in the second quarter, briefly lost it and blew it open again in the third behind their role players, James content to pass to wide-open 3-point shooters while the Thunder focused all their attention on him.
(The difference between James and other great players, James is a team player and uses his talent as a decoy and gets the ball to whoever is hot, other great players try to do it all)



That made it easier for James, the most heavily scrutinized player in the league since his departure from Cleveland, when he announced he was "taking his talents to South Beach" on a TV special called "The Decision" that was criticized everywhere from talk shows and water coolers straight to the commissioner's office. James has said he wishes he handled things differently, but few who watched the Cavaliers fail to assemble championship talent around him could have argued with his desire to depart. (I know one of the few, bTb)

Nothing they done could have stopped James, anyway.

HEAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yeah yeah yeah yeah, I'm so happy today. I love LeBron.

Thunder down!

Why is it when the Yankees win they bought the title with the Heat it is a team effort?

That's the first one for the Heat, it'll be interesting to see how many they end up with and if they can match Jordan or Kobe's 5 -- they should exceed it with the talent they have.

DD-That's one writer that provides an opinion on the talent in Cleveland, you can find many more that say the opposite. Cleveland was over the sal cap and could not sign free agents without exception rules, they won 66 games then 61 in his final two years. The team was built with role players around him to complement his and each other talents very well. I just have no respect for a guy that turns his back on his home-town as he is entering the prime of his career to take the easy road. Especially to a town like Miami, going from rabid sports-mania Cleveland to a could-care-less sports town like Miami.

Also, yes, LeBron is an excellent passer, however, he does not possess the awareness of when he needs to take the shot. He has passed up wide open shots in critical moments just to dish to someone else who was also open (Eddie House buzzer beater play most notorious) because he doesn't want to take the big shot. Also for more recent history you can look at the Celtics series, one of the OT games, Heat had last possession in the 4th with a tied game LeBron had the ball and drove and instead of taking a clean look with the pull-up jumper, he dished to a completely covered Udonis Haslem 20' deep who of course missed.

Our debate on James has nothing to do with how talented he is (at least in my opinion) the best and most complete player in the NBA -- rather it was sparked by the notion he could not win in Cleveland because of the team around him, a notion I strongly object as the blame lies with James' repeated failure in big moments.

We'll argee to disagree on the James.

Putting that aside... The Heat are a heck of a team and by far the most talented team in the NBA and the most talented team in ages, perhaps ever. This will not be their last championship. Factor in the Celtics no longer being a factor unless they do something big or find a gem in the draft, and the fact that Rose is not going to be ready for next year, they do not have any competition in the East right now so they should have a cakewalk to the finals next year as well.

The Heat are a heck of a team and by far the most talented team in the NBA and the most talented team in ages, perhaps ever

ever? in the 70's 80's the worst NBA team would be better.

Age old argument, how would (pick any team from 30 years ago, in any sport) do against the teams today?
Answer -
They would be devasted. The athletes today are bigger, stronger and faster by a huge amount. Every record and standard of measurment clearly shows it. I doubt that it would be much of a contest.
The guys from the past were tougher, and probably meaner, but that will only get you so far against a superior athlete.

My opinion only.

There was a thought process in bb back then not just brute force and foul ability.

I would match Celtics or Knicks against any team today. Chicago of the 90's as well.

but it is a different game and not worth watching.

I think this Heat Team needs a Solid big man center before they can be Great and repeat. If they were to sign Howard from the Magic, then they would run off about 4 or 5 more Championships.

I still think Magic Johnson is perhaps the greatest player in the modern era, he was at least the most versatile.

Celebrating in the streets of MIAMI until 3am with HEAT fever....

MIAMI HEAT 2012 NBA Champions!!!! 'nuff said

Bummed about the game last night, but I will say that, from what I saw in last night's game, the refs were fair. In fact, I saw at least one foul against the Heat that I thought should have been a "no call". This after definitely seeing so many situations that went against OKC that I felt were horrible calls.

That said, they were incredible to watch. Fluid in their ball movement like San Antonio but with more scorers to finish each possession than the Spurs possess.

