CT prayers are with you!

SO disturbing to hear of this horrible shooting! Prayers to the families and the young children witnesses to such a terrible crime.

Yes - definitely praying.

Many prayers for the families, children, and staff. I cant wait to get home so I can hug my children.

That's absolutely sickening. My thoughts go out to all the families impacted, I can't imagine the horror being experienced there today.

??? enlighten us

Shooting at an elementary school in Connecticut. I believe 27 dead, including 16 students grades K-4....

http://gma.yahoo.com/breaking-conn-schoo...topstories.html

27 reported dead so far in an CT elementary school shooting.

There was an elementary school shooting in CT this AM. It is the top story of pretty much every news outlet. Details still coming but looks like 20 or more dead, adults and children.

My heart is breaking for these families. Prayers going up from TN.

I am struggling here.

Not that I can easily understand killing a single person, or the senseless violence of a mass shooting in general; but, I truly am befuddled at the thought of killing 18 ELEMENTARY SCHOOL students.... There is no way I can twist my brain around to make this make any sort of sense. Again, shootings in general bother me, but on some level i can see motivations and the torment that would twist someones world around to make that seem like an option... but these are at oldest 4th graders!!!

any news on motive?

No details on the shooter except that he was 24 and one of the fatalities. The news isn't sure if he took his own life or if the police took him down.

I haven’t seen anything yet. I did read that a second person is in custody for a possible connection to the shooting.

He was arguing with the principle, shot here and then who knows from there. She or someone in the office were smart enough to turn on the speaker so the entire school could hear what was happening. This prompted many teachers to locke their doors and hide. (at least that's what I've heard on the news at lunch)

How did our society become so very messed up?

I just heard about this on the radio. How horrible. I cannot fathom what these families are going through. Totally makes me want to just hug my littles ones.

I don't know why, but this is for some reason hitting me very hard. I don't know anyone in Connecticut, so why does it seem to be cutting right through me today?

Maybe its because my kids don't live with me and its times like these I wish they were here?

Any thoughts from anyone?

truly, how sad. It wasn't like this for me or my kids but my grans live a totally different life because of all of this.

Makes me grateful for the security at place in so many schools around here now.

But still I'm sad that we need it at all.

I understand what you're saying DC. I just keep thinking about my 8 yr old son and if this had been his school. I've been on the verge of tears for the last hour.

I don't have children, but this is breaking my heart as well. How could someone do this? If you want to die, then kill yourself, AND don't take innocent children away from their families in the process.

No words for this.

Just the fact that an outsider walks into an elementary school carrying a gun is disturbing......the rest of it is horrifying.

Dallas news is saying the gunman (a young man in his 20's) was the father of one of the kids at the school. That is why security let him in the school.

I guess i just meant the mentality of somebody who feels the need to carry a gun into a school.....i'm assuming it was concealed. That's what is disturbing to me. And by 'outsider' in this instance, i meant non-school employee (taking into account the possibility in some rough schools of armed guards, police, etc.....sure that wouldn't apply to this elementary school).

I cannot imagine (and don't really want to imagine)what these families are suffering right now. May God give them strength. I haven't heard of any injured - just killed. This is just wrong.

disturbed on many levels.


I have not been bothered like this in a very long time....

There are 3 injured with serious injuries that were taken to the local hospital. No info on if they were adults or children, and not sure if they died after arriving and are in the count.

ABC News is reporting he had four weapons and was wearing a bullet proof vest.

So sad. Disgusting actually.

Call or hug your families. Especially the children.

My thoughts go out to those involved.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/14/police-respond-to-shooting-at-connecticut-elementary-school/

updated info on Fox news.

I want to blurt out so many expletives that my membership to BOL is revoked for life.

heartbreaking.

sad.

I remember walking a number of blocks to elementary school, walking five blocks to a corner convenience store, etc.

Now, you worry about your child walking one block to a friend's house. It is sad that so much innocence is gone.

A child should never be in a spot where they are unsafe.

Prayers to the families impacted by this.

I am reading that the gunman's mother was a teacher at the school and is among one of the dead.

This is twisted and sad on so many levels.
I just can't....**sigh** No words.

It's like a horrible, horrible video game gone so very wrong.

Tragic beyond explanation. Praying for all the children and their families.

Unbelievable.....

I thought the same thing on the way back from lunch when I drove past the high school wehre my son is sitting in class. I shouldn't have to worry if he is safe there, but sadly I do.

me too!

Latest is he was the 24 yr old son of the kindergarten teacher. Both he and his mother are dead and most of the fatalities were in her classroom.

