More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time)

Posted By: HappyGilmore

More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/04/15 05:00 PM

The NFL has concluded a 2-year investigation into whether the Atlanta Falcons used artificial noise to disrupt the offenses of opposing teams in the Georgia Dome - and have determined they did.

I expect the Falcons will shortly name a "person of interest" on their audio control staff who took it upon themselves to do this with no prompting or direction form anyone affiliated with the team.

oh, for shame, how will the NFL recover from such blasphemy.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/04/15 05:08 PM

Seems like a ploy of the NY media to deprive the Falcons of their 6 and 10 record,
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/04/15 05:09 PM

I was thinking the same thing...
Posted By: Wolfy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/04/15 05:23 PM

lol
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/09/15 05:47 PM

The latest chapter of cheating:

snip from:
http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2015/02/09/...g-deflate-gate/

Jerry Rice stuck it to NFL defensive backs for nearly two decades during his Hall of Fame career. He also did it partially with stickum.

After criticizing the Patriots for deflating footballs, Rice admitted that he sprayed his gloves with stickum, a glue-like substance the NFL banned in 1981, in what was known as the Lester Hayes rule. Hayes, a former All-Pro defensive back with the Raiders, was known for bathing his hands in the substance before it was outlawed.


Guess it is time to add some *'s to the 49'ers Super Bowls...
Posted By: Peepers

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/09/15 06:01 PM

Jerry Rice is NFL royalty
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/09/15 06:10 PM

He is a cheat and hypocrite.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/09/15 06:15 PM

This just; in Aaron Hernandez in an attempt to get away with it is now claiming that he just tried to deflate Mr Lloyd. (bad joke smiley)
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/09/15 06:18 PM

There is a fine line between being your best and cheatin'....
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/09/15 06:51 PM

Hayes didn't just coat his hands, he coated his arms, chest, and legs as well...and it was clearly visible in huge yellow/orange globs all over him
Posted By: Peepers

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/09/15 06:54 PM

Originally Posted By: Sox in '13
He is a cheat and hypocrite.


shouldn't you be shoveling?
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/09/15 06:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Peepers
Originally Posted By: Sox in '13
He is a cheat and hypocrite.


shouldn't you be shoveling?


Shouldn't you have a quad stacker in your pie hole?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/09/15 07:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Peepers
Originally Posted By: Sox in '13
He is a cheat and hypocrite.


shouldn't you be shoveling?


sounds like he is. laugh
Posted By: Peepers

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/09/15 07:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Sox in '13
Originally Posted By: Peepers
Originally Posted By: Sox in '13
He is a cheat and hypocrite.


shouldn't you be shoveling?


Shouldn't you have a quad stacker in your pie hole?


who says I don't?
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/09/15 08:01 PM

ah, now this is like the good old days of the cooler!!!
Posted By: Sound Tactic

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/09/15 08:13 PM

So because Jerry Rice used stickem it is ok if the Patriots perpetually cheat?
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/09/15 08:29 PM

Its the hypocrisy shemp. He railed on the Pats for deflate gate yet admits to cheating himself. You understand hypocrisy, don't you?

If the Pats are found guilty of deflating balls they should be penalized accordingly as they were with spygate.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/09/15 08:35 PM

so a any roid user could not claim that the Pat cheated?
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/09/15 09:13 PM

are reformed cheaters as self-righteous as reformed smokers?
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/09/15 09:15 PM

I will give you that the Patriots violated a rule that went into effect in 2005/2006 regarding the location where filming of defensive signals was permitted. For that they were heavily penalized. That hardly constitutes a pattern of cheating. Everything else about the Patriots and cheating is just allegations and innuendo, some of it long retracted (like filming the Rams walkthrough before Super Bowl 36). In this day and age of social media and sensationalism "journalism", it becomes really hard to separate fact from fiction, conspiracy theories abound, and the Patriots have been unfairly victimized by a lot of fiction and innuendo.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/09/15 09:16 PM

did they not get fined for having an opponents playbook?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/09/15 09:28 PM

For that they were heavily penalized.

Yes they lost out on drafting Ray Rice.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/09/15 09:39 PM

all joking aside...is it really in the best interest of the NFL for them to do an investigation and find that a team cheated? and then publicly mete out punishment? of course not, makes the league look bad. so they keep quiet as much as possible and hope a video doesn't turn up later (ray rice) that makes them look stupid.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/09/15 09:44 PM

Filming the Rams walkthrough before Super Bowl 36

Yes and after all my audits I take all my workpapers and shread them. Then I take all the support and burn it just to make sure that I came to the correct conclusion. smirk
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/09/15 09:45 PM

Originally Posted By: HappyGilmore
all joking aside...is it really in the best interest of the NFL for them to do an investigation and find that a team cheated? and then publicly mete out punishment? of course not, makes the league look bad. so they keep quiet as much as possible and hope a video doesn't turn up later (ray rice) that makes them look stupid.


At this point I do not think that they need a video for that.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 03:32 AM

Ed, you sound like a guy who wishes your team had near the level of success that the Patriots have had over the last 15 years. I understand that, because for much of the 70s, 80s, and 90's that was the way I felt as a Patriots fan trying to find anything I could hate about the Steelers, Cowboys, 49ers, and Dolphins while my team was often at the bottom of the league. It's OK and someday it may get better for you too. Meanwhile, I'll continue to enjoy the Patriots success right now.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 11:53 AM

I do not have a "team" (I like watching a good game) I am just tired of all the cheaters in pro sports in general. That goes for the Pats and all the PEDs as well. Must be the audit part of me,
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 12:06 PM

a small part of the Pats also having the best record since 2000 is that they are in the weakest division in the NFL as well The Bill Dolphins and Jets have not played well the past 15 years. If they swapped out the Pats and replaced with Tampa. The bill would look good.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 01:29 PM

Originally Posted By: HappyGilmore
did they not get fined for having an opponents playbook?


No. Just more of the BS floating around after deflate gate broke.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 01:31 PM

Originally Posted By: edAudit
a small part of the Pats also having the best record since 2000 is that they are in the weakest division in the NFL as well The Bill Dolphins and Jets have not played well the past 15 years. If they swapped out the Pats and replaced with Tampa. The bill would look good.


Fair enough. Beating up on the sallies in that division showed in certain years when they had their [censored] handed to them in the playoffs-Ravens in 2009, Denver last year. However, you can't take away their overall success.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 01:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Sox in '13
Originally Posted By: HappyGilmore
did they not get fined for having an opponents playbook?


No. Just more of the BS floating around after deflate gate broke.


Well unless the deflategate happened in June and not December.

The Playbook story happened in June (and who knows if it is correct as everybody denied it)
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 01:42 PM

:puts on Pat Patriot masque:

Guess I didn't hear about notebookgate. My apologies.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 01:49 PM

Originally Posted By: edAudit
I do not have a "team" (I like watching a good game)

Well this Super Bowl was undeniably a good game except if you are a Seahawks fan.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 01:52 PM

Originally Posted By: BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By: edAudit
I do not have a "team" (I like watching a good game)

Well this Super Bowl was undeniably a good game except if you are a Seahawks fan.


I would think that it was good to be a Seahawk fan this year. Based upon regular season play they were lucky to get into the game in the first place. There were a lot of good teams that could have made it as well.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 02:07 PM

Originally Posted By: BeechFlyboy
Well this Super Bowl was undeniably a good game except if you are a Seahawks fan.


I think this was the closest game in the past 5 years, so even if you are a seahawks fan you should have enjoyed the game...just not the outcome. I can't think of the last superbowl that was won/lost in the last 20 seconds...
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 02:09 PM

Originally Posted By: edAudit
a small part of the Pats also having the best record since 2000 is that they are in the weakest division in the NFL as well The Bill Dolphins and Jets have not played well the past 15 years. If they swapped out the Pats and replaced with Tampa. The bill would look good.

You are misinformed. In fact, since 2001 the AFC East has been the weakest division (based on record) only twice - 2005 and 2007 (the year the Pats went 16-0 regular season).
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 02:11 PM

I didn't even know the Bills were still a professional team...I thought they folded when Jim Kelly retired
Posted By: Hobbes

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 02:10 PM

I'm a (regrettably) Browns fan. Right now they are being investigated for sending texts during the game telling the coaches what player to play and what play to run. They could be fined and lose a draft pick.

If you're gonna cheat, can you at least do it to win a few games?

I might have to go back to rooting for the Packers like I did from '96-98 (when the Browns were gone).
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 02:13 PM

They are much better than the Jets.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 02:19 PM

Originally Posted By: BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By: edAudit
a small part of the Pats also having the best record since 2000 is that they are in the weakest division in the NFL as well The Bill Dolphins and Jets have not played well the past 15 years. If they swapped out the Pats and replaced with Tampa. The bill would look good.

You are misinformed. In fact, since 2001 the AFC East has been the weakest division (based on record) only twice - 2005 and 2007 (the year the Pats went 16-0 regular season).


When 3 miserable excuses for a football team play each other someone has to win. Let us not forget about the 2007 season
1) loss in the SB to the Giants
2) Spygate. (it is easier to win when you have the opposing teams plays) If they were caught taping the lowly Jets...
Posted By: Hobbes

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 02:21 PM

Originally Posted By: edAudit
They are much better than the Jets.


They might have had a better record this past season, but not over the last 15 years. At least the Jets have hope right now. The Browns are so bad Kyle Shanahan gave a 32 point presentation on why he should be let out of his contract. The QB situation is a disaster, the top receiver is suspended, the tight end refuses to come back, and the only coaches they can get as coordinators are inexperienced.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 02:30 PM

Originally Posted By: edAudit
Originally Posted By: BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By: edAudit
a small part of the Pats also having the best record since 2000 is that they are in the weakest division in the NFL as well The Bill Dolphins and Jets have not played well the past 15 years. If they swapped out the Pats and replaced with Tampa. The bill would look good.

You are misinformed. In fact, since 2001 the AFC East has been the weakest division (based on record) only twice - 2005 and 2007 (the year the Pats went 16-0 regular season).


When 3 miserable excuses for a football team play each other someone has to win. Let us not forget about the 2007 season
1) loss in the SB to the Giants
2) Spygate. (it is easier to win when you have the opposing teams plays) If they were caught taping the lowly Jets...

1. I remember. Yes, it's still painful. I take solace in the fact that the Patriots still won more games without a loss than any other team in NFL history in a single season before losing that Super Bowl.
2. Spygate came to light in the first game of the season of 2007. So for no other game in 2007 were they taping anything. And it wasn't the taping that was illegal to begin with. It was where the taping was occurring. If you don't think every other team is trying to figure out the signals, you're delusional. Why do you think every play calling coordinator on TV covers their mouth with their clipboard when calling plays?
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 02:41 PM

Originally Posted By: BeechFlyboy
Why do you think every play calling coordinator on TV covers their mouth with their clipboard when calling plays?


halitosis?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 02:47 PM

but they tried to cheat against the Jets, nuff said.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 02:50 PM

Originally Posted By: edAudit
but they tried to cheat against the Jets, nuff said.
And this somehow influenced their winning every game of the regular season?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 02:53 PM

If they did not tape the lowly wretched horrible jets they may have been 15 and 1.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 03:07 PM

The tapes were confiscated by the NFL during the game. Didn't have any impact on the outcome of that game.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 03:20 PM

Originally Posted By: BeechFlyboy
Didn't have any impact on the outcome of that game.


based on? seems this is an assertion that would be difficult to prove either way
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 03:20 PM

and the feed did not make it to the booth prior to being caught?
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 03:25 PM

Do you have evidence of a feed to the booth? Because the NFL didn't have any such evidence.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 03:27 PM

This pretty much says it all:
https://teechip.com/hateusaintus#id=0&c=031F30
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 03:32 PM

The only saving grace for the Jets that year was Miami stunk worse than them (they beat them twice).

So that was 2 easy games 2 really easy ones.

One of the Major reasons the bills went 7 and 9 is they played they beat the Jets and Miami twice.

so you can say that 6 of the 16 were extremely easy.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 03:38 PM

Originally Posted By: BeechFlyboy


I do not think that the Steelers or Cowboys are impressed with 4 wins.
Posted By: Blade Scrapper

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 03:43 PM

Nope
Posted By: GuitarDude

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 04:24 PM

Originally Posted By: BeechFlyboy
And it wasn't the taping that was illegal to begin with. It was where the taping was occurring.


That's not exactly a valid defense (no pun intended). That's like a hitman saying "It's not illegal to swing a tire iron, it's just that someone's head was in its path." wink
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 04:38 PM

Originally Posted By: GuitarDude
Originally Posted By: BeechFlyboy
And it wasn't the taping that was illegal to begin with. It was where the taping was occurring.


That's not exactly a valid defense (no pun intended). That's like a hitman saying "It's not illegal to swing a tire iron, it's just that someone's head was in its path." wink

Understand, and wasn't trying to say it wasn't cheating. It was. But let's be clear about what it was that was done illegally and what impact that had on any games that occurred after it came to light. And let's also be clear that this is not isolated to the Patriots. They were just the ones that got caught (ratted out, Mangini). And they got significantly punished as a result.

Many want to say that spygate taints all of the Patriots Super Bowl wins prior to its uncovering. But the fact is, the rule the Patriots violated didn't even become a rule until after the Patriots had won their third Lombardi, so how can those trophies be tainted by Spygate?
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 07:00 PM

so if we go off the old assumption my Catholic School nuns used...for every instance of cheating that was caught, at least 10 instances weren't...bodes poorly for the Patriots, doesn't it?