Coming in, it was all James, Wade and Bosh, but Battier was scary at times, and they also had others stepping up all series (Miller last night, I believe).

All in all, congratulations to the Heat and I'm looking forward to a rematch in next year's Finals.

Heat were deserving champs, but the "flagrant" foul call against Fisher was one of the worst calls i've ever seen.

My thoughts on the NBA today. Watched a lot growing up, but lost interest somewhere along the way when it became a glorified dunk contest.

That being said, I'm sad because the Heat fans around here (at work, not on BOL) are DB's and I was hoping they'd lose just to shut those people up, and that there won't be a game going on this weekend to watch in OKC and enjoy the group energy.

Matt_B -- Heat "fans" are a joke. How many of these "fans" watched the Heat in the 90's? How many in the 00's other than their one run with Wade/Shaq? Next to none. And no, showing up at half-time does not count as watching.

Also, it's not that it has become a glorified dunk contest to me, but it is the fact that teams play for the foul rather than for the play. Players play to sell the call and get the foul to be on the foul line, or sell a call to draw an offensive fall to get the turnover, rather than making a play on the ball. That is the part that is of most annoyance. NBA has no one but itself to blame for it getting to that point.

It was such a pleasure to see the great sportsmanship between the two teams after the game...such a shame it doesn't transfer over... Like I said MIAMI HEAT 2012 NBA Champions!!! 'NUFF SAID.

For the record, I didn't watch NBA at all until the Thunder came to be, and I really only got into it this year after going to a late season game. I enjoyed hearing that our local team was doing well, but I've never been a basketball fan (as a wrestler, we were forbidden from even saying the word "basketball" with sprints being the punishment).

This year, we went to a game and I got to see the excitement first-hand. For a city that was debated as not being big enough, etc to support a professional team, OKC fans bring their everything to every game.

Durant is a class act. It's great to see the things that these players do in their community, how connected they allow themselves to be, and how genuine they are.

I'm truly a Thunder fan now, but I couldn't care less about the NBA up until this season. Hopefully, that doesn't make me a pseudo fan or a "joke" of a fan. :removes tongue from cheek:

Yeah, the fouls seem to be more of a roadblock to good basketball than anything else. I couldn't agree more, Bob.

I disagree too that teams from this era would destroy teams from the 70s or 80s. Athletes don't come any "freak"ier than Dominique Wilkins, Michael Jordan, Len Bias (RIP), etc. And basketball acumen doesn't come any more refined than what Magic, Bird, and Jordan had either.

^^^^ ditto.

I've yet to see any player that had the dominating effect of a Wilt Chamberlain. Anyone in the current era have any 50 or 100 point games?

I completely defer to you guys on basketball accumen. I know the round thing goes in the circle with the fishing net on it....

I just know athletes. Bigger, faster, stronger usually wins in the long run.
But not always.....

Don't forget Rodman! Pinnacle of athleticism and professionalism all rolled into one heck of a showman!

<Went to college with Rodman for a couple of years (he was an idiot then too).

Jockeys?
Car racing?
Soccer not a sport
Marathoning&#8206; ?

Jockeys? Faster wins when was the last time a 600 pound jockey won anything

Pat Valenzuela won a race just a few days ago.

What drugs were used PED's do not count.

is pat older than BBB?

His liver definitely is.

Actually this is the Heat's second championship.
Lebron is a Jordan wannabe and will never be like Mike. Bulls would have had 8 titles in a row withouth Michael leaving to play baseball. No way Heat win more than 6 championships, 3 at the very most. Hopefully Derrick heals fast. Bulls in 2014!

this is like saying "i could play basketball too if I was 6'7" tall and had athletic ability."

I'm not a LeBron fan, but you have to give the guy his due.....he definitely grew up a lot this year and he's phenomenonally talented. He's also a complete player: scorer, rebounder, defender, passer. The Heat are a scary team and LeBron is already one of the top 10 players of alltime.

Lebron may 1 day become one of the top 10 ever, but I don't think he is there yet...not even sure if he's cracked the top 25...