Oh Lord! So very many people affected by one person's insanity!

I read reports of a second person involved?

There's also apparently a body at his home.

So incredibly awful.

I sit here in my cube looking at the picture of my 5 year old and just can't wrap my head around how someone could just do this to such innocent little faces. How do you open fire in a room of 5 year olds? I picture my son and what he does in his classroom in the morning hours of his day, were those poor children sitting at their table coloring or writing letters? Perhaps they were sitting on the carpet and having a story? I just can't even imagine those poor parents of the ones that perished and how do you send your kid back there when this is all said and done? I am sick, absolutely sick.

Me too. I cannot wrap my head around it and I am an adult, I anticipate a long chat with the kids tonight, but I am not even sure where to begin.

I read that his mother was found killed in her home?

from CNN liveblog

[Updated at 3:09 p.m. ET] The suspect's mother was shot and killed at the school, according to source close to the investigation. She was a teacher there.

I heard the father was killed earlier. He's probably the one killed at home.

Thanks dooby.

and the link - should have included

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/14/shooting-reported-at-connecticut-elementary-school/

Bec, I was thinking the same thing about my littlest grangirl. We just had birthday dinner for her last night.
I simply cannot imagine dealing with this in the first person.
I'm overwrought by the meer notion of it all.
I keep praying but I feel like the words are just bouncing off walls right now.

The thing that really bothers me is that no matter how we prepare our kids, secure our school (or any other public place) or how safe we try to be...it's out of our hands.

Yes, Truff, there are no words or prayers that my feeble mind can make to possibly deal with this tragicness. These are the moments when I am glad to know that the Holy Spirit intercedes. I can tell you as soon as I get home I am going to probalby look at his face and break down. I will be doing a lot of hugging on my babies tonight.

I totally understand. While my 'baby' is 25 years old he's now a high school teacher so this affects me in a similar manner.

Here I thought that the bank was kind of a risky place to work in, I think that has been trumped by working at a school these days.

It hurts my heart to think about how the other children, teachers, and their families will be haunted by this the rest of their lives.

No doubt Manimal. No doubt. I don't know if I could bring my kid back to that school. I would literally have to move away or something.

and his younger brother was hiding in the woods near the school - they caught him and took him off in handcuffs.

So did he have two younger brothers? CNN is reporting that his younger brother's body was found in New Jersey.

Count is up to 20 kids dead.

Horrifying is the only word I can think of.

Is that the one in Hoboken? Just saw that report.

That's what I heard - but there has been a lot of different reports and it's difficult to determine what is true and what isn't.

I saw the pictures of the crying children being led out of school and it broke my heart. All those poor families! I can't imagine how heartbreaking it is for them.

It sounds as though he set out to kill everyone close to him - his mother, father, brother. There are 2 folks missing - one of which is his girlfriend.

From what I have gathered from the news stories, it was the younger brother who came to the school, went to his mother's classroom and killed her and all of the kids in her class. The principal and a school psychiatrist heard the commotion and ran out to check, and they were killed.

From what I understand, the shooter's father was also killed, and a friend and girlfriend of the shooter's brother are missing.

The older brother has been detained but apparently not involved in the shooting. It may be he has been taken into custody for questions about his brother as well as his own safety since his name was initially given by mistake as the shooter. Other reports indicated the younger brother had taken his older brother's I.D.

Messed up all the way around - One family's apparent dysfunction has become the tragedy for scores of families.

How can anyone be so mentally ill as to do something like this. I burst into tears when it came on television this afternoon.

The parents of those poor children. The mother was a kindergarten teacher at the school and was killed there. That means that most of the children killed were kindergartners.



Dad was found dead in his home in Hoboken.

Updates from ABC - the details keep changing:
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/12/live-updates-newtown-ct-school-shooting/

Now it appears the mother was killed in the home, which means the shooter intended to target the kids in her class. Also, new reports say she was a teacher's aid, not a teacher herself.

And perhaps most chilling:

That is the only way you could do something like this.


And his brother was hiding in the woods and they found him?

As ABC went off at 7:30 they showed the crowds of people having a prayer vigil at a local CT church.

What a horrible, horrible tragedy.

Bomb threat adds alarm to grief at Connecticut church

::shakes head in disgust::

I have had a really hard time with this tragedy. My son is also 6, just like many of the victims. I cannot fathom to think what these parents and siblings are going through. It's gut wrenching enough to think that this COULD happen to my child. May they be comforted in their time of grief and be given the strength to go on.