As a follower of the Saints, who were thrown under the bus by the NFL and had multiple coaches suspended (1 for a full season) because of bounties that were allegedly put on opponents (subsequently proven by arbitration to be untrue), I wonder why there has been no knee-jerk suspension reaction for the Patriots.
Posted By: DoS

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 07:02 PM

Originally Posted By: HappyGilmore
I wonder why there has been no knee-jerk suspension reaction for the Patriots.


because I think the NFL is sick of it always making them look like idiots. So, now they will do nothing and look like slow idiots
Posted By: Bankster

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 08:57 PM

because, according to Richard Sherman, Bob Kraft and Rog Goodell are buddies.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 09:44 PM

Because nothing has been proven yet.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 09:50 PM

and as soon as it has been "dis-proven" the evidence will go into the destruct bin.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/10/15 10:35 PM

Originally Posted By: HappyGilmore
so if we go off the old assumption my Catholic School nuns used...for every instance of cheating that was caught, at least 10 instances weren't...bodes poorly for the Patriots, doesn't it?

As a follower of the Saints, who were thrown under the bus by the NFL and had multiple coaches suspended (1 for a full season) because of bounties that were allegedly put on opponents (subsequently proven by arbitration to be untrue), I wonder why there has been no knee-jerk suspension reaction for the Patriots.
Just because the nuns assumed it, doesn't make it accurate and universal.

And even if we do take your nuns' assumption to be accurate, nobody is denying the Patriots filmed from illegal locations multiple times. In fact for just about every game in 2005, 2006, and half of the first game of 2007 after the NFL clarified in 2005 that such filming was not to be done. But does that then automatically mean they must have been cheating ten other ways too? That's what Internet innuendo has created. I say prove it.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/11/15 01:49 PM

Originally Posted By: edAudit
and as soon as it has been "dis-proven" the evidence will go into the destruct bin.


:hands ed a tin foil hat:
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/11/15 01:54 PM

http://forums.chargers.com/showthread.php?t=53854
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/11/15 01:56 PM

Originally Posted By: BeechFlyboy
I say prove it.


the opposite view would say prove it wasn't
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/11/15 01:56 PM

I am aware it was destroyed. My comment was referencing the most recent "scandal" and your assertion the evidence will be destroyed. My apologies for not being clear.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/11/15 02:22 PM

If you do not believe that the NFL has a track record of coverup here are 2 more. (2 for each and not counting spygate)

http://nypost.com/2014/10/10/nfl-exec-who-talked-domestic-violence-cover-up-makes-hasty-retreat/

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/09/...olence-scandal/

http://thinkprogress.org/sports/2013/10/09/2757241/league-of-denial/

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/former-players-suing-over-concussion-coverup-071911
Posted By: Blade Scrapper

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/11/15 02:42 PM

Your sports team is vastly inferior
That simple fact is plainly obvious to see
Were gonna kick your collective posterior
Of course you realize were speaking figuratively
Our stats are thoroughly impressive
Our coach really has the Midas touch
Our players are fast and strong and brave
And your guys, eh, not so much

In fact weve played teams across the nation
And youre the worst one weve come across
Try to assimilate that information
And it just might help you cope with your impending loss
Oh, and if somehow we are still failing
To effectively articulate the points at hand
Allow us now to summarize them in a manner
That your feeble brains can understand

Were great (were great)
And you suck (you suck)
Were great (were great)
And you suck (you suck)
Were great (were great)
And you suck (you suck)
You see theres us (were great)
And then theres you (you suck)
Were really, really great (really great)
In contrast, you really suck (really suck)
Okay, full disclosure, were not that great
But nevertheless, you suck

Your sports team will soon suffer swift defeat
That theorys backed up by empirical evidence
Were gonna grind up your guys into burger meat
Again, of course, were speaking in the figurative sense
Whats the use of even going through the motions
When you know that youre gonna lose anyhow
So why dont you save us all some time
And give up now (you suck!)
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/11/15 02:42 PM

http://nypost.com/2015/02/11/chicago-little-league-stripped-of-title-for-using-suburban-ringers/
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/11/15 02:54 PM

Quote:
For more than 75 years, Little League has been an organization where fair play is valued over the importance of wins and losses


if this were true, they would not keep score, host tournaments where champions are crowned, nor have TV coverage of the little league world series...
Posted By: Blade Scrapper

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/11/15 03:13 PM

Originally Posted By: HappyGilmore
Quote:
For more than 75 years, Little League has been an organization where fair play is valued over the importance of wins and losses


if this were true, they would not keep score, host tournaments where champions are crowned, nor have TV coverage of the little league world series...
Or strip LLWS titles from teams using ineligible players.
Posted By: Blade Scrapper

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/11/15 03:13 PM

Little League Strips Title from Jackie Robinson West (Chicago)
Posted By: Bankster

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/11/15 03:33 PM

The days of little leaguers being groomed on sandlots and in backyards are long gone. ESPN and the Little League organization can try to spin it that way, but the kids that make it to Williamsport aren't using hand-me-down mits and bats. These kids are likely paying top-dollar for professional instruction and year-round training, and are part of the crazy world of youth travel sports. I'd be more surprised if these teams weren't trying to use ringers from outside of their boundaries.
Posted By: Stupendous Man

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/12/15 09:02 PM

I dont think the punishment fits the crime, but i dont like the idea of stripping titles as a punishment anyways. I mean, it's not like a championship belt where you're continualy defending it. It's a thing that happened. you dont have a time machine. If you dont want to recognize it, ok, but i dont have to forget it. The moments still happened.
Posted By: DD Regs

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/12/15 09:33 PM

1. This was suppose to be about a inner city team from Chicago, and how they overcame their situation to be winners.

2. I liked the interview this morning with the mother of the suspect child. She said she did not understand why this was an issue, he has played for other teams with no issues shocked

3. If these were inner city kids, someone must be buying or sponsoring them.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/12/15 09:37 PM

It is a good lesson for the kids to have the championship taken away.

Next time the coach should become friends with or invite the head of the LL to the coaches house for dinner or at least a good bribe.

Or at least show how keeping them around would make more money for the LL.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/12/15 09:45 PM

Originally Posted By: edAudit
or at least a good bribe.



being from Chicago, you'd think he already knew this. Since these kids were also hosted at the White House in the championship tradition, will they receive a bill now for that? will they need to return their photos with Obama? Will the WH hold a press conference where he can say if he had a boy he'd look like these kids? These are tough questions that only Brian Williams can answer...
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/12/15 09:49 PM

So Roger Goodell was starting a press conference at 3:30 CST to discuss the Patriots and the air pressure issues, and right as he began, Kanye West jumped on stage...apparently the press conference is postponed indefinitely...
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/19/15 02:52 PM

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/1...l-lines-reports

Wow just wow the NFL will burn their own employees to cast doubt on this mess to clear the Pats.

Goes back to the we destroyed the tapes.

The balls were under-inflated so we just put a little more air in no harm no foul
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/19/15 04:16 PM

Originally Posted By: edAudit
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/1...l-lines-reports

Wow just wow the NFL will burn their own employees to cast doubt on this mess to clear the Pats.

Goes back to the we destroyed the tapes.

The balls were under-inflated so we just put a little more air in no harm no foul
You hate us 'cause you ain't us.

How often do you have to change the foil on that hat of yours? With dozens of former Patriots players on other teams (many in circumstances that makes them not really like the way the Patriots did business with them, like Richard Seymour and Wes Welker) how come none of them are bringing to light any cheating tactics of the Patriots? With former Patriots coaches now many places throughout the league (some with division rivals), how come none of them aside from Eric Mangini have ever brought anything to light except videotaping from an illegal location?
Posted By: Sound Tactic

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/19/15 04:18 PM

Originally Posted By: BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By: edAudit
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/1...l-lines-reports

Wow just wow the NFL will burn their own employees to cast doubt on this mess to clear the Pats.

Goes back to the we destroyed the tapes.

The balls were under-inflated so we just put a little more air in no harm no foul
You hate us 'cause you ain't us.

How often do you have to change the foil on that hat of yours? With dozens of former Patriots players on other teams (many in circumstances that makes them not really like the way the Patriots did business with them, like Richard Seymour and Wes Welker) how come none of them are bringing to light any cheating tactics of the Patriots? With former Patriots coaches now many places throughout the league (some with division rivals), how come none of them aside from Eric Mangini have ever brought anything to light except videotaping from an illegal location?


How many of them actually know about it? With the two biggest accusations, spy gate, and the deflate gate, very few would even know. Not only that, but they are not the only team cheating. The problem with all of these rules is that rules permit abuse. Since there are so many rules, it allows people to debate if a rule was actually broken. For example, they are talking shades of gray vs intent.

The NFL needs to do something to simply the game. I think two big changes would be to start calling picks and offensive PI.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/19/15 04:28 PM

Originally Posted By: BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By: edAudit
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/1...l-lines-reports

Wow just wow the NFL will burn their own employees to cast doubt on this mess to clear the Pats.

Goes back to the we destroyed the tapes.

The balls were under-inflated so we just put a little more air in no harm no foul
You hate us 'cause you ain't us.

How often do you have to change the foil on that hat of yours? With dozens of former Patriots players on other teams (many in circumstances that makes them not really like the way the Patriots did business with them, like Richard Seymour and Wes Welker) how come none of them are bringing to light any cheating tactics of the Patriots? With former Patriots coaches now many places throughout the league (some with division rivals), how come none of them aside from Eric Mangini have ever brought anything to light except videotaping from an illegal location?


Do you thing that they would jeopardize their career because of behavior at a former employer?

Simple they do not wish to be labeled as a rat in the locker room.

Mangini was fed up with belichek
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/19/15 04:39 PM

are we forgetting about this?


http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/20...chick-tom-brady
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/19/15 07:32 PM

Originally Posted By: edAudit

Did you even read this article? First, tell me where in this article is says the Patriots did anything illegal or against the rules? Second, did you see that even Rex Ryan says this allegation is disrespectful to New England? Third, did you see the statement that says Pettine said Rex Ryan handed out the playbooks like candy anyway? Fourth, did you see the last line of the article (actually labelled "Update") where Mike Reiss of ESPN points out that the 2010 Jets Defensive Playbook is available online and even provides a link? Now I have a copy of the Jets playbook too!
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/19/15 07:36 PM

Now I have a copy of the Jets playbook too!

Now if you can only go back in time and give it to the Pats...
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/19/15 07:40 PM

now there is also difference between illegal and cheating. While not specified in the Rules (I do not wish to check)most people will think that it is not the best sportsmanship to view your opponents playbook.

PS: there is a reason why Rex is no longer with the Jets.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/19/15 08:40 PM

So if it doesn't meet your standard of sportsmanship, it's cheating. Got it. Even if that means having a copy of a playbook widely available to everyone - still cheating. Got it. Thanks for clarifying. Enjoy another 11 months of "Defending Super Bowl Champion New England Patriots". I know I will.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/19/15 08:45 PM

verb
1 [no object] Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination: she always cheats at cards

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/cheat
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/19/15 08:46 PM

Funny too how the haters still turned this thread into being about the Patriots cheating even though the title said it wasn't.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/19/15 08:54 PM

Actually it was a bash of the NFL (and the way they go about handling evidence) that got this started today.

Why would they return the balls into service if they were deflated in the first place? that just boggles the mind.

PS: not a hater, not a fan of any team. Just like watching a well played game.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/19/15 08:56 PM

Originally Posted By: BeechFlyboy
Funny too how the haters still turned this thread into being about the Patriots cheating even though the title said it wasn't.


yes, the hypocrisy of those haters:

Originally Posted By: Sox in '13
Its the hypocrisy shemp. He railed on the Pats for deflate gate yet admits to cheating himself. You understand hypocrisy, don't you?

If the Pats are found guilty of deflating balls they should be penalized accordingly as they were with spygate.


Posted By: Bobby Boucher

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/19/15 09:24 PM

Originally Posted By: BeechFlyboy
Enjoy another 11 months of "Defending Super Bowl Champion New England Patriots". I know I will.

Yes, you do seem to enjoy defending them...

wink laugh
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/19/15 09:28 PM

Originally Posted By: edAudit
verb
1 [no object] Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination: she always cheats at cards

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/cheat
And who defines "unfair" and how do they do that? In this case, isn't it the league office and through issuance of a set of rules to be followed?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/19/15 09:33 PM

I am sure that the regulators have some unwritten rules somewhere that we must follow (review a few Regulatory reports and I am sure they can be found)
Posted By: Blade Scrapper

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/19/15 09:54 PM

Consult state law on the matter.
Posted By: Sinatra Fan

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/19/15 10:14 PM

Report them to the CFPB.


Constant Football Patriots Bloviators
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/20/15 03:46 PM

Happy retirement to Tim McClelland at least he tried to stand up for fair play in his rookie year

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseba...ticle-1.2121982
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/20/15 05:18 PM

We need to feminize men's sports!
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/20/15 05:34 PM

Bruce Jenner coming out of retirement?
Posted By: Sinatra Fan

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/20/15 06:16 PM

That would be sporting feminization rather than feminizing sports.
Posted By: Sound Tactic

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/23/15 10:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Sox in '13
Its the hypocrisy shemp. He railed on the Pats for deflate gate yet admits to cheating himself. You understand hypocrisy, don't you?

If the Pats are found guilty of deflating balls they should be penalized accordingly as they were with spygate.




Sure, and fair enough. But here is the problem I see. I see fans of a team trying to justify cheating because others did it. Then, if someone else cheated at one time, the new cheaters decry that the old cheaters have no moral ground to stand on and thus, cannot point the finger. Anyone can point the finger, past cheater or not.

The other problem I see is akin to the cheating at Penn State, Alabama, Ohio State etc. Cheating is a problem in major athletics and EVERYONE (including you) wants it removed. The problem is what happens when your team becomes the cheater. Then you want to litigate the problem. Oh well it is ok for me to complain about Johnny Manziel or Joe Paterno, but the moment someone levels criticism at my team, they are out of line.