<waiting for Happy to give me the 25 players better than LeBron.

how about 50

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Greatest_Players_in_NBA_History

Um, that was in 1996...predating LeBron by a hair.

I'd put him in my starting 5 ( from my lifetime )

Magic
MJ
LBJ
Barkely
O'neal

and the listed are not better?

Kobe is not listed as well so that makes 51

Not all 50, no. Quick examples of guys on that list definitely not better than LeBron: Nate Archibald, Dave Cowens, Billy Cunningham, Dave DeBusschere, Hal Greer, Elvin Hayes, etc. etc.

Why better than them 1 season?

I vote for the Harlem Globtrotters! They have a song and a cartoon and everything!

Comparing a player from the 70s to what Lebron does today is totally subjective...like comparing Mark Spitz to Michael Phelps. If you think he is in the top 25, no list I provide will dissuade your belief. He's not in mine at this point, but he certainly could get there.

It is subjective, i just think there has to be some common ground......if someone wants to argue that say Karl Malone or John Havlicek was better than LeBron James, reasonable minds can disagree. Dave Cowens or Dave DeBusschere? Hard for me to fathom anybody seriously arguing that who saw those guys play and saw LeBron play. (Happy...not saying that was your argument.)

As a testament to his all-around ability, Cowens is one of only four players (Scottie Pippen, Kevin Garnett and LeBron James are the others) to lead his team in all five major statistical categories for a season: points, rebounds, assists, blocks, and steals. He accomplished the feat in the 1977-78 season

During his NBA career, Cowens averaged 17.6 points and 13.6 rebounds per game, was selected to seven All-Star Games, was named to the All-NBA Second Team three times, and was named to the All-NBA Defensive First Team in 1976 and All-NBA Defensive Second Team in 1973 and 1980. He was a member of the Celtics' 1974 and 1976 NBA Championship teams.

not to shabby.


As for Debusschere did you see who was on the teams with him and he still had a HOF career.

Wasn't denigrating Cowens...he was on my favorite team and i loved watching him play. In no way, shape, or form though did he have as big an impact on a basketball game (IMO) as LeBron does now. That's all. (ETA: the all-NBA 2nd team votes, not 1st team, tell a lot too.)

As for DeBusschere, yes, he was teammates with Willis Reed, Walt Frazier, Dick Barnett, Bill Bradley, etc. which is partially my point......it's hard for me to rank him in the top 25 greatest players when he was only the 3rd best player on his team.

you are forgeting Bill Bradley and Earl Monroe. tough to get the ball when all are playing well. and yet still avg over 16 over his career.

I mentioned Bradley......yeah Monroe too, although he wasn't there in the championship year of 70-71....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Basketball_Association_career_scoring_leaders

here is some more stats that list "King" James at 47 alltime scorre. Better than 50 but not top 25. He looks on paper as good as Elgin baylor

LOL that's career scoring leaders and he's what....26? You expect him to pass Wilt in his first 7 or 8 years?

Lebron started in 03 that make 9 years if he keeps it up for another 11 he should pass Jabbar. The point is that he is not the best Yet he has more time to go to be the best of all time.

I didn't say he's the best (i'm not even a fan), just that he's top 10 alltime and that imo it's silly to say guys like Cowens or DeBusschere were better.

who was it talking best ever?

?

This is what passes for exciting in the cooler these days.

no that is the book club thread

Why is it that I needed to look up the Len Bias story?

Very sad day.. That was the beginning of a bad period in Celtics history.

lets not forget pistol Pete...the greatest creative offensive talent in NBA history, still the holder of the NCAA scoring record (in 3 years with no 3-point line), averaged over 24 PPG in a 10-year NBA career...and has a higher field goal, 3-point, free throw, and assist percentages than lebron...

Pistol Pete was great and his scoring records in the college game will never be touched....but LeBron has a better FG pct. than Maravich (48.3 to 44.1)....and a better assist avg (6.9 to 5.4).

More useless facts (or truthes)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Basketball_Association_season_scoring_leaders

looking at a single stat lebron was not the best in the last 3 years.

A scoring leader isn't necessarily the best all-around basketball player.