^^^^^^^^^^^^
Agree!!!!!! How can someone be so cruel! Hope they find them and throw the book at them (and that it's a big, fat, book that they throw!)

I have to keep my wife from watching the news. All weekend, she'd put this out of her mind and be so joyful with Christmas coming, planning the menus for next week and baking cookies, and then this horror would come back on TV. She's so tender-hearted when it comes to children.

When they mentioned how the families already have gifts hidden away that now won't be opened in their homes on Christmas... that put us both over the edge.

Looking back at this thread, isn't it amazing how much wrong info the media gave us last week. Mom was a kindergarten teacher, brother was in the woods - all wrong.

Funerals Begin for Newtown Victims

I would suggest not reading/watcing without tissues.

snip - The first two funerals for the victims of the Sandy Hook Elementary school massacre are scheduled for later today when Newtown, Conn., will bury 6-year-olds Noah Pozner and Jack Pinto.

Noah's family will greet the public before the funeral service begins at 1 p.m. at the Abraham L. Green & Son Funeral Home in Fairfield, Conn. The burial will follow at B'nai Israel Cemetery in Monroe.

Jack's service will take place at 1 p.m. at Honan Funeral Home in Newtown. The burial will follow the service at Newtown Village Cemetery.

Noah and Jack were two of the 20 children who were killed Friday morning at Sandy Hook Elementary School when Adam Lanza allegedly sprayed two first-grade classrooms with bullets that also killed six adults.

Noah's twin sister, Arielle, was one of the students who survived when her teacher hid her class in the bathroom during the attack.

OMG - that poor girl


Our pastor threw out his sermon yesterday, walked out into the congregation and had an open discussion on this. Very moving and brought most to tears.

Being in Mass, next state over, and having many family members that live in CT as well as teach there, I will tell you the impact has been huge here, as it has been all over the country. I came home Friday from work and could not wait to hug my 7 and 10 year old. I had tears as I did. Our school superintendent robocalled all of us last night reassuring everyone that the schools were safe and that teachers and school administration had been meeting all weekend to prepare for the kids return today. When 6 year old Emily's Dad did his press conference Sat. afternoon, I had to walk away from the TV. The media needs to stop sensationalizing this, stop playing coverage 24/7, just let the town mourn and try to heal.

The media needs to stop sensationalizing this

I could not agree more

Same here too. Let them alone. Let them heal. As a parent who has lost a child, it is devastating and takes time to get over. Under these conditions - I can't even imagine what those parents and families are going through.

Both of my kids were sick this weekend so I had to keep them home from school today. Not going to lie though, I was kind of thankful to have them home with me. It will be hard to drop them off when they are ready to go back. They are 4 and 5 years old.

It was heartbreaking.

I'll be honest, it was hard to drop off my 1st grader at school today. I hugged, kissed, said I love you and told her to have a good day (like I do every morning) my chest was tightening. She gets out of the car and walks into her school with no worries in the world and I feel like I was going to have a panic attack.

I have cried so much this weekend, and have tried to spend as much time with my kids as possible (or as much as they would let me :)). Everytime they did something wrong, I would start to get on their case and then I would stop. I would think, is this something to really get upset over?

It's funny how before Friday, my biggest stress issue was figuring xmas dinner and whose house was it going to be at and who's invited. It's a shame that a tragedy had to give me some perspective.

Sorry about the rant. Just needed to get some of it off my chest.

Same here lcrew. I've been stressing today waiting to hear back from my kids' schools about safety drills and the like. I heard that a number of school systems robo-called or issued statements to reassure parents....but not mine. So I emailed both my kids' teachers (1 in elementary school and 1 in middle school) just so I'd have some piece of mind. I did notice that the sheriff's office had a car parked at the elementary school this morning, and it wasn't running radar to write tickets.

Heartbreaking and disturbing.... The media was reporting every rumor. Those parents couldn't even turn on the TV without hearing about this - so those with little ones who needed to watch cartoons, couldn't possibly have been left alone with the TV on. Hope they had DVDs they could pop in the TV so the kiddos could enjoy themselves for awhile away from this constant reporting. Of course they've been talking about all the other shootings and Columbine. Rather surprising that no one's mentioned the Oklahoma City Bombing that killed all those children in the daycare center in the federal building.

do not open this link unless you wish to be outraged

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/12/16/r...#at_pco=cfd-1.0

I saw that yesterday Ed. Those people are twisted. Hopefully, the police are able to keep them far away from the funeral sites.