The sad thing is that in the world we live in, right and wrong have been replaced with relative right and wrong. I don't know if NE is guilty in deflategate or not. But I do know they were guilty in spygate. Belicheck should have been banned then just like he should still be banned today.

Now you can go on justifying cheating all you want. I just want the game to return to sportsmanship.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/23/15 11:03 PM

Originally Posted By: Sound Tactic
I just want the game to return to sportsmanship.


too much money involved for this ever to happen...
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/24/15 01:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Sound Tactic
Originally Posted By: Sox in '13
Its the hypocrisy shemp. He railed on the Pats for deflate gate yet admits to cheating himself. You understand hypocrisy, don't you?

If the Pats are found guilty of deflating balls they should be penalized accordingly as they were with spygate.




Sure, and fair enough. But here is the problem I see. I see fans of a team trying to justify cheating because others did it. Then, if someone else cheated at one time, the new cheaters decry that the old cheaters have no moral ground to stand on and thus, cannot point the finger. Anyone can point the finger, past cheater or not.

The other problem I see is akin to the cheating at Penn State, Alabama, Ohio State etc. Cheating is a problem in major athletics and EVERYONE (including you) wants it removed. The problem is what happens when your team becomes the cheater. Then you want to litigate the problem. Oh well it is ok for me to complain about Johnny Manziel or Joe Paterno, but the moment someone levels criticism at my team, they are out of line.

The sad thing is that in the world we live in, right and wrong have been replaced with relative right and wrong. I don't know if NE is guilty in deflategate or not. But I do know they were guilty in spygate. Belicheck should have been banned then just like he should still be banned today.

Now you can go on justifying cheating all you want. I just want the game to return to sportsmanship.


If you read my posts, I have said from the beginning if they are found to have cheated, then they should pay the penalty as they did in 2007. I am not trying to justify anything.

I understand the reason the Pats are under this scrutiny given the past, but it is ridiculous how this story has changed from "the linebacker that intercepted the ball thought the psi was too low" to "a league official was stealing game balls and tried to replace one with a kicking ball". The NFL needs to get its stuff in one bag and get some procedures in place. It isn't very hard to check the footballs, document and secure them until game time.
Posted By: Sound Tactic

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/24/15 05:56 PM

In fairness to you, I was not referring to you, but was instead referring to the royal you.

However, I find it amazing how many people level opinions (this does include you and not the royal you), yet when criticism comes toward something they love, or a team they love, ask for everyone to look at the evidence first.

I will give you this evidence. At the time the NFL measured the footballs, 13 of the 14 were below the psi required. One of those balls was significantly below the PSI required for a game ball. I get that when you have 14 balls, some balls are going to be inflated differently. However, 13 of 14 seems very suspicious. Especially when a player on the other team thinks the psi on the ball is so noticeably suspicious that he says something. A lower PSI ball makes it much easier to catch a ball and throw a ball (particularly in the rain).

Now, months later, the NFL re-evaluated the balls and the psi seems like it might be fine. Why? Because they need them to be. Why? Because if they just gave a championship to a bunch of cheaters (which they did), then the entire product is suspect.

At this point, if I were any NFL team, I would just start cheating like crazy. Why? Because the NFL won't do anything about it. Start throwing picks on every pass just like NE does. Start doing anything you can to cheat. Your fans will justify it, or at a minimum act like they are waiting for the facts to come in. The NFL will try to marginalize it.

Honestly Goodell has to go.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/24/15 09:21 PM

If I understand you (not the royal you) correctly, I am wrong for wanting to wait for the evidence to decide if they cheated or not?

Here are some of the versions of deflategate:

1) player says ball is underinflated;
2) Harbaugh (Ravens coach) tipped off Pagano (former Ravens coach);
3) NFL set up a sting operation, sacrificing the first half of the AFC Championship game, to catch the Patriots cheating;
4) One ball is 2psi under inflated;
5) All balls are a few ticks under the minimum psi
6) Patriots attendant took the footballs into the mens room and in 90 seconds deflated the 14 footballs;

and on it goes....the twists and turns never end.

Maybe the "psi seems like it might be fine" because they were fine.

You apparently have inside information that no one else has given the "facts" you have stated. Until the Wells report comes out (for what that will be worth) I am not going to condemn them for cheating.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/24/15 09:28 PM

Here are some of the versions of deflategate:

1) player says ball is underinflated;
2) Harbaugh (Ravens coach) tipped off Pagano (former Ravens coach);
3) NFL set up a sting operation, sacrificing the first half of the AFC Championship game, to catch the Patriots cheating;
4) One ball is 2psi under inflated;
5) All balls are a few ticks under the minimum psi
6) Patriots attendant took the footballs into the mens room and in 90 seconds deflated the 14 footballs;

and on it goes....the twists and turns never end.


All true and a good way for the NFL to deflect the guilt from a SB winner. There may have been some changes if they lost.
Posted By: Sound Tactic

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/24/15 10:25 PM

Quote:
I am wrong for wanting to wait for the evidence to decide if they cheated or not?


Yes. You are wrong for applying different standards to different teams. We all are. I am not saying I know your mind and I am not saying I am any different. This happens all the time amongst sports fans. Just listen to sports radio or sports talking heads. The moment something happens everyone opines. Everyone is always right because they justify their position whether they are right or wrong.
Quote:
NFL set up a sting operation, sacrificing the first half of the AFC Championship game, to catch the Patriots cheating;


I doubt it.
Quote:
One ball is 2psi under inflated;


And was used significantly. Big important fact here.
Quote:
All balls are a few ticks under the minimum psi


It is still cheating. They give you a range so that QBs and a team can have a standard they want. I get NE wanted the balls a little flatter. The problem is that NE made sure that their balls were on the flat side. IE the flat side of the rule. Which is cheating.
Quote:
Patriots attendant took the footballs into the mens room and in 90 seconds deflated the 14 footballs;

I think he is your red herring don't you?
Quote:
Maybe the "psi seems like it might be fine" because they were fine.


Except they were not.

Quote:
You apparently have inside information that no one else has given the "facts" you have stated.


Ahhh you take the bait so well. I just leave it out there and you cannot resist proving my point so right.
Posted By: Sound Tactic

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/24/15 10:27 PM

See the problem with your strawman conspiracy is that from the very first number (1) none of that was needed to suspect the Pats of cheating then testing it. The only thing that was needed was for one colts player to intercept the ball. This guy has been playing football for a long time and noticed something so egregiously wrong with the ball. All he did was said something. Bang 2-6 no longer matter.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/25/15 01:42 PM

First of all, thank you for telling me how I should feel or react to a situation.

Secondly, my bullet points are all "versions" of this issue and my point was to illustrate that until the report comes out, I am not going to judge guilt one way or the other. I was not trying to imply any of those versions are right or wrong. Each of those are reports of what happened, whether they relate to the origin of deflate gate or what has happened along the way. It shows how ridiculous this can get.

The Colts linebacker has said he had nothing to do with deflate gate.

I should know better than to bother sparring with you and I don't care how you react or think about the situation. If you want to brand them cheaters, by all means go ahead.

Have a great day.
Posted By: Sound Tactic

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/25/15 01:47 PM

Quote:
First of all, thank you for telling me how I should feel or react to a situation.


I didn't. You did. You do it all the time. This time is different. It is your team. Now you want to slow down and reserve judgement. Seems inconsistent at best.

Quote:
I should know better than to bother sparring with you and I don't care how you react or think about the situation. If you want to brand them cheaters, by all means go ahead.


I was not aware this turned into a sparring session. If you want to treat similar cases similar, your next post would be the first case of that.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/25/15 01:52 PM

In more deflategate new: It has been reported that the Falcons are going to loose a second or third round draft pick and Michael Sam will be dancing with the so called stars.
Posted By: Peepers

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/25/15 02:39 PM

Originally Posted By: edAudit
In more deflategate new: It has been reported that the Falcons are going to loose a second or third round draft pick


perhaps they should tighten up their review of their actions when it comes to fake crowd noise
Posted By: Sound Tactic

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/25/15 04:37 PM

FWIW we I am guilty of the same logic as well as the rest of us. Maybe not in every circumstance but from time to time we jump to conclusions. It is natural and a perfectly logical way at dealing with life. If you need to review the evidence every time you make any decision you will starve to death.
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/25/15 08:02 PM

How was it that the Patriots were your average 1.6 to 1.8-fumble-per-game football team 1999-2006 and by 2007 not a single Patriot running back fumbled on a running play...as in NO rushing fumbles all season long...stretching into the post-season for all three playoff games as well? (And then that type of fumble-free patterns stretched not only three extra games, but eight YEARS!)
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/25/15 08:06 PM

Cheating.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/25/15 09:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Pale Rider
How was it that the Patriots were your average 1.6 to 1.8-fumble-per-game football team 1999-2006 and by 2007 not a single Patriot running back fumbled on a running play...as in NO rushing fumbles all season long...stretching into the post-season for all three playoff games as well? (And then that type of fumble-free patterns stretched not only three extra games, but eight YEARS!)



Thanks Pale

http://www.sportsgrid.com/nfl/deflated-f...fumble-numbers/

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blo...arly-impossible
Posted By: Sinatra Fan

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/25/15 09:47 PM

Originally Posted By: Pale Rider
How was it that the Patriots were your average 1.6 to 1.8-fumble-per-game football team 1999-2006 and by 2007 not a single Patriot running back fumbled on a running play...as in NO rushing fumbles all season long...stretching into the post-season for all three playoff games as well? (And then that type of fumble-free patterns stretched not only three extra games, but eight YEARS!)


What were the fumble averages of those earlier Patriot running backs in years when they played for another NFL team? And for the later, fumble-free Patriot running backs, what were their fumble averages when they played for other NFL teams?

In other words, was the improvement in fumble average attributable to the specific running backs involved, or was there another factor? Those statistics might be helpful in this discussion.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/25/15 09:48 PM

They played for the Jets and now for that Pats (nuff said). laugh
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/25/15 09:47 PM

Cheaters. All of them.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/25/15 09:51 PM

Originally Posted By: Sinatra Fan
Originally Posted By: Pale Rider
How was it that the Patriots were your average 1.6 to 1.8-fumble-per-game football team 1999-2006 and by 2007 not a single Patriot running back fumbled on a running play...as in NO rushing fumbles all season long...stretching into the post-season for all three playoff games as well? (And then that type of fumble-free patterns stretched not only three extra games, but eight YEARS!)


What were the fumble averages of those earlier Patriot running backs in years when they played for another NFL team? And for the later, fumble-free Patriot running backs, what were their fumble averages when they played for other NFL teams?

In other words, was the improvement in fumble average attributable to the specific running backs involved, or was there another factor? Those statistics might be helpful in this discussion.


Wrong approach SF. Don't bother to investigate or wait for evidence. Run with the headline.
Posted By: Stupendous Man

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/25/15 10:01 PM


Originally Posted By: edAudit
Originally Posted By: Pale Rider
How was it that the Patriots were your average 1.6 to 1.8-fumble-per-game football team 1999-2006 and by 2007 not a single Patriot running back fumbled on a running play...as in NO rushing fumbles all season long...stretching into the post-season for all three playoff games as well? (And then that type of fumble-free patterns stretched not only three extra games, but eight YEARS!)






Thanks Pale

http://www.sportsgrid.com/nfl/deflated-f...fumble-numbers/

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blo...arly-impossible



There are some issues with those findings:


fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/your-guide-to-deflate-gateballghai-related-statistical-analyses/


I havent been paying attention, but has anyone actually gone and filled up a football to the minimum, taken it outside to roughly the same temp as the game and seen how long (if ever) it took to deflate to whatever they were when the league pulled them?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/25/15 10:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Stupendous Man

Originally Posted By: edAudit
Originally Posted By: Pale Rider
How was it that the Patriots were your average 1.6 to 1.8-fumble-per-game football team 1999-2006 and by 2007 not a single Patriot running back fumbled on a running play...as in NO rushing fumbles all season long...stretching into the post-season for all three playoff games as well? (And then that type of fumble-free patterns stretched not only three extra games, but eight YEARS!)


If they did do that there would be no controversy. It is to simple of an approach and depending on the out come may not agree with the required outcome as set forth by Goodall (whichever that may be).




Thanks Pale

http://www.sportsgrid.com/nfl/deflated-f...fumble-numbers/

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blo...arly-impossible



There are some issues with those findings:


fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/your-guide-to-deflate-gateballghai-related-statistical-analyses/


I havent been paying attention, but has anyone actually gone and filled up a football to the minimum, taken it outside to roughly the same temp as the game and seen how long (if ever) it took to deflate to whatever they were when the league pulled them?
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/25/15 10:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Sinatra Fan
Originally Posted By: Pale Rider
How was it that the Patriots were your average 1.6 to 1.8-fumble-per-game football team 1999-2006 and by 2007 not a single Patriot running back fumbled on a running play...as in NO rushing fumbles all season long...stretching into the post-season for all three playoff games as well? (And then that type of fumble-free patterns stretched not only three extra games, but eight YEARS!)


What were the fumble averages of those earlier Patriot running backs in years when they played for another NFL team? And for the later, fumble-free Patriot running backs, what were their fumble averages when they played for other NFL teams?

In other words, was the improvement in fumble average attributable to the specific running backs involved, or was there another factor? Those statistics might be helpful in this discussion.


http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blo...for-other-teams

Individual players who played on New England during the 2007-14 span and on other teams fumbled 46% less often ON the Patriots as compared to on their other teams (98 touches/fumble on NE, 67 on other teams).

The players who played the MOST often for the Patriots during this span fumbled the ball TWICE as frequently on other teams as they did on the Patriots (107 touches/fumble on NE, 53 on other teams).