So, the highest scoring player of all time isn't always the best player of all-time. He may be, but that's not the same thing.

This year, Durant was the scoring champion, his 3rd consecutive title. But James was the MVP. James is seen as the best all-around basketball player in the league while Durant is simply "in the discussion".

OAK made it to the finals with on paper no where near the talent as Miami. That in is self should say someting about the team and Durant.

it said they were 1st loser...

PS you can only get assists if you have someone other than youself who can put the ball in the net.

Ed, I'm as big a Thunder fan as you can find, but i disagree. Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka, and Harden are tremendously talented (young) players. For the Heat, i would say that James, Wade, and Bosh are tremendously talented players. After that, on both teams, you have a mix of good role players (for OKC: Collison, Sefalosha, Fisher; for Miami: Battier, Chalmers, Haslem, throw in Mike Miller if you want), then some very young guys and some not so good guys. I don't think there's much disparity, if any, between the two teams talent-wise. In my eyes, the Heat won because they were a more cohesive team (probably has at least something to do with the Thunder's youth and inexperience).

Wade and Bosh vs Westbrook and Ibaka the salaries do not reflect that fact.

you're right, I was looking on the wrong line...

of course, Lebron has also played in more games than Pistol...further skewing numbers and making an actual comparison next to impossible...

How is averaging more assists and a better FG pct. over MORE games skewing the pct?

Because Westbrook and Ibaka are young and haven't hit their peak-earning years yet like Wade and Bosh. If we're going to judge talent simply on pay though, there are lots of busts out there that we have to throw in the mix as "most" talented.

That and the fact that Pete passed away when Lebron was 4 yrs old.

What? Are you saying if Pete hadn't passed away, he'd still be playing or something? Pete would be like 65 or something now. Pete's death was tragic, but it's not as if it cut his playing career short......Pete was pretty much washed up his last couple of years with the Celtics. I do agree however that it's hard to compare Maravich and LeBron.....their games were totally different.

Westbrook and Ibaka can be compared to Wade and Bosh because they are young but James can not be compared to Chamberlain or Jordan because he is young?

Sure he can be compared to them.......when did i say he couldn't be compared to them? I just said it's pretty unrealistic to expect LeBron to be the alltime scoring leader at the age of 26....LOL.

It is hard to compare games in the 70-80 to games of today. It is a different game so comparing on one or two stats does not make sense.

And Ed...you started the comparison by saying the Heat were much more talented than the Thunder.....i just disagreed.

on paper

I'm comparing stats because you're throwing stats out.....i saw guys in the 70s and 80s with my own eyes and i see LeBron with my own eyes......I wish LeBron wasn't any good because i'm not a fan of his....i just believe in giving credit where credit is due....the guy can flat out play and i think he's one of the 10 best players i've ever seen. If you want to say he's not one of the 50 best you've ever seen, ok. I just think it's sour grapes and not wanting to give the guy any credit.

I was referring to this core with their 3, should have been more specfic. Also, you have to keep in mind 75% of the Heat fan base didn't know they even had a team before this free agent splash two years ago, so this could be considered their first lol

On the other hand, the best player ever is... BILL RUSSELL. Before reaching the NBA he won 2 NCAA Championships and led USF to 55 consecutive victories - he AVERAGED over 20 points and 20 rebounds per game.

Russell was captain of the 1956 Olympic Team and led them to a Gold Medal with an average margin of victory of over 53 points. This was at a time when professionals were not allowed to play, he played in before playing for the Celtics.

In his 13 years in the NBA he was a 12 time all-star and won 11 NBA Championships (including 8 consecutive championships). He averaged 22.5 rebounds per game, and 15.1 points per game over his career in the regular season. He averaged 24.9 rebounds and 16.2 points per game in the playoffs over his career - including 1961 playoffs when he averaged 29.9 rebounds per game and 1962 playoffs when he averaged 26.4 rebounds and 22.4 points per game. They did not record blocks when Russell played, but it is estimated he would have averaged 7 blocks per game during the course of his career.

Over the course of 1956-1957 this man won an NCAA Championship, Olympic Gold Medal, and an NBA Championship. Insane.