I heard about ^^ that story earlier, that sickens me nearly as much as the original story. Everything about that "church" is evil.

They picket in hopes of generating law-suit material to fund their hatred, and love high profile disasters and tragedies like this and soldier's funerals.

I can't open it - but what are those idiots actually picketing?

Victims funeral

No, no, I figured that, but what specifically would attract them to picket these??

well, besides the obvious media attention...

I hope those motorcycle groups show up.

Oh, I found this:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/protest-westboro-baptist-church-erupts-185802032.html

After the Westboro Baptist Church suggested on Twitter its intention to picket the Newtown, Conn., site where 26 shooting victims died, including 20 children, hackers retaliated.

The reason for the protest? Reportedly because Connecticut has legalized same-sex marriage.

Seriously?

Yes, and they even made a disgusting youtube video claiming that CT was being punished for it.

They are just C-R-A-Z-Y! How can they call themselves a 'church'.

A tragedy like this should NEVER bring out more hatred, otherwise the criminal has won.

I think the Westwood Baptist people are just as sick as the shooter, just in a different way

So - in response, Anonymous - you know that group that we all hate(at least when our banks are being attacked or card services etc....) has hacked the WBC website and has released emails, addresses, names, and phone numbers of members

also, and also started a petition at whitehouse.org to have WBC listed as a hategroup - has 46000 signatures

::like::

whitehouse.gov, if you want to seek it out and sign it.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petitio...-group/tNVz4V7Q just short of 27,000 signatures now, there might be multiple running.

that one is more specific....

this one has 140,000 signatures

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petitio...mpaign=shorturl

article where i foudn this info

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/...baptist-church/

Great, thanks. The page keeps crashing while I try to sign, I hope that's a sign of an influx of signatures.

It crashed for me too. But then I got my email to sign up for an account, clicked through that and then was able to sign the petition.

Avi twins!

I signed it last night and it had over 160,000 signatures.

I just signed it too. It worked pretty quickly this morning.

Heard two interesting comments yesterday with regard to what can be done to deter incidents like this.

First one hit home hard...'you can't control crazy.'
My response is 'maybe not. But we need to take mental illness out of the closet so persons affected and their parents and caregivers can get the help they need.

Second was a comment on how to guard against someone coming into a school again. Air Marshalls have been a good deterent. Why not have School Marshalls? Not cops patroling as many schools already have. But rather school personnel trained and armed and known only to the police.

Just thoughts I'm sharing now that we seem to have moved to discussions beyond all of our intial shock and sorrow.

Somewhere I saw a suggestion that policemen out on patrol should park in school parking lots whenever they have to sit and do paperwork. I liked that idea.

Where we live, unfortunately, that would not work. We are a large township, but with a smaller population, so we don't have a large police force. Neighboring townships don't even have police forces and depend on the State Police, who are already over worked.

Hence the idea that school marshalls should be in every school.
Anonymous personnel trained to protect the children with force if necessary.

If your school district can afford that, go for it. Our school district can't.

It does seem that this sort of thing rarely happens in inner city schools where they have metal detectors at the doors, and armed security on the premisis. I would be all for an armed person in my children's school.


A good friend of mine has a teen-aged step-son with Asperger's. The kid has given him so much trouble and grief, and while they do what they can, including rarely leaving him alone, they can only do so much.

I think a ban on assault weapons is a most logical first step. Really have no idea why it would take these sorts of incidents to bring it up; i've never understood why anyone short of the police or the army would have a legitimate need for them.

They have said that people with Asperger's do not tend to be violent. They said he also had a secondary condition, but did not specify what that was.

The reports now coming out about the mother are not pretty:

Mother was a "survivalist"

I did read other reports where the mom taught her sons how to shoot with deadly accuracy. She knew her son had issues, and she taught him how to kill and kept guns where he had access. She was the first to pay for her folly. Too bad so many other families had to pay for hers as well.

I have to tell you when ever I have a conversation with someone who is convinced the world will fall into collapse and we had all better arm ourselves and prepare for the worst, I walk away thinking "I am more afraid of you than of anything else."

A good friend of mine posted this yesterday on Facebook, she is the parent of two children with different disorders. I thought she put it very well in that Asperger's is not the villain or the excuse anyone should latch onto here.

Reports I have seen have stressed that Asperger's does not lend itself to violence. They also said that he had a secondary condition but did not specify what it was.

Neighbors have said the mother was very controlling and strict. That may have more to do with it than anything.

I agree that Asperger's by itself would probably not cause someone to act in this manner. I really believe now that the Mom was the catalyst here.