Individual players who played on the Patriots fumbled 88% more often after LEAVING the Patriots as they did when playing on the Patriots (105 touches/fumble on NE, 56 after NE on other teams).
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/25/15 10:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Stupendous Man

Originally Posted By: edAudit
Originally Posted By: Pale Rider
How was it that the Patriots were your average 1.6 to 1.8-fumble-per-game football team 1999-2006 and by 2007 not a single Patriot running back fumbled on a running play...as in NO rushing fumbles all season long...stretching into the post-season for all three playoff games as well? (And then that type of fumble-free patterns stretched not only three extra games, but eight YEARS!)






Thanks Pale

http://www.sportsgrid.com/nfl/deflated-f...fumble-numbers/

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blo...arly-impossible



There are some issues with those findings:


fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/your-guide-to-deflate-gateballghai-related-statistical-analyses/


I havent been paying attention, but has anyone actually gone and filled up a football to the minimum, taken it outside to roughly the same temp as the game and seen how long (if ever) it took to deflate to whatever they were when the league pulled them?


"Barry Bonds and Lance Armstrong were outliers." So now we knoe the Patriots were on Roids. shocked laugh

Based upon this and the reporting of this mess it is clear that
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/26/15 04:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Sound Tactic
See the problem with your strawman conspiracy is that from the very first number (1) none of that was needed to suspect the Pats of cheating then testing it. The only thing that was needed was for one colts player to intercept the ball. This guy has been playing football for a long time and noticed something so egregiously wrong with the ball. All he did was said something. Bang 2-6 no longer matter.
except that said intercepting player has publicly stated he didn't notice anything about the ball. Hmmmm.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/26/15 04:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Pale Rider
How was it that the Patriots were your average 1.6 to 1.8-fumble-per-game football team 1999-2006 and by 2007 not a single Patriot running back fumbled on a running play...as in NO rushing fumbles all season long...stretching into the post-season for all three playoff games as well? (And then that type of fumble-free patterns stretched not only three extra games, but eight YEARS!)
Where are you getting these statistics? ESPN season rushing stats for 2007 - http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/rushingFumbles/year/2007 - show the Patriots had 2 fumbles with one lost in '07. So did KC. Indy only had one rushing fumble that year. Must all have been cheating. Go toward through eight years, I can find no season in which Patriots didn't have any rushing fumbles. In fact, in no season except 2014 did they even lead the league in fewest fumbles. In fact, in 2013 they were tied for 5th most rushing fumbles. And in 2014, they led the league, but we're tied by the Giants who must also have been cheating.

One explanation for a reduction in rushing fumbles might be a change in how the process is coached. Belichick is notorious for benching running backs who fumble. In practice, he does things like soak the balls in buckets of ice water to challenge the running backs to hang on to the ball. They draft and sign running backs with ball control as a key measurement criteria. Those that want to see cheating will see cheating. But there are a myriad of non-cheating possibilities here.

Like Sox, I've never argued that the Patriots broke the rule on where you could videotape. They were punished for that and have moved on from that. Show me evidence that they manipulated the air in the footballs, and I'll be first in line to say they should be punished for that too.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/26/15 05:46 PM

Originally Posted By: Sinatra Fan
Those statistics might be helpful in this discussion.


clearly you have not been paying attention to this thread...we aren't looking for anything helpful...just hyping that cheater myth!:o
Posted By: Sinatra Fan

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/26/15 05:57 PM

Yeah, I know. I just like to be contrarian sometimes. smile
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/07/15 04:48 PM

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...-tests-is-easy/

is it that easy to beat the NFL?

do not wish to start the Patriot mess (the team is incidental) but if someone stupid enough to be in Hernandez situations can beat the system what on earth is the smarter NFLers doing?
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/09/15 06:34 PM

No question it's that easy to beat the NFL marijuana testing. It's a joke unless you're in the substance abuse program, then it becomes much harder to beat.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/28/15 07:50 PM

one down (no draft pick issue)

http://www.newsday.com/sports/football/j...evis-1.10343060

The Jets were fined $100,000 by the NFL for the December comments made by the team's owner about Darrelle Revis, according to a source. At the time, Revis was a member of the New England Patriots, but it didn't stop Johnson from expressing his desire to reunite with Revis.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/29/15 12:41 AM

Originally Posted By edAudit
one down (no draft pick issue)

http://www.newsday.com/sports/football/j...evis-1.10343060

The Jets were fined $100,000 by the NFL for the December comments made by the team's owner about Darrelle Revis, according to a source. At the time, Revis was a member of the New England Patriots, but it didn't stop Johnson from expressing his desire to reunite with Revis.
And the Patriots were fined NOTHING in the counterclaim tampering charges leveled against Robert Kraft by the Jets.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/29/15 10:40 AM

Why is that when Kraft did the exact thing?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/29/15 10:44 AM

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ap-source-jets-fined-100k-nfl-tampering-183208522--nfl.html

Kind of hard to find a non-ny or boston article that is not slanted
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/29/15 12:57 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
Why is that when Kraft did the exact thing?
Woody Johnson said "If I had known I could have signed him for what he signed with the Patriots for, I would have done it." That was blatant tampering. All Kraft said was "I wish he was still with us."
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/29/15 12:59 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
Why is that when Kraft did the exact thing?


Kraft is the man behind the curtain..


MUWAHAHAHAHA
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/29/15 01:09 PM

Pretty fine line on the tampering

the entire tampering rule should be tossed along with a lot of NFl rules
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/29/15 01:11 PM

I switched my brand of macaroni and cheese to Vevleeta from Kraft, I refuse to help that cheater make any more money...all other cheese is now Borden or Sargento, our house is Kraft free...if only the NFL were...
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/29/15 01:11 PM

I agree that the rule is foolish. However, it is clear what Woody Johnson said is completely different than what Kraft said.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/29/15 01:12 PM

"I speak as a fan of the New England Patriots, we wanted to keep him."
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/29/15 01:12 PM

$100,000? that's the beer revenue from one game from one concession stand, drop in the bucket. But likely gives the NFL as sense of accomplishment.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/29/15 01:20 PM

all kidding aside...the NFL system of fines is so arbitrary and seemingly has no foundation or merit to many decisions. Issues that look identical to many see great differences in punishment, if punishment is even meted out. Take the NO Saints "bounty-gate" as an example. Coach, GM, and several assistant coaches had bans of up to 1 year. 4 players also had bans, but appealed, and won on appeal that the NFL had no proof so the bans were overturned. Yet, the same NFL also refused to repeal the bans on the coaches and GM, who were punished with the same evidence the NFL said was non-existent for the players.

makes no sense at all.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/29/15 01:23 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
I switched my brand of macaroni and cheese to Vevleeta from Kraft, I refuse to help that cheater make any more money...all other cheese is now Borden or Sargento, our house is Kraft free...if only the NFL were...
You do know that Robert Kraft has absolutely no connection to Kraft Foods, right? Kraft made his money in the cardboard industry.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/29/15 01:31 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
I switched my brand of macaroni and cheese to Vevleeta from Kraft, I refuse to help that cheater make any more money...all other cheese is now Borden or Sargento, our house is Kraft free...if only the NFL were...
You do know that Robert Kraft has absolutely no connection to Kraft Foods, right? Kraft made his money in the cardboard industry.


yes, I just thought that since this thread had taken a turn for the ludicrous I would just pile on...
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/29/15 01:32 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
[quote=HappyGilmore] Kraft made his money in the cardboard industry.


That is not a very nice thing to say about Brady. laugh
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/29/15 01:43 PM

I agree with Happy on the discipline and fines. No consistency at all. Most of these penalties seem to be "lets throw it against the wall and see what sticks".
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/29/15 01:46 PM

and the deflatgate story will go down as no fine no draft picks as the NFL staff mishandled the balls. Not because of guilt or innocence.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/29/15 01:56 PM

And if it is determined the NFL employees mishandled the balls, why would no fine ($ or draft picks) be an issue? If it is found the team was involved, they should be penalized accordingly.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/29/15 02:09 PM

anyone really think at this point in time:

1) the NFL can make a determination on who was at fault
2) the NFL will assess blame on the team
3) fine the team
4) assess blame on NFL employee
5) discipline employee
6) do nothing

I vote option 1 & 6, too much time has expired, they can't determine anything and it just goes away
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/29/15 03:38 PM

Originally Posted By Sox in '13
And if it is determined the NFL employees mishandled the balls, why would no fine ($ or draft picks) be an issue? If it is found the team was involved, they should be penalized accordingly.


If they did cheat it would be a huge injustice to all the other teams that played by the rules (look at the bottom 10% records). Fines and draft picks are not going to help another team with a loss that should have been a win or a trip to the SB.

If they did not cheat they are due one of the biggest apologies from the NFL and individual players which will not happen.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/29/15 03:57 PM

The league should have appropriate punishments in place to deal with cheating, rule breaking etc.
Posted By: DD Regs

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/29/15 04:01 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
I switched my brand of macaroni and cheese to Vevleeta from Kraft, I refuse to help that cheater make any more money...all other cheese is now Borden or Sargento, our house is Kraft free...if only the NFL were...
You do know that Robert Kraft has absolutely no connection to Kraft Foods, right? Kraft made his money in the cardboard industry.


Kraft Mac N Cheese and Cardboard...same thing are the not smirk
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/29/15 04:02 PM

Originally Posted By Sox in '13
The league should have appropriate punishments in place to deal with cheating, rule breaking etc. and not be afraid to use them because one team is a larger revenue generator or more popular than another, the punishment is suitable for the level, and it is done timely


agreed with an addition in red
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/29/15 04:20 PM

Agreed Happy.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/29/15 04:37 PM

over the past few years I've really become indifferent to the NFL...between the protection of certain players (QBs), dumbing down of the rules, discrepancies among rules (what is a "football move" anyway?), subjectivity of penalties, much less the off field antics of the spoiled stars and how the NFL treats them...just really have better things to do on Sunday...the NFL is quickly heading the way of professional wrestling, an entertainment company with athletic performers...
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/29/15 05:00 PM

Originally Posted By Sox in '13
The league should have appropriate punishments in place to deal with cheating, rule breaking etc.


This from a league that has been around 95 years and can not determine what a catch is?
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/29/15 05:26 PM

It has gotten out of hand with some of these rules and the replay [censored]-when you can and when you can't challenge a play. Make it simple. 2 challenges per half per team on anything. Catch, fumble, penalty, whatever.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/29/15 05:54 PM

better yet, no challenges...worked for 85+ years...deal with it. A 60-minute game takes on average 3:35 to play, with a total of 9 minutes of action...boring...
Posted By: Sound Tactic

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/06/15 05:28 PM

This just in.... the NFL finds that the Pats purposely deflated the balls and Brady was aware. http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2015/05/06/nfl-finds-patriots-employees-probably-deflated-balls/
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/06/15 05:28 PM

just in time for the draft to be over (shocked)
Posted By: Sound Tactic

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/06/15 05:31 PM

Yeah they left the wording so vague as to basically give the Pats an out but recognize that they pretty much know they did it. Nothing like having your super bowl winners be cheaters yet again. I also highly doubt that employees were doing it, and Brady knew, yet Bill didn't.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/06/15 05:36 PM

Patriots owner Robert Kraft issued an immediate response, saying the organization is disappointed by the report, which lacked "any incontrovertible or hard evidence of deliberate deflation of footballs

Well of course there is no hard evidence it was deflated

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl...colts/22216585/
Posted By: Wolfy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/06/15 06:00 PM

The Email asking for the balls to be deflated was on a private server. ^_-
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/06/15 06:14 PM

Since it is a pig skin is it possible that they worked for peta and were tiring to release it into the wild?
Posted By: Sound Tactic

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/06/15 06:45 PM

NFL Nation reporter Dan Graziano says there is a "mountain of circumstantial evidence" regarding Tom Brady's probably involvement with deflating footballs, including text messages between the QB and Patriots' staffers.

So my question becomes, why is Tom not receiving punishment? Kick him and his feminine hands out of the NFL. The NFL does not need guys who cannot hold onto a real football.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/06/15 06:47 PM

they will give him a small token fine and hire his wife for a billboard at twice that amount.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/06/15 07:00 PM

Gotta say I'm highly disappointed in the probably fact that Brady did know about this and it was done at his pressuring. Also appears that the two equipment managers are highly culpable. I'm glad the rest of the organization does seem to be exonerated though. Very disappointing. Not going to make any excuses. The text messages between the equipment managers are pretty clear what was happening.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/06/15 07:10 PM

•Before the start of the season, McNally referred to himself as "the deflator" in a series of text messages between himself and Jastremski and warned that he was "not going to espn........yet."

"Nice dude....jimmy needs some kicks....lets make a deal.....come on help the deflator," McNally wrote.

On Jan. 10, immediately prior to the game between the Patriots and the Ravens, in the Patriots equipment room with both Brady and Jastremski present, McNally received two footballs autographed by Brady and also had Brady autograph a game-worn Patriots jersey that McNally previously had obtained," according to the report.
https://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinio...ve_a_big_needle


does anyone find it odd that the coach and front office was cleared instead of given the no evidence of wrong doing by coach and staff head office...?
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/06/15 07:54 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Gotta say...pretty clear what was happening.


you can say his about nearly anything cheating related and the Patriots, as recent history has shown...and the NFL turning deaf, dumb, and blind to their actions...
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/06/15 07:56 PM

I suppose those who were on here vehemently denying any cheating by the Patriots will be offering apologies and buying round of drinks in the virtual cooler this Friday... eek
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/06/15 08:00 PM

but it is clear that the Pats did not cheat only a low level equipment guy and the bath room attendant.
Posted By: PrimeTime

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/06/15 08:41 PM

Has any hard evidence actually been released? This sounds all to similar to the first round of accusations regarding this, when it was all talk with nothing substantial against them. It's great to say you have "a mountain of circumstantial evidence", but it's far better to actually show us what you've got. I'll probably be eating my words big time if/when it comes out, but this sounds like another witch hunt to me.