I still remember the conversation I had with a lady at work - this took place around late November 1999 and she asked me if I was ready for Y2K. I told my reports and plans were all submitted to the Y2K Committee, and she told me "Oh no, I mean personally. Are you prepared? Because Clinton is going to use Y2K as an excuse to impose martial law and take away all of our civil liberties including our guns. So you need to stock up and be prepared to go to the desert in order to fight the federal armies."

Um..., yeah. I just sort of mumbled something and backed away, very slowly.

I don't mean to take away from the tragedy, I am just hoping we don't have more of these.

I will agree with the last statement.

I find it strange that this is being reported in many foriegn news outlets and not the US Media.

There is a lot of misinformation out there, who know what is true.

The mom may have made many errors in judgement, but where was the father and older brother through the years. They seem to have fled the scene, sending back lots of cash, but not much else.

Here's another article in the New York Magazine:
Lanza's Mother was avid gun collector

My former bank paid to have police cars not in use, parked in the parking lot...as though a cop might be inside.

I always had a level of comfort when my neighbor was a police officer. His cruiser was always parked right out front at night.

Our police force has a number of policemen that are dedicated to schools only. They drive similar patrol cars, but the cars have the school district name above the word "police." Don't know if the school district or the tax payers pay for this.

Swiggles, around here, if the district is paying for it, so are the tax payers Same with the police.

According to ABC News this morning....statistics prove that banning assault weapons decreases the number of deaths and number of incidents like this. A mentally ill person might still try to kill people with a gun but can't walk in and spray the room with a rapid fire weapon.

Well...duh....yes. That is correct....didn't think before I wrote.

If she was an avid gun collector why did she only have 5 guns?

This was the only number of guns that were given.

That is a great idea in my opinion!

I also agree that assault weapons should be controlled. I am an avid hunter, and I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon in my state. I am also a professional banker and a female. I do not have any assault weapons, personal protection weapons do not have the same impact as assault weapons, nobody needs them for hunting or for personal protection.

http://www.politico.com/story/2012/12/adam-lanzas-mother-kept-trials-of-home-life-hidden-85170.html

I read that she had taught him how to shoot in order to teach him responsibility. Ummm, why couldn't she just get him a dog?

Yes, but a school is not like a one-shot ride airplane full of total strangers...they would have to constantly rotate the marshal or I'm thinking the students/teachers would easily figure it out.

could they start with better locks and doors on the school?

But someone far removed from horrifying events like the one in Connecticut will claim it's a violation of their civil rights to not be able to own one and they need it in case the aliens from Mars land next week or something.

Yea, they might claim that but there's simply no need for any lay person to have an automatic weapon. Period.

Maybe people would figure out who was a marshall. But if there were enough of them in every school, it wouldn't matter because one or more would always be there.

And Clarice, there are enough people, ie: teachers, maintenance staff, coaches, etc. who own guns and/or would be comfortable getting trained to act in these situations. Our bank holds annual training sessions for CPR training for a certain number of employee volunteers. No one is paid to be ready to act if necessary. School personnel could do the same. If someone asked me to do it and I knew it might save lives, including my own, I wouldn't need to be paid to take the training and carry my gun.

often this year i have read about teachers doing inappropriate acts with students, NYC teachers in rubber room, teachers assulting students, would I want these teachers armed in class?

This 20 year old had mental issues (aside from autism) if he recieved treatment we would not be taking about guns, unfit parents, and arming teachers.

and yes no one need automatic weapons (even the police).

Agreed. Which is why they are currently banned without a FFL license from the ATF.

Yep, the shooter did not use one of these so I am confused on where TR's comment came from. Too much CNN would be my guess.

I have never understood the complaints on "assault rifles". All assault rifles are already banned as they are select fire, which means they can switch between burst fire and full auto. The term is mis-applied to standard rifles in order to demonize.

The rifles used in these killings are no different then a hunting rifle in operation. The big difference is that most hunting rifles are more powerful. I would much rather be shot by a 5.56 or 7.62 (so called assault rifle rounds) than a 30-06 or 30-30 (hunting rounds).

but if we get individual that understand the laws that they are passing we would not get RESPA or Dodd/Frank.

Sorry, Lets not take this down the road of a gun control debate. This needs to stay focused on prayers for Newtown.

I would normally agree but a moderator decided to take us down that road. I am happy to return than repeat a bunch of misinformation heard on CNN.

The rifle in question was specifically altered to conform to what the state allows. So it's rapid fire sequence is still pretty signficant. That, and the fact that the rifle is more like a hand gun because it has a pistol grip which makes it more accurate towards the target.

which is what I would like to have at the ready should someone break into my house

A pistol grip is not about accuracy, otherwise all hunting rifles would have it. It is about ergonmics. A foregrip is used for accuracy and, to my knowledge, the weapons used did not have a foregrip.

What "rapid sequence"? His weapons were one trigger pull = one bullet. There is nothing that he could have done legally that would have sped up his ability to fire rounds. It sounds like you are advocating banning all semi-automatics so all that is allowed is breach loading, muzzle loading and bolt action weapons?

I was under the impression that it fired rounds faster than a semi. Guess I'm mis-informed.

No, I'm not for a ban on semi's. I own one myself. In fact, I guess I'm an "avid gun owner" 'cause I own nearly as many guns as the mother owned.

As far as something for good home defense...was thinking about a pistol grip shot gun......sorry....didn't mean to waylay the thread.

But in the days to come there WILL be some heavy discussion about guns. In CNN Breaking News just now..

"NRA, in its first statement after the Newtown shootings, says it is prepared to help make sure this never happens again"

http://tasteofcountry.com/the-voice-sandy-hook-tribute/

Don't know how many people watch The Voice, but this was an absolutely beautiful tribute to the victims.

Sorry, but the focus should not be on the guns that were involved in this horrible tragedy. The focus should be on the fact that this young man with mental health issues had not gotten the services he needed, whether that is because of the mother's failure to pursue them or the local and state government's fault for not listening to the mother doesn't matter. As the father of an adopted son with mental health issues I am keenly aware of the difficulty in getting the services necessary so that my son may have a chance at success. I pray that out of this tragedy will come an easing of access to services for those adults and children who may struggle with mental illness.

::Steps down from soapbox::

Thank you PP this is the point I have been making through out this thread.

PP hit the nail on the head, IMHO. I haven't read this entire thread because I've been missing in action and haven't had time...but the gun is not the enemy here. Failure of "society" to take responsibility for their own is the bigger culprit. Unfortunately, I also think it would be somewhat hard for any parent to ever think their child capable of such action. Once the unthinkable happens...it's too late.

Swiggles..."was thinking about a pistol grip shot gun"

My son has one...it's awesome!

One of the articles I read yesterday actually had an interview of a close friend of the mom. Apparently, she was getting ready to go to court to become his legal guardian and have him committed to a mental institution. As he was a legal adult she could not have him involutarily committed any other way. The friend said that the son was fully aware of all of this and was very upset by it. He thinks this is what made the son "snap" the way he did.

Makes sense.

I think the 'problem' is all intertwined.....mental issues combined with easy access to guns for said people.

Turns out that story is in dispute.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national...ticle-1.1223395

I don't pretend to have all the answers but I think there are enough smart people in this world that can come up with something

one thing that concerns me is private sales

I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to registering guns yearly like a car and having to run them through some system when selling them

I agree. And person who wants to kill people will find a way to do it. No assault rifles handy? Then the person will likely choose a pistol or a knife or a bomb. It's just that without the assault rifle, it is highly, highly likely that fewer people die in these situations.

BTW....the sale of "bullet proof" children's backpacks has sored (tripled) according to the morning news.

Also, ABC news will do a news report on guns tonight....whatever their evening program is called.

Exactly! In my state, the gun stays "registered" to the original purchaser....no tracking after that.

Bullet proof child backpacks were already an existing product?

How sad.

And Purp, I agree here, but then everyone starts to argue about who pays for the services. And then as with health insurance, will the entity that is supposed to provide the service, try to wiggle out of it similar to insurance companies. Everyone wants this problem fixed but won't agree on a way to fix it.

Yes....and how likely is a child to have the backpack on when the perp enters the room and sprays the room with bullets? And what young child, even with the pack on, would think to turn his/her back to the gunman?....not much of a protection in my opinion.

They definitely need to ban private sales. If you want to buy your friends gun then you need to go to an FFL and have the FFL run the proper background check and paperwork for a processing fee.

I do like gun registration. I do not care if the guvment is tracking what weapons I own. I am fine with limiting gun purchases to one weapon a month. I am ok with limiting magazine sizes although that sounds good in theory but does absolutely nothing to prevent what this country witnessed last Friday.

There are plenty of reasonable steps that can be taken without banning currently available weapons.

It will likely stay that way until something happens to a congressman or senator or one of their families. I'm sorry to say that seems to be trend.
How long have people complained about loud tv commercials? But one Senator gets interupted by one and we get a law. How many banking laws exist becuase some legislator was inconvenienced? Several.