It also kind of sounds like the whole college football situation with bribes/college players getting paid/various scandals regarding eligibility. I'm in complete agreement that it ruins the integrity of the game and I'm not about that at all, however it's something that everyone does, but until you start winning too much nobody looks into it. When was the last investigation that was done on the Raiders?!

Disclaimer : I am a big Patriots fan. Don't hate us 'cuz you ain't us!
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/06/15 08:53 PM

but not everyone does it.

some tamper
some play with noise lever
some place bounties (or not)
some use PEDs
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/06/15 09:23 PM

with what is coming out now any reasonable person would believe that Brady ordered the code red and that Wells is no Tom Cruise or Demi Moore for that matter.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/06/15 09:24 PM

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/footba...ticle-1.2212663
Posted By: Sound Tactic

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/06/15 10:14 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
I suppose those who were on here vehemently denying any cheating by the Patriots will be offering apologies and buying round of drinks in the virtual cooler this Friday... eek


Not yet. A smart man once told me (jokerman) that admitting you are wrong is too hard of a pill for some to swallow. After hearing more about the report Brady should be banned from the NFL. He no doubt knew it, provided monetary reward (or things of value), and no one knows if he did it his entire career. The text messages tell too much information for Brady to deny it.

1) He broke the rules.
2) He knew he was breaking the rules.
3) He did so because he felt it gave him an advantage (probably did because of his female hands).
4) He attempted to cover it up.
5) He denied it and was not forthcoming with investigators.

The punishment for such a NFL rule violation should be massive and permanent.
Posted By: TMatt87

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/06/15 10:49 PM

Originally Posted By Sound Tactic
provided monetary reward (or things of value)


Sounds like we have a RESPA section 8 kickback violation to me
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/06/15 11:22 PM

I've been one of the most ardent Patriots supporters and I've already said how disappointed I am at this. Do I believe there was widespread rampant cheating? No. Do I believe Brady is involved? Absolutely. Not much respect for Brady at this point from me.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/07/15 01:12 PM

no need to suspend the 2 equipment guys after reading the e-mails it appears no way that the Patriots will keep them.
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/07/15 02:31 PM

I have been in Brady's corner too, given his college, but this goes beyond the old Pale.
Posted By: CompliantOkie

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/07/15 02:47 PM

I liked Brady and thought he was a good QB. However this cheating scandal is enough to make me hope he retires. And quickly.

Does anyone think this will keep him out of the HOF?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/07/15 03:18 PM

nope he is the golden boy
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/07/15 03:38 PM

A story is out that he may get a year suspension. Others say 2 games.
Posted By: DD Regs

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/07/15 04:32 PM

2 preseason games...
Posted By: Sound Tactic

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/07/15 04:50 PM

To be honest I was pretty sure all along that Belichek was culpable and I still think he may be. That said, after seeing the report I think that B may not be as culpable as I had previously thought. I figured Brady liked the balls on the small side and figured that he bent the rules but not by letting air out of the balls.

I think this hurts Brady's integrity and (although I had joked about it), I think small balls can give a team an advantage if your hands are smaller or maybe your grip strength is less than normal. It also helps reduce the number of fumbles (which is why I thought B had something to do with it).

Brady is one of the best game managers and decision makers playing QB that has ever played. He is not the best thrower, but when you play smart you don't need to be the best thrower. He did not need to deflate balls to be great. That said, as far as I am concerned this causes me to question anything he has ever done.

What I think speaks volumes is flyboy's responses. Obviously flyboy can be a fan and still know what is right and wrong. That is a rare commodity with today's sports fans, and I commend him for that. We have even witnessed it on our forums as some posters defended an obviously guilty Manziel and an obviously guilty Penn State program. Being able to separate fandom and good judgement can be difficult.

I think Brady should receive a lifetime ban. What he did put the integrity of the game into question.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/07/15 05:03 PM

http://247wallst.com/media/2015/05/07/what-will-happen-to-tom-brady-endorsement-deals/

Depending on the source, Tom Brady has as many as a half a dozen huge endorsement deals. Will he face the same problem Tiger Woods did after his scandal? Woods lost high-profile deals with AT&T Inc. (NYSE: T) and management consulting firm Accenture PLC (NYSE: ACN). The losses cost him millions. Brady’s “deflategate” scandal could put him in the same position as the world’s great golfer.




Brady’s endorsements include Uggs, Under Armour Inc. (NYSE: UA), Wheaties and Movado Group Inc. (NYSE: MOV), according to the TSM Plug sports site and other sources. Depending on the contracts, some may have morals clauses, and punishment by the NFL may allow the sponsors to walk away.


Read more: What Will Happen to Tom Brady's Endorsement Deals? - 24/7 Wall St. http://247wallst.com/media/2015/05/07/what-will-happen-to-tom-brady-endorsement-deals/#ixzz3ZTOU7Jfb
Follow us: @247wallst on Twitter | 247wallst on Facebook


why would you compare him to Woods?

Woods did not cheat in golf (just his wife)

Brady is still on the top of his game while woods was stating to fade.
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/07/15 05:41 PM

What Brady did was not much different that what major league baseball pitchers have been doing to doctor balls since the game began.

There are no lifetime or endorsement repucussions for the pitchers. Most likely will not be for Brady either, or the team for that matter.

This is small stuff. Fine 'em and move on. Brady should be ashamed and admit he lied while being in cahoots with the equipment guys.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/07/15 05:50 PM

but in baseball it is an expectation that the pitchers cheat it adds some sort of excitement to the game and gives the writers something to write about. a better analogy would be a corked bat though.
Posted By: Wolfy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/07/15 05:58 PM

Vegas pulled betting on the Pats 1st regular season game, or did I read that wrong. Seems they think he will get kicked from at least one regular game.
Posted By: PrimeTime

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/07/15 07:02 PM

So when cheating happens in baseball it's expected and exciting, but in any other sport it's not? To that point, isn't this doing the same exact thing? The writers are having an absolute field day with this stuff because the "facts" are changing with the wind.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/07/15 08:13 PM

So when cheating happens in baseball it's expected and exciting, but in any other sport it's not?

not exactly if soccer flopping is part of the game and in effect cheating.

Football use all the steroids you wish a month prior to training camp and that is all good.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/07/15 08:36 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
I've been one of the most ardent Patriots supporters and I've already said how disappointed I am at this. Do I believe there was widespread rampant cheating? No. Do I believe Brady is involved? Absolutely. Not much respect for Brady at this point from me.


Ditto
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/07/15 08:45 PM

to the ardent Patriots supporters do you really believe that Belechik did not know about this.

This is a real question as such I will not reply to your response one way or the other.

I personally do not believe that much gets by him.
Posted By: PrimeTime

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/07/15 08:52 PM

Personally, if I were a player, and trying to cheat, am I going to tell my coach? Probably not because he might try to stop me. But I also don't play professional sports.

That being said, Jim Boeheim's situation with Syracuse was one in which it was going on below him and he was aware of it and didn't do anything, same with Paterno (although both of those are completely different types of violations, I'm just saying that in all 3 instances the head coach was aware of a form of wrongdoing by someone below him in the organization.) Head coaches are aware of EVERYTHING at some level, so he had to have known.

At the end of the day knowing Brady and Belichik's relationship, if something truly did happen, Bill knew. And past situations make it extremely hard to say that he didn't know, fan or not.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/07/15 08:58 PM

I would say no for the following reason. In the press conference back in January, Belechik pretty much threw Brady under the bus when he told reporters that Tom would need to discuss his preferences as to how he liked the balls to be inflated. He never responds in that manner. JMHO.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/08/15 06:24 PM

I think Belichick has worked hard to be able to maintain "plausible deniability" on this.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/08/15 06:25 PM

I don't think Robert Kraft knew any of this, though.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/11/15 08:50 PM

The more I'm reading, the more I'm backing off my earlier comments and still thinking there is a frameup going on here. Read here: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/10/pressure-gauge-discrepancies-undermine-wells-report/

and here: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...ce-of-evidence/

Both discussions highlight how the methodology under which the NFL handled this invalidates any credibility to the findings. To get to the "more likely than not" scenario, you have to say that Referee Walt Coleman more likely than not doesn't correctly remember which gauge he used to measure the balls before the game.

Text messages can be explained through events such as one game where the referees had them playing with a ball overinflated to 16 psi and Brady not wanting that to happen again.

Maybe I haven't lost respect for Brady after all.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/11/15 09:11 PM

did the "Deflator" Play with the ball without bradys knowledge for over a year?

http://deadspin.com/the-hilarious-brady-bashing-texts-sent-by-the-pats-bal-1702598756

Yes, it was a poor excuse for an investigation but what did you expect?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/11/15 09:17 PM

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/08/ex-patriot-damien-woody-i-believe-tom-brady-cheated/
Posted By: DoS

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/11/15 09:41 PM

brady gets 4 games

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/deflate-gate-tom-brady-suspended-four-games-n357076
Posted By: Wolfy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/11/15 10:01 PM

Wow, I guess if this actually happens (remembers Viking player suspended a game for stepping on quarterback that was then lifted before it ever went into effect)I may think the NFL is serious about cleaning house.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 10:30 AM

only 4 games the "investigation" was much longer than that.

This is not the same as scuffing up a base ball. It would be the same as using a smaller ball that would be more difficult for the opposing batters to hit using it for at least 2 years and lying about it.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 11:46 AM

Originally Posted By edAudit
only 4 games the "investigation" was much longer than that.

This is not the same as scuffing up a base ball. It would be the same as using a smaller ball that would be more difficult for the opposing batters to hit using it for at least 2 years and lying about it.
Oh, it is not. Quit being such a whiner. First off, the other team used their own balls, not the one's the Patriots were supposedly deflating, so their opponents ability to score was not impeded at all. Second, where is your proof that the Patriots were deflating balls at all, much less for more than 2 years? The flawed report that dismisses Walt Coleman's best recollection because if they accept it, the numbers fit with weather conditions being able to have been the only factor to have impacted the balls?
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 11:49 AM

And I can provide you links to articles where ex-Patriots Tedy Bruschi and Troy Brown say they 100% believe Tom Brady had nothing to do with cheating. You have to remember too, Damien Woody played for a time with the Patriots - but where did he spend the final 3 years of his playing career?
Posted By: P*Q

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 12:06 PM

I never did.....the penalty is a little severe for his supposed violation when let's look at some other NFL players in the past and their punishments........plus, every other team does the same thing, they just haven't gotten caught and plus, they're the Patriots, anyone will find any reason to take them down for one reason or another. It's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. You're all entitled to yours.
Posted By: P*Q

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 12:07 PM

Tedy and Troy.....sigh....my two favorite Pats players ever!!! I miss them both in the game dearly!
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 12:11 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By edAudit
only 4 games the "investigation" was much longer than that.

This is not the same as scuffing up a base ball. It would be the same as using a smaller ball that would be more difficult for the opposing batters to hit using it for at least 2 years and lying about it.
Oh, it is not. Quit being such a whiner. First off, the other team used their own balls, not the one's the Patriots were supposedly deflating, so their opponents ability to score was not impeded at all. Second, where is your proof that the Patriots were deflating balls at all, much less for more than 2 years? The flawed report that dismisses Walt Coleman's best recollection because if they accept it, the numbers fit with weather conditions being able to have been the only factor to have impacted the balls?


Why would the equipment guy refer to himself as "the deflator" prior to the 2014 season if he had not deflated a ball or two. if the balls were deflated due to some mysterious weather pattern the balls of the other team would have been deflated as well. PS it is not whining to see a team punished for actual crimes committed.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 12:11 PM

The NFL has been very explicit over the years in their desire for league parity. They have structured draft rules, scheduling rules, and many others to try to force a level of parity to exist. They can't stand that over the past 15 years, in spite of all the attempted parity, the Patriots have dominated the league. There must be cheating going on, because no team can be that good. If you have an agenda to look for cheating you've already determined exists, you'll pretty much find it. But that holds true with any team, not just the Patriots.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 12:13 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
And I can provide you links to articles where ex-Patriots Tedy Bruschi and Troy Brown say they 100% believe Tom Brady had nothing to do with cheating. You have to remember too, Damien Woody played for a time with the Patriots - but where did he spend the final 3 years of his playing career?
on would think that the guy that snapped the ball would have an idea if it was deflated. Once again a Pats fan has blamed the Jets (a far worse team even if they used an unknown 5th string QB) for issues cause by team members.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 12:22 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By edAudit
only 4 games the "investigation" was much longer than that.

This is not the same as scuffing up a base ball. It would be the same as using a smaller ball that would be more difficult for the opposing batters to hit using it for at least 2 years and lying about it.
Oh, it is not. Quit being such a whiner. First off, the other team used their own balls, not the one's the Patriots were supposedly deflating, so their opponents ability to score was not impeded at all. Second, where is your proof that the Patriots were deflating balls at all, much less for more than 2 years? The flawed report that dismisses Walt Coleman's best recollection because if they accept it, the numbers fit with weather conditions being able to have been the only factor to have impacted the balls?


Why would the equipment guy refer to himself as "the deflator" prior to the 2014 season if he had not deflated a ball or two. if the balls were deflated due to some mysterious weather pattern the balls of the other team would have been deflated as well. PS it is not whining to see a team punished for actual crimes committed.

Crimes? Are you serious?

Deflator - Have you read the NY Times article about what goes into the preparations that Eli Manning directs for his game balls? Do you know how many times those balls are deflated and reinflated during the prep process? Could that be a reason to be termed the "deflator"? Or could it be referring to games such as the one referenced in the report where the officials gave them a game ball at 16 psi? Both seem at least possible explanations. Is cheating also a possible explanation? Yes, absolutely. But other plausible explanations exist also, and without corroborating scientific explanation, that doesn't hold true.

Other team's balls impacted by the weather - Go back and read my first PFT link - the Colts balls were impacted by the weather on at least one official's gauge (the report doesn't indicate which gauge). Plus they only tested 4 Colts balls compared to 11 Patriots balls (because they ran out of time). But anyone who is involved in audit should know that sample size impacts conclusions that can be drawn from the results. How do we know that the 4 balls tested of the Colts were not the highest pressure balls they had? We don't. Not to mention, the Patriot balls were tested first (because otherwise they would have run out of time on testing the Patriots balls). Meantime, the Colts balls were sitting back in the warm locker room for 10 minutes waiting to be tested. Do you think that might impact the air pressure?

All I'm saying is we've taken a lot of circumstantial evidence, overlooked key information to get to the conclusion everyone wants, and called it justice. I see it as a frame-up and a witch hunt.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 12:24 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
And I can provide you links to articles where ex-Patriots Tedy Bruschi and Troy Brown say they 100% believe Tom Brady had nothing to do with cheating. You have to remember too, Damien Woody played for a time with the Patriots - but where did he spend the final 3 years of his playing career?
on would think that the guy that snapped the ball would have an idea if it was deflated. Once again a Pats fan has blamed the Jets (a far worse team even if they used an unknown 5th string QB) for issues cause by team members.
Not blaming the Jests, just saying that there might be a bias to his analysis. One would also think the guy that caught more passes that just about any other human on the planet from Tom Brady would also know if the balls were deflated. One would also think that the umpires who handle and reset the game ball after every play would have an idea if it was deflated. But hey, if it doesn't fit with the agenda, we just ignore it.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 12:27 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
The NFL has been very explicit over the years in their desire for league parity. They have structured draft rules, scheduling rules, and many others to try to force a level of parity to exist. They can't stand that over the past 15 years, in spite of all the attempted parity, the Patriots have dominated the league. There must be cheating going on, because no team can be that good. If you have an agenda to look for cheating you've already determined exists, you'll pretty much find it. But that holds true with any team, not just the Patriots.


They must be cheating because they were cheating. The colts also had a pretty good past 10 years span and Pittsburgh won 2 SBs as well. The Pats are also in a division with both the Jets and the Dolphins two teams that have not had a good past 10 years.


I would not say that any team has dominated the past 10 years and where parity would be a reason to take anything out against any team,
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 12:30 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By edAudit
Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
And I can provide you links to articles where ex-Patriots Tedy Bruschi and Troy Brown say they 100% believe Tom Brady had nothing to do with cheating. You have to remember too, Damien Woody played for a time with the Patriots - but where did he spend the final 3 years of his playing career?
on would think that the guy that snapped the ball would have an idea if it was deflated. Once again a Pats fan has blamed the Jets (a far worse team even if they used an unknown 5th string QB) for issues cause by team members.
Not blaming the Jests, just saying that there might be a bias to his analysis. One would also think the guy that caught more passes that just about any other human on the planet from Tom Brady would also know if the balls were deflated. One would also think that the umpires who handle and reset the game ball after every play would have an idea if it was deflated. But hey, if it doesn't fit with the agenda, we just ignore it.
Weather you like it or not the ball was deflated even if it was caused by Gronk spiking it.
Posted By: PrimeTime

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 12:44 PM

But even if they were....the investigation didn't definitively prove it. They took all that time, gathered all that information, and all for what? Probably? That's great but I could have said he "probably" did it without doing any research. I think the suspension is harsh considering the fact that it's all based on maybe's and probably's.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 12:50 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
Weather you like it or not the ball was deflated even if it was caused by Gronk spiking it.
Not arguing that the Patriots balls at halftime of the Colts games were deflated. But deflated how much? Depends on which gauge you use. If you use the gauge that Walt Coleman says to the best recollection was the gauge he used before the game, the decrease at halftime is explainable by weather. If you dismiss Coleman's best recollection and go with the other gauge, then the matter becomes unexplainable by science alone, so you can conclude there must be cheating. So the NFL decides to go with that conclusion without any reasonable explanation for why they dismissed Coleman's best recollection.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 12:50 PM

Originally Posted By PrimeTime
But even if they were....the investigation didn't definitively prove it. They took all that time, gathered all that information, and all for what? Probably? That's great but I could have said he "probably" did it without doing any research. I think the suspension is harsh considering the fact that it's all based on maybe's and probably's.
Exactly!
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 12:51 PM

In Brady's case it was not about him deflating or not, it was about not cooperation with the investigation. The other guys they have enough evidence. PS how are you going to test the air in the ball from days, months weeks or years ago without the balls. Hence the more probable than not wording.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 12:53 PM

OK, so the league knew the day before the AFC Championship game that there were some suspicions about the balls. You would think, with that knowledge, if they were going to do something they would have made 100% sure they were using calibrated gauges both before and at halftime of the game. Instead, they used cheap, inconsistent gauges you can buy from any Walmart for a couple of bucks, and then don't even make a record of which gauge of two available that they relied on. If anyone should be penalized in this, it should be the NFL for being absolutely clueless on how to conduct a sting operation and ensuing investigation.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 12:55 PM

4 games suspension? I don't see that as much of an issue, seeing as he gets to spend more time at home with his super model wife...

Was there a pattern of deflation? Common sense says yes. Sure, you can say the guy calls himself the "deflator" because he continued to adjust the PSI in the balls, but using that same argument, why wouldn't he call himself the inflator? That argument sounds like one a 5-year old would make when busted getting cookies from the cookie jar - sure, no one saw him take the cookies, but the trail of crumbs lead to him and his shirt is covered in chips-ahoys...

Can it be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Well, as the NFL is a monopoly and they make the rules and follow them when they choose, then does it matter if reasonable doubt is established? They said the Patriots are guilty, then they are guilty. No question about it. End of story. Complain all you want, it won't change the NFL ruling.

Do I think that people on the coaching staff knew what was happening? At some level, I say yes, although maybe not to Belichick. Can I prove it? Nope. Can you prove they didn't know? Nope. Lots of "he said/she said" going on, but in the end, a weak punishment that the Patriots can try and get overturned, but in the end it won't change.

If anyone really thinks the NFL is doing this to knock the Patriots down a level or 2 because "they are just too good", then your conspiracy imagination is running rampant. I'll put this up there with "the NFL works the rules to make sure no home city plays in the superbowl." The NFL is about making money, and a successful franchise will always make more money than an unsuccessful one - they'd be shooting holes in their wallet by doing something like this.

Of course, an isolated winter supercell could have formed over the Patriots side of the stadium and caused the hyper-deflation - I understand that Robert Kraft has reached out to Al Gore to do a study on climate change and the impact on football deflation in an outdoor stadium. I'm sure we all eagerly anticipate the results.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 12:57 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
If anyone should be penalized in this, it should be the NFL for being absolutely clueless on how to conduct a sting operation and ensuing investigation.


thanks for the laugh, Jim. I needed that this morning...
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 12:58 PM

4 games suspension? I don't see that as much of an issue, seeing as he gets to spend more time at home with his super model wife.

could be a penalty against her.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 01:00 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
OK, so the league knew the day before the AFC Championship game that there were some suspicions about the balls. You would think, with that knowledge, if they were going to do something they would have made 100% sure they were using calibrated gauges both before and at halftime of the game. Instead, they used cheap, inconsistent gauges you can buy from any Walmart for a couple of bucks, and then don't even make a record of which gauge of two available that they relied on. If anyone should be penalized in this, it should be the NFL for being absolutely clueless on how to conduct a sting operation and ensuing investigation.


If the league knew about it I would have expected them to take charge of the balls to ensure that no funny business takes place as this was a playoff game not a preseason match.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 01:01 PM

I think the Patriots should go with:

1) Isolated winter supercell
2) Ghosts (everyone knows when ghosts are around the temps drop)

If the gauges were faulty, they would have been faulty for both teams.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 01:04 PM

I would expect for next year no one touches the balls all are under the supervision of league with no prep. This would lead to more interceptions more fumble's and possibly a more exciting game.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 01:05 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
OK, so the league knew the day before the AFC Championship game that there were some suspicions about the balls. You would think, with that knowledge, if they were going to do something they would have made 100% sure they were using calibrated gauges both before and at halftime of the game. Instead, they used cheap, inconsistent gauges you can buy from any Walmart for a couple of bucks, and then don't even make a record of which gauge of two available that they relied on. If anyone should be penalized in this, it should be the NFL for being absolutely clueless on how to conduct a sting operation and ensuing investigation.


If the league knew about it I would have expected them to take charge of the balls to ensure that no funny business takes place as this was a playoff game not a preseason match.
We've found common ground on which we can agree.
Posted By: PrimeTime

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 01:07 PM

The appeal process should be fun.


Also...what ever happened to the title of this thread.... frown
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 01:07 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore

If the gauges were faulty, they would have been faulty for both teams.
They were. Read the report. One thing you have to keep in mind is that the starting point for the Colts balls was higher than the starting point for the Patriots balls. You also have to keep in mind that the Colts balls sat in the warm locker room at halftime for 10 minutes before they were tested.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 01:07 PM

I am sure we agree on a lot her including the incompetence of the NFL.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 01:08 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
the decrease at halftime is explainable by weather


maybe, maybe not. If the balls were inflated and checked inside a locker room at a high temperature (high relative to outside temps), then yes, there would be some impact, but it would be minimal - less than 1 PSI lost.

But, if they were checked after inflation outside at temps, then there would be no impact, or a negligible amount.

As someone who officiates real football, often in very cold conditions, I can tell you that my experience is a ball pumped up indoors loses less than 5% PSI when taking it outdoors. If pumped up outdoors, then it loses nothing. Inflation amounts are similar, in real football I put 12 PSI in each ball, using my handy gauge that cost a whopping $8...every ball is inflated to 12 PSI, and unless the ball has a leak, they stay at 12 PSI. If there is a leak, it wouldn't drop to 10 PSI and stay there, it would drop to near empty.

although I may go with the ghosts option above
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 01:10 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By HappyGilmore

If the gauges were faulty, they would have been faulty for both teams.
They were. Read the report. One thing you have to keep in mind is that the starting point for the Colts balls was higher than the starting point for the Patriots balls. You also have to keep in mind that the Colts balls sat in the warm locker room at halftime for 10 minutes before they were tested.


in my experience, 10 minutes is not enough time to make a difference
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 01:17 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
the decrease at halftime is explainable by weather


maybe, maybe not. If the balls were inflated and checked inside a locker room at a high temperature (high relative to outside temps), then yes, there would be some impact, but it would be minimal - less than 1 PSI lost.

But, if they were checked after inflation outside at temps, then there would be no impact, or a negligible amount.

As someone who officiates real football, often in very cold conditions, I can tell you that my experience is a ball pumped up indoors loses less than 5% PSI when taking it outdoors. If pumped up outdoors, then it loses nothing. Inflation amounts are similar, in real football I put 12 PSI in each ball, using my handy gauge that cost a whopping $8...every ball is inflated to 12 PSI, and unless the ball has a leak, they stay at 12 PSI. If there is a leak, it wouldn't drop to 10 PSI and stay there, it would drop to near empty.

although I may go with the ghosts option above
So the science doesn't matter, then. Here's what the PFT analysis had to say:

Quote:
As those of you who were visiting PFT frequently in the early days of #DeflateGate may recall, the Ideal Gas Law refers to the formula that determines the changes in gases based on various factors, including but not limited to volume, pressure, and temperature. And the Wells report concludes that all Patriots footballs should have measured between 11.52 and 11.32 PSI at halftime.

But that observation hinges on the question of which gauge was used to set the PSI prior to kickoff. If the gauge that generates the higher numbers was used, the measurements of the Patriots footballs taken by that gauge are mostly consistent with the 11.52-11.32 PSI range at halftime: (1) 11.8; (2) 11.2; (3) 11.5; (4) 11.0; (5) 11.45; (6) 11.95; (7) 12.3; (8) 11.55; (9) 11.35; (10) 10.9; and (11) 11.35.

Based on those readings, three of the footballs were above the predicted range, five were in the predicted range, and three were below the predicted range.

By assuming that the gauge that generates the lower readings was used before the game began, the readings taken by that same gauge at halftime show that one ball was above the predicted range, two were in the predicted range, and eight were below the predicted range. Which is more consistent with the conclusion that some degree of tampering occurred.

So, basically, the scientific proof of tampering hinges on a literal coin flip between the pressure gauge that generated a higher reading and the pressure gauge that generated a lower reading. Apart from the very real problems inherent to the NFL using pressure gauges that generate such dramatically different readings for a key postseason game, the justification used to assume that Walt Anderson used before kickoff the gauge that makes tampering more likely doesn’t feel like the outcome of a scientific experiment. It feels like an effort to work backward to justify a predetermined conclusion.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 01:36 PM

That quote was as fake as the quotes against him prior to the we;;s report (Not meaning your post was fake just the hoopla in the press prior to the actual report)

Each of the eleven
Patriots balls tested at halftime measured below the minimum 12.5 psi level
established by the Playing Rules on both gauges. Each of the four Colts balls
tested measured within the permissible 12.5 to 13.5 psi range on at least one of
the gauges. The

https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/201...-championsh.pdf
Posted By: MB Guy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 02:23 PM

Happy is exactly right. The Patriots bend the rules and this time they got caught. NFL did what they term an "investigation" and I believe they left it intentionally vague just to protect their cash making machine. They'll dish out their punishment and everything will go back to the same. So maybe the Pats come out 2/4 or even 1/4, they still have a shot at the playoffs and life moves on.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 02:25 PM

so if I read the "science" behind the PFT point you posted, either way they had too many balls under inflated at halftime...be it 3 or 8...

not sure i'm understanding the point you are trying to make. Maybe that they cheated but not as much as the NFL claims?
Posted By: MyBrainHurts

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 02:37 PM

Let me get this straight.