Correct. And how many people think certain punishments for crimes are too severe until they themselves becomes victims of crime?

And that is the very reason that nothing is ever done about the fiasco of an industry called health insurance....becuase legistlators aren't much affected by the crookery. (sorry....that's not what this thread is about...but couldn't resist the interjection).

What you guys are saying is really in line with what i think: i don't have a desire to keep law-abiding, responsible people from buying any guns they desire; i do think that with the way we track so many other things so well, we ought to be able to do a better job of tracking who we sell guns to and stop what seems to be in some cases the flea-market type selling of them. I've never gone to a gun show, but the sense you get (correct me if i'm wrong) is that just about anybody can buy anything there. That's the sort of thing i think needs some fixing.

It would be nice, BUT - we have multiple entrances to our schools, so how many guards do we have to have? One at each door? At our local Elementary school, 5 main entrances. Does that mean 5 guards for just one school? Local junior high - 6 major entrances. Does that equal 6 more guards?

If we have just one guard and someone breaks into an entrance at the opposite end of the building, by the time the guard gets to that corner, major destruction would be done.

I've never been able to figure out why ANYONE would be opposed to proper registration, back-ground checks, waiting periods, etc. for gun purchases.

Well....the only people I've ever found who are opposed to this are those who think that is the first step in the government taking everyone's guns away. That ain't gonna happen.

people have seen the movie Red Dawn and think it is true.

Woah there. You mean Cuba did not invade the rural Midwest? Why am I just now finding out about this?

On a serious note, there is no legitimate reason to not want proper registration. It biols down to fear of the government. Which, to a small degree, is a good thing but can be taken WAY too far.

In this case the son stole the guns. They were all purchased and legally 'registered' to the mother. Registration wouldn't help solve this issue. Ask the Canadians how their national gun registration is going... "The net annual operating cost of the program, originally estimated to be $2 million, is reported to be $66.4 million for the 2010-2011 fiscal year...Former Ontario Provincial Police Commissioner Julian Fantino...'We have an ongoing gun crisis including firearms-related homicides lately in Toronto, and a law registering firearms has neither deterred these crimes nor helped us solve any of them. None of the guns we know to have been used were registered...'"


If you buy a gun from a dealer at a gun show, you will go through the same background checks as if you were in a gun store. I would suggest going to one some time - I enjoy them.

No one in the government has ever been bribed or 'misplaced' sensitive information? If I was in organized crime, I'd find a way to leverage someone with access to the database so I could find out where the firearms are, rob them, and use those stolen guns so they couldn't be traced. I'm not a criminal & that's the first thing that popped in my head.

The fact remains that the mom knew her son had issues and kept guns where he had access to them. I'm sorry but that is poor, poor judgement on her part except that she is not the only one who paid the price for that.

Sure - the kid could have gotten a knife, but would he have been able to kill an entire classroom with it? No.

As far as making a bomb, yes - anyone can do that, but it takes a lot more preparation that simply grabbing some guns and using a local school for target practice.

RESPONSIBLE gun ownership is one thing. What Adam's mom did was NOT.

LESSON - If you have guns, keep them SECURE.

And I would say that is a very irrational fear. The same can be done now by following someone home from a gun purchase. In fact, that is MUCH easier to do then risk threatening or bribing a federal government employee for a list of gun owners.

Again, it is all about not wanting the government to know what guns you own.

This, this a thousand times this.

I wasn't trying to only reference this shooting specifically; as we all know, tragically, there are lots of other shooting crimes to speak of. And i don't think there's any miracle solution to gun crime; the things i'm speaking of are in the hopes of making things better; surely we can all agree that things need to get better. And doing background checks and registering guns has no impact on keeping them out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them? I find that hard to believe. We throw money hand over fist at things a lot less important than this; if it costs some money, so be it. As for the gun shows, i have no interest in going to one, but i don't begrudge you the opportunity.

I admit, it is possible that I underestimate humanity, but I think your average, underpaid office clerk could be bribed for a list of local owners for 5 figures.
My more pressing concern is when the government/contractors misplace data. Google 'lost government laptop' for a few examples, including, "U.S. National Institutes of Health (NIH) confirmed Monday that a laptop containing unsecured information about 2,500 participants enrolled in a cardiac study by its National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute (NHLBI) was stolen from the trunk of a researcher's car. ... It is only one of several government agencies that have had sensitive—and unencrypted—information stolen over the past two years; others include the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) (which in May 2006 had a laptop containing the personal information of 26.5 million veterans and their spouses stolen from an employee's apartment); the U.S. Department of Transportation (victim of a July 2006 theft from a special agent's car in Doral, Fla., of a laptop containing Social Security numbers and other personal information on some 133,000 Florida residents); and the Internal Revenue Service, which in June 2006 lost a laptop containing information on 291 employees and job applicants, including fingerprints, names, Social Security numbers and birth dates."
"More than 1,100 laptop computers have vanished from the Department of Commerce since 2001, including nearly 250 from the Census Bureau containing such personal information as names, incomes and Social Security numbers, federal officials said yesterday."
"A laptop stolen from a government contractor last month contained names, addresses and Social Security numbers of more than 207,000 U.S. Army reservists"
Then there are incidents like Bradley Manning, too. I just see incompetence way too much to trust that the info would be safe.

ETA: This has already got a little more political than I meant to, so I'll end my end of the conversation with this post

I guess I am confused. What is the concern about that information being lost? What is the risk against the individual outside of someone trying to steal your weapons?

Names and addresses are already easily ascertained. If you have a CC license your information is already stored electronically as being a gun owner.

I do not make the laws or policy but why would these people need to have the "lost" info on a laptop in the first place (yet alone an unencripted one)

Been to one gun show...thoroughly enjoyed looking around. That is where I purchased my semi and yes...had to pass a background check, fill out papers, show my driver's license, etc. They have lots of other cool stuff at gun shows too. There was a Scentsy table at the gun show I attended.

As far as this mother taking her son shooting.....well....it is amazing what a parent will do in order to try to connect with a child, make a child happy or to find something that the parent and the child can do together (not that this guy was really a "child"). Sometimes, that parental frame of mind leads to poor judgment.

Keep guns secure? Well yes, but if you have a gun for home defense, it had better be quickly accessable (no gun safe to open or trigger lock to remove), loaded, and if a semi, a bullet in the chamber. Otherwise, you might as well not have it.....it would be useless. That is why I would never have a gun at home if there are children or young adults living at home.

Point being - the mother KNEW her son had issues. So keeping a gun, or guns where he would be able to "steal" them is the height of irresponsibility. PER.I.OD.

If you have a mental time bomb living with you, then you need to think long and hard about the consequences of having a gun in the house.

And if that gun winds up killing innocent people, then the blame is ENTIRELY on YOU!

I don't disagree with any of that. As a gun owner, people are either responsible or they're not. There is no middle of the road.

I agree.

Me too.....I think the gun control comments were inevitable. But let's refocus.

Just saw this thread, I am the Compliance Officer here at Newtown Savings Bank and was here the day it happened. We are less than a mile from the school. It was an awful sight as first the local cops came, then the state police and FBI and then unfortunately one ambulance after another. There are six funerals alone today and I can see one from my window right now. As you can imagine it has been chaos here, we really are touched by the support that we are receiving from literally around the world. Its just sad because no amount of money can bring back your children. Our very own Columbine one mile down the street. We are working with the United Way and have raised almost two million dollars in two days. I just hope this somehow leads to some fundamental changes in our society.

An awful way for everyone in your area to have to spend Christmas. So very sorry for all the suffering your town is enduring.

Absolutely, dmcnamara!! I cannot imagine the complete horror of dropping my small child off at school, never imagining that to be last time to see the child alive. It really is a bad, bad world out there....not to be pessimistic, but it is what it is.

dmcnamara, my heart aches for you and your community. Thank you for posting here, for giving me an opportunity to pour out love and compassion directly to someone who is there. We grieve and hurt with you. I personally have been shaken to the core, and cannot imagine the pain you all are feeling. You are in my prayers.

What an upstanding solider!

http://news.yahoo.com/marine-vet-iraq-war-takes-self-imposed-duty-094011921.html

dmcnamara, please know that our hearts ache for your community and the loss it has endured. Prayers are being lifted up to Heaven to help ease the suffering of those left behind. If there is any way we can be of any assistance, please let us know. Thank you!

From your lips to God's ear.
Even after the funerals are all over, all of those who lost their lives, their families and friends and all of us affected 'to the core' will stay on my prayer list.

Maybe we can't make sense of this, but we can all help some good to come of it. Heard about this on the news yesterday. I have 25 more to go.

http://www.wired.com/geekmom/2012/12/26-acts-of-kindness/

......
http://now.msn.com/jack-pinto-sent-touching-letter-by-best-friend-john?ocid=ansnow11