Patriots are fined $1 Mil.

Brady sits, saving Patriots $2 Mil in salary.

Patriots are up $1 Mil, and they have a fresh, healthy quarterback for the Colts game.

How did they get penalized?
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 02:42 PM

My point is that there are flaws to the data so you don't get to pick and choose which parts of the data you believe. So let's say that deliberate deflation did occur. If you accept that Walt Coleman says every single Patriots ball was at 12.5 before the game, and if you accept that weather causes the pressure to drop in all of the balls, to an scientifically expected 11.5 - 11.32 range, how do you explain the 12.3 psi ball? Was Coleman wrong? Was at least one ball over 12.5 to start the game? Did McNally add air to that particular ball? Or is it possible that the whole process of checking pressure before the game and checking pressure at halftime was so filled with flaws that it invalidates all of the pressure data?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 02:42 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
so if I read the "science" behind the PFT point you posted, either way they had too many balls under inflated at halftime...be it 3 or 8...

not sure i'm understanding the point you are trying to make. Maybe that they cheated but not as much as the NFL claims?



Wells report claims 11 of 12 as they did not count the one that the Colts tested
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 02:44 PM

Originally Posted By MyBrainHurts
Let me get this straight.

Patriots are fined $1 Mil.

Brady sits, saving Patriots $2 Mil in salary.

Patriots are up $1 Mil, and they have a fresh, healthy quarterback for the Colts game.

How did they get penalized?
How many games do they lose while Brady sits? What impact on the long-term strength of the team do the forfeited draft picks have?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 02:44 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
My point is that there are flaws to the data so you don't get to pick and choose which parts of the data you believe. So let's say that deliberate deflation did occur. If you accept that Walt Coleman says every single Patriots ball was at 12.5 before the game, and if you accept that weather causes the pressure to drop in all of the balls, to an scientifically expected 11.5 - 11.32 range, how do you explain the 12.3 psi ball? Was Coleman wrong? Was at least one ball over 12.5 to start the game? Did McNally add air to that particular ball? Or is it possible that the whole process of checking pressure before the game and checking pressure at halftime was so filled with flaws that it invalidates all of the pressure data?


My point would be why would you allow a team to have the opportunity to adjust the balls? (just because Brady and Manning requested it?)
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 02:45 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By MyBrainHurts
Let me get this straight.

Patriots are fined $1 Mil.

Brady sits, saving Patriots $2 Mil in salary.

Patriots are up $1 Mil, and they have a fresh, healthy quarterback for the Colts game.

How did they get penalized?
How many games do they lose while Brady sits? What impact on the long-term strength of the team do the forfeited draft picks have?


the more games they lose the better the next draft pick is.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 02:46 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
so if I read the "science" behind the PFT point you posted, either way they had too many balls under inflated at halftime...be it 3 or 8...

not sure i'm understanding the point you are trying to make. Maybe that they cheated but not as much as the NFL claims?



Wells report claims 11 of 12 as they did not count the one that the Colts tested


and why was the fact that the colts test one only now coming to light?
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 02:48 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
Wells report claims 11 of 12 as they did not count the one that the Colts tested
Wells report could have said with equal accuracy "3 of 11 balls tested were below the expected range on one of the gauges used". Which quote produces more emotional buy-in to the desired outcome conclusion when combined with other circumstantial evidence?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 02:49 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By edAudit
Wells report claims 11 of 12 as they did not count the one that the Colts tested
Wells report could have said with equal accuracy "3 of 11 balls tested were below the expected range on one of the gauges used". Which quote produces more emotional buy-in to the desired outcome conclusion when combined with other circumstantial evidence?


so then at least 8 we can say?
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 02:50 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
the more games they lose the better the next draft pick is.
Which said draft pick is forfeited, so what does it matter how good it is? The short term penalty against the Patriots is possible losses. The long term penalty against the Patriots is lost draft picks, made worse by the fact that with the losses, those picks would have been higher picks.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 02:51 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By edAudit
Wells report claims 11 of 12 as they did not count the one that the Colts tested
Wells report could have said with equal accuracy "3 of 11 balls tested were below the expected range on one of the gauges used". Which quote produces more emotional buy-in to the desired outcome conclusion when combined with other circumstantial evidence?


so then at least 8 we can say?
Or you could say "only 3". Why choose to only say one of the possible outcomes (which by the way is the one that supports your conclusions)?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 02:52 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By edAudit
the more games they lose the better the next draft pick is.
Which said draft pick is forfeited, so what does it matter how good it is? The short term penalty against the Patriots is possible losses. The long term penalty against the Patriots is lost draft picks, made worse by the fact that with the losses, those picks would have been higher picks.


They could pick a Johnny football or a Ryan leaf so draft picks are really an unknown. Why did the report come out days after the current draft?
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 02:53 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
Why did the report come out days after the current draft?
Because the NFL is incompetent.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 02:54 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By edAudit
Why did the report come out days after the current draft?
Because the NFL is incompetent.


That would be the reason that they let Manning and Brady dictate the stupid rule in the first place.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 02:57 PM

new rule as per me

NFL pumps up the balls using 1 gauge to 13.0 t/- .1 out of the box from Wilson and hands it to the on field official.

Here you go play ball. Same ball(s) for kicking teams.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 02:57 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
My point is that there are flaws to the data so you don't get to pick and choose which parts of the data you believe. So let's say that deliberate deflation did occur. If you accept that Walt Coleman says every single Patriots ball was at 12.5 before the game, and if you accept that weather causes the pressure to drop in all of the balls, to an scientifically expected 11.5 - 11.32 range, how do you explain the 12.3 psi ball? Was Coleman wrong? Was at least one ball over 12.5 to start the game? Did McNally add air to that particular ball? Or is it possible that the whole process of checking pressure before the game and checking pressure at halftime was so filled with flaws that it invalidates all of the pressure data?


I'll stick with "ghosts are responsible" unless the Al Gore study proves otherwise
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 02:58 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
That would be the reason that they let Manning and Brady dictate the stupid rule in the first place.

Yet another point of agreement. Although it wasn't just Brady and Manning. They were the spokespeople for a lot of other QBs who also were vocal in wanting the change. If the condition, including the pressure, is important to the league, then the league should control the balls. If the condition, including the pressure isn't important, then why have the rule to begin with.

Ed, you and I will have to get together at some point and verbally debate this over a couple of adult beverages. I think I would enjoy that very much.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 03:01 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
My point is that there are flaws to the data so you don't get to pick and choose which parts of the data you believe. So let's say that deliberate deflation did occur. If you accept that Walt Coleman says every single Patriots ball was at 12.5 before the game, and if you accept that weather causes the pressure to drop in all of the balls, to an scientifically expected 11.5 - 11.32 range, how do you explain the 12.3 psi ball? Was Coleman wrong? Was at least one ball over 12.5 to start the game? Did McNally add air to that particular ball? Or is it possible that the whole process of checking pressure before the game and checking pressure at halftime was so filled with flaws that it invalidates all of the pressure data?


I'll stick with "ghosts are responsible" unless the Al Gore study proves otherwise


To properly decide Mr. Gore will need to have scientist check the pressure in the balls in Miami and Tampa bay (tie breaker goes to Denver) to determine the appropriated pressure of the balls in N England then he will preside over a commission that will sell credits from the underinflated balls to the overinflated balls receiving a commission on each transaction.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 03:02 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By edAudit
That would be the reason that they let Manning and Brady dictate the stupid rule in the first place.

Yet another point of agreement. Although it wasn't just Brady and Manning. They were the spokespeople for a lot of other QBs who also were vocal in wanting the change. If the condition, including the pressure, is important to the league, then the league should control the balls. If the condition, including the pressure isn't important, then why have the rule to begin with.

Ed, you and I will have to get together at some point and verbally debate this over a couple of adult beverages. I think I would enjoy that very much.


A beer summit I am in. laugh
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 03:09 PM

I will also think that the Pats will do well in the first four games without brady. They do not face the Colts until game 5 (four game suspension and not five? Hmmm.

Then the Jets and Miami (the jets are much improved in defense so they will need a quality QB but can use a local HS or JHSs defense against the Offence.)
Posted By: DD Regs

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 03:30 PM

If this penalty isn't spelled out in the collective bargaining agreement, then the players association will appeal the penalty on Brady's behalf, as they did with Rice, and Peterson and get the penalty reduced or eliminated.
Posted By: Peepers

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 04:04 PM

I think it's pretty obvious.

The only sufficient penalty is that Brady's right hand should be chopped off...........just like the Kingslayer
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 06:34 PM

I kept calling the referee Walt Coleman in my earlier posts today. Got my NFL referee Walts mixed up. The referee in questions is Walt Anderson, not Walt Coleman. Just trying to be accurate (not necessarily a hallmark of the NFL).
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 06:36 PM

no one here is concerned with accuracy, clearly
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 09:34 PM

http://nypost.com/2015/05/12/pats-fans-arrested-protesting-brady-ban-at-nfl-offices/
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/12/15 09:37 PM

So it now appears that the Wells report cost more than the fine.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/13/15 02:37 PM

a "go fund me" account has been set up for fans of the Cheatriots to pay the $1mm...of course, the NFL has rules against this (not that the Cheatriots have ever played by other rules that are in place)
Posted By: noelekal

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/13/15 02:45 PM

I can't generate much desire to care about anything the NFL does but Cheatriots has a nice ring to it. Is that original to you, Happy? Maybe it'll catch on in media and you can take the credit.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/13/15 03:00 PM

just popped into my head...like so many other random thoughts to...
Posted By: #ONENANA

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/13/15 03:22 PM

Snap out of it Happy!
Posted By: MyBrainHurts

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/13/15 03:25 PM

One good thing to come out of all of this is that the NFL will have two starting QBs from my alma mater, Eastern Illinois University, Romo and Garoppolo.
Posted By: PrimeTime

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/13/15 03:26 PM

Perhaps some Haterade should be served wink
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/13/15 05:14 PM

Originally Posted By PrimeTime
Perhaps some Haterade should be served wink


not a fan or season ticket holder of the Cheatriots, so no need for me to drink any haterade...
Posted By: Hobbes

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/13/15 06:23 PM

Now some are calling him Tom "Shady".

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdo...-213147982.html
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/13/15 06:23 PM

http://nypost.com/2015/05/13/brady-used-deflated-footballs-back-in-2004-opposing-qb/

Brady used deflated footballs back in 2004: opposing QB

Yes, it is from a NY Paper
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/13/15 07:07 PM

hmmm...so we saw a poster comment earlier that the Cheatriots have been at the top of the league for the past 10 years...now we have a news story from a former QB that details cheating *gasp* 10 years ago...hmmm...coincidence?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/13/15 07:10 PM

That is a terrible thing to say 10 years ago it may not have been cheating he could have simply bribed the ball boy.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/13/15 07:43 PM

Happy, I said 15 years. And just because A.J. Feeley says today that it happened 11 years ago doesn't prove anything happened 11 years ago. Why is he just now bringing it up? Brad Johnson admits to scuffing his balls up in 2002. Where is the outrage? Aaron Rodgers admits liking his balls to be over the 13.5 psi. Where is the outrage? Fact is, PSI has been in the rule book since at least the 1940's but has never been something the NFL even paid close attention to until it decided to make an example of the Patriots. Even as late as last season when both the Panthers and Vikings were televised heating balls on the sidelines during a particularly frigid game, the league simply told them to stop doing that. Where is the outrage?
Posted By: PrimeTime

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/13/15 07:47 PM

Didn't Trent Dilfer state on an ESPN analysis of the whole event that literally every quarterback has a routine with the balls each week (my goodness that sounds bad)in which they do various things to them (this is getting worse) in order to enhance their play? I recall him stating that whether it's shaving, softening, etc. every quarterback in the NFL now, then, forever, has a routine in which they attempt to alter the ball in some way shape or form.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/13/15 07:49 PM

And by the way, the Cheatriots thing is definitely not original. Urban Dictionary from 2007: www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cheatriots In fact, it's pretty old and worn out by now.
And aren't the Saints guilty of some "cheating" themselves in their recent past? And how about the Falcons and Browns. And didn't the Seahawks have a lot of issues with PEDs? And how about salary cap cheating by the Broncos? And..And..And..

Sure, the "everyone does it" doesn't make it right. But you'd be hard pressed to find a team in competitive sports that hasn't tripped up on rules violations in some form or another by intentionally trying to find a competitive edge.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/13/15 07:49 PM

Originally Posted By PrimeTime
Didn't Trent Dilfer state on an ESPN analysis of the whole event that literally every quarterback has a routine with the balls each week (my goodness that sounds bad)in which they do various things to them (this is getting worse) in order to enhance their play? I recall him stating that whether it's shaving, softening, etc. every quarterback in the NFL now, then, forever, has a routine in which they attempt to alter the ball in some way shape or form.
Yes. Yes he did. Thank you.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/13/15 07:52 PM

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/5_2013_Ball.pdf

no mention of warming of the balls (unless it affects the size or psi)


This was not reported but claimed by the press that the teams can adjust the PSI (for reference only no issue was made with the K balls)
For all games, eight new footballs, sealed in a special box and shipped by the manufacturer to
the Referee, will be opened in the officials’ locker room two hours and 15 minutes prior to the starting time of the game.
These balls are to be specially marked by the Referee and used exclusively for the kicking game.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/13/15 07:54 PM

If they just followed the K ball rule for the QB ball this would not be an issue but Manning and Brady (possibly others that are nameless) got their way
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/13/15 08:03 PM

as for diffler his last year was 07 and there would have been only 1 year to personally see ALL the QBs doctoring the balls.

unless he somehow had access to ALL QBs illegally doctoring balls on teams where he was not a current member I would doubt he has first hand knowledge to this story.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/13/15 08:03 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Happy, I said 15 years. And just because A.J. Feeley says today that it happened 11 years ago doesn't prove anything happened 11 years ago.

doesn't mean it didn't, either

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Why is he just now bringing it up?

because he is looking to resurrect a broadcasting career?

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Brad Johnson admits to scuffing his balls up in 2002. Where is the outrage?

i'm working on my outrage now

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Aaron Rodgers admits liking his balls to be over the 13.5 psi. Where is the outrage?

liking it and doing it are 2 different things...if they prove he does it, i'll up my "who cares" to a "mild outrage"

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Fact is, PSI has been in the rule book since at least the 1940's but has never been something the NFL even paid close attention to until it decided to make an example of the Patriots.

hmmm...crux of the argument?

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Even as late as last season when both the Panthers and Vikings were televised heating balls on the sidelines during a particularly frigid game, the league simply told them to stop doing that. Where is the outrage?

heating is not an issue unless it alters the PSI above/below approved levels.
Posted By: Peepers

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/13/15 08:06 PM

Originally Posted By PrimeTime
Didn't Trent Dilfer state on an ESPN analysis of the whole event that literally every quarterback has a routine with the balls each week (my goodness that sounds bad)in which they do various things to them (this is getting worse) in order to enhance their play? I recall him stating that whether it's shaving, softening, etc. every quarterback in the NFL now, then, forever, has a routine in which they attempt to alter the ball in some way shape or form.


this never really did recover after sentence #1
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/13/15 08:07 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
And by the way, the Cheatriots thing is definitely not original. Urban Dictionary from 2007: www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cheatriots In fact, it's pretty old and worn out by now.

darn, and here I was thinking I was an original

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
And aren't the Saints guilty of some "cheating" themselves in their recent past?

yep, there was an accusation that was overturned on appeal against the players. likely the coaches/GM would have been overturned as well but they don't have a collective bargaining agreement that allows an appeal.

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
And how about the Falcons and Browns.

I believe you are correct
Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
And didn't the Seahawks have a lot of issues with PEDs? And how about salary cap cheating by the Broncos?

not familiar with either of these

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Sure, the "everyone does it" doesn't make it right. But you'd be hard pressed to find a team in competitive sports that hasn't tripped up on rules violations in some form or another by intentionally trying to find a competitive edge.

not sure I understand the point here unless it is to say we should just ignore it because everyone does it even if it doesn't make it right
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/13/15 08:08 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Happy, I said 15 years. And just because A.J. Feeley says today that it happened 11 years ago doesn't prove anything happened 11 years ago.

doesn't mean it didn't, either

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Why is he just now bringing it up?

because he is looking to resurrect a broadcasting career?

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Brad Johnson admits to scuffing his balls up in 2002. Where is the outrage?

i'm working on my outrage now

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Aaron Rodgers admits liking his balls to be over the 13.5 psi. Where is the outrage?

liking it and doing it are 2 different things...if they prove he does it, i'll up my "who cares" to a "mild outrage"

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Fact is, PSI has been in the rule book since at least the 1940's but has never been something the NFL even paid close attention to until it decided to make an example of the Patriots.

hmmm...crux of the argument?

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Even as late as last season when both the Panthers and Vikings were televised heating balls on the sidelines during a particularly frigid game, the league simply told them to stop doing that. Where is the outrage?

heating is not an issue unless it alters the PSI above/below approved levels.


I beg to differ with you argument;

If you heat the ball enough it could catch fire and change the diameter or shrink, possibly not altering the psi above or below the league standards. Other than that I concur.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/13/15 08:10 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
And by the way, the Cheatriots thing is definitely not original. Urban Dictionary from 2007: www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cheatriots In fact, it's pretty old and worn out by now.

darn, and here I was thinking I was an original

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
And aren't the Saints guilty of some "cheating" themselves in their recent past?

yep, there was an accusation that was overturned on appeal against the players. likely the coaches/GM would have been overturned as well but they don't have a collective bargaining agreement that allows an appeal.

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
And how about the Falcons and Browns.

I believe you are correct
Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
And didn't the Seahawks have a lot of issues with PEDs? And how about salary cap cheating by the Broncos?

not familiar with either of these

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Sure, the "everyone does it" doesn't make it right. But you'd be hard pressed to find a team in competitive sports that hasn't tripped up on rules violations in some form or another by intentionally trying to find a competitive edge.

not sure I understand the point here unless it is to say we should just ignore it because everyone does it even if it doesn't make it right


That last line should be in the thing you should not say to a Co thread.
Posted By: noelekal

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/13/15 09:02 PM

"Sure, the "everyone does it" doesn't make it right. But you'd be hard pressed to find a team in competitive sports that hasn't tripped up on rules violations in some form or another by intentionally trying to find a competitive edge."

I know that this entire thread is not conducive to kindling any desire I may have had to again take up watching NFL football.
Posted By: Sinatra Fan

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/13/15 10:40 PM

Originally Posted By noelekal
"Sure, the "everyone does it" doesn't make it right. But you'd be hard pressed to find a team in competitive sports that hasn't tripped up on rules violations in some form or another by intentionally trying to find a competitive edge."


In this way, professional sports is certainly symptomatic of our society in general, from companies to individuals.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/14/15 12:36 PM

Originally Posted By Sinatra Fan
Originally Posted By noelekal
"Sure, the "everyone does it" doesn't make it right. But you'd be hard pressed to find a team in competitive sports that hasn't tripped up on rules violations in some form or another by intentionally trying to find a competitive edge."


In this way, professional sports is certainly symptomatic of our society in general, from companies to individuals.
Not just professional sports - I think you'd be challenged to find any major conference college football program without similar rules violations. And we've seen it happen even in Little League baseball.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/14/15 12:44 PM

Deliberate tampering with a game ball is a tad more than a rules violation.

Rules violation = to many players on the field or other minor infraction
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/14/15 12:45 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy

And we've seen it happen even in Little League baseball.


and this is likely the saddest statement ever made...can't even let kids just be kids and play for the love of the game
Posted By: Sinatra Fan

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/14/15 01:15 PM

Word. frown
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/14/15 01:16 PM

if they do not learn how to cheat in Little League how do they expect to be good cheaters later in life?
Posted By: noelekal

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/14/15 01:30 PM

Yeah and if they don't learn to be good cheaters then they'll have to resort to cheating to be a cheater and we can't have that.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/14/15 01:51 PM

If brady was taught how to cheat in "Pop Warner" we would not be talking about this today as he would not have gotten caught.
Posted By: PrimeTime

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/14/15 03:00 PM

Technically he still didn't get caught. He "probably" got caught.
Posted By: Wolfy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/14/15 03:01 PM

All this cheating and getting caught talk has me thinking about golf again wink
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/14/15 03:10 PM

Originally Posted By PrimeTime
Technically he still didn't get caught. He "probably" got caught.

and Bonds probably took steroids at least one in his lifetime. shocked
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/14/15 03:24 PM

We all fall short of the glory, no doubt about that. But we should strive to live by the rules and play fair, whether you are in t-ball or in the pros.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/14/15 03:30 PM

Originally Posted By Pale Rider
We all fall short of the glory, no doubt about that. But we should strive to live by the rules and play fair, whether you are in t-ball or in the pros.


But playing fair does not get you past the ravens. smirk
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/14/15 04:39 PM

http://nypost.com/2015/05/14/patriots-publish-wells-report-rebuttal-deflate-meant-weight-loss/

This is getting like the OJ trial you know he is guilty but can he beat the system.

Posted By: Sound Tactic

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/14/15 05:57 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Happy, I said 15 years. And just because A.J. Feeley says today that it happened 11 years ago doesn't prove anything happened 11 years ago. Why is he just now bringing it up? Brad Johnson admits to scuffing his balls up in 2002. Where is the outrage? Aaron Rodgers admits liking his balls to be over the 13.5 psi. Where is the outrage? Fact is, PSI has been in the rule book since at least the 1940's but has never been something the NFL even paid close attention to until it decided to make an example of the Patriots. Even as late as last season when both the Panthers and Vikings were televised heating balls on the sidelines during a particularly frigid game, the league simply told them to stop doing that. Where is the outrage?


After reading your post earlier condemning Brady I thought you had come to the conclusion that there was cheating. But after reading this, it seems more like justification, blame, denial and pointing fingers. No one is framing the Patriots. They cheated (again) and got caught.
Posted By: Wolfy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/14/15 06:38 PM

Define "deflate" and "is" please
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/14/15 07:27 PM

And of course the ball boy was known as the "deflator" in emails because he had lost sooooooooooo much weight, yeah right.....
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/15/15 02:50 PM

http://wellsreportcontext.com/

Some of this makes sense. Some of it is just dumb (like the "deflator" being related to losing weight).

At the end of the day, I don't know if they manipulated air pressure or not. I've heard good, compelling arguments on both sides. I get that many people, who either already believe the Patriots are a pathologically cheating organization, or have only heard one side of the legitimate arguments, will think it's plain that they cheated here. As someone who wants to believe that they didn't cheat, even I have doubts, so I get why so many are adamant that they did.

But I do think if you had a jury trying this, with a standard of preponderance of evidence, I think you'd wind up with a jury deadlocked at 10 - 2 or 9 - 3 for conviction.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/15/15 02:56 PM

Both reports would make more sense if they were not written by lawyers.

but at least brady is going to get a fair and impartial judge of this.
Posted By: PrimeTime

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/15/15 03:10 PM

Minus the fact that Goodell is presiding over the appeal. That doesn't seem very fair or impartial.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/15/15 03:11 PM

Why?
Posted By: PrimeTime

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/15/15 03:17 PM

Because Goodell has way too much involvement in the whole thing, which means it would be rather difficult for him to remove himself and be impartial.

He was the one who hired the independent investigator, Wells, and is now being asked to validate the work. So if he comes out and says that Wells' information is no good or inconslusive, he looks like a fool for hiring him, which there's no way he'll do.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/15/15 03:20 PM

That is right there is no way that Goodall will add any time to the suspension.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/15/15 03:25 PM

Just means that after Goodell upholds the suspension, Brady and his legal team will be taking the NFL to court (ala Jonathan Vilma and other players with the Saints bounty cheating). I suspect the Wells report will be shredded in court by Brady's team as it has absolutely no credible evidence that Brady knew or directed any effort to reduce PSI below 12.5.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/15/15 03:32 PM

If it does go to court the NFL can subpoena the phone/e-mail records that they were unable to obtain.
Posted By: PrimeTime

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/15/15 03:52 PM

Just speculation here but I heard that the reason that the phone/email records weren't given to Wells due to his initial confrontation with Brady/Yee in which he was very accusatory, saying things to the nature of "I know you're guilty, I know you did it". Yee reacted to this by telling Wells "well it looks like you already have your mind made up", and instructed Brady to not turn over anything.
Posted By: Sound Tactic

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/15/15 04:54 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
http://wellsreportcontext.com/

Some of this makes sense. Some of it is just dumb (like the "deflator" being related to losing weight).

At the end of the day, I don't know if they manipulated air pressure or not. I've heard good, compelling arguments on both sides. I get that many people, who either already believe the Patriots are a pathologically cheating organization, or have only heard one side of the legitimate arguments, will think it's plain that they cheated here. As someone who wants to believe that they didn't cheat, even I have doubts, so I get why so many are adamant that they did.

But I do think if you had a jury trying this, with a standard of preponderance of evidence, I think you'd wind up with a jury deadlocked at 10 - 2 or 9 - 3 for conviction.


I am not sure I believe that unless the jury has 2 or 3 members who are from Boston. While I admit that I am bias and that I do believe that Belichek and Brady are both cheaters, I find this case compelling. You get the person in question giving compensation to someone, and that person knows he likes flat balls. He also refuses to cooperate and texts really suggest that he asked for them. I think it is a 12-0.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/15/15 05:15 PM

Lets be fare about this he is incent/Guilty because (insert name) is a fan of Patriots/Some other non-cheating team.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/15/15 05:24 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
I get that many people, who either already believe the Patriots are a pathologically cheating organization, or have only heard one side of the legitimate arguments, will think it's plain that they cheated here.


do I think the Patriots have a history of cheating? - yes

do I think they cheated here? - yes

one does not sway the other...each stands on their own
Posted By: PrimeTime

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/15/15 05:45 PM

I blame Russell Wilson for passing on the 1 yard line. If he hands the ball off to Marshawn this issue would be dead. Darnit Russell!!!
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/15/15 09:02 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
do I think the Patriots have a history of cheating? - yes

So do the Saints. So do the 49ers. So do the Broncos. So do the Falcons. So do the Browns. So do the Seahawks. So do the Jets. So do the Dolphins. Shall I go on? Does a team's history taint them forever?
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/15/15 09:13 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
do I think the Patriots have a history of cheating? - yes

So do the Saints.


not sure I would call one time - that was overturned on appeal - a history...but if it makes you feel better, knock yourself out
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/15/15 09:15 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
do I think the Patriots have a history of cheating? - yes

So do the Saints. So do the 49ers. So do the Broncos. So do the Falcons. So do the Browns. So do the Seahawks. So do the Jets. So do the Dolphins. Shall I go on? Does a team's history taint them forever?


Jets and Dolphins? Cheaters usually win a few games. laugh
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/15/15 09:18 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
do I think the Patriots have a history of cheating? - yes

So do the Saints.


not sure I would call one time - that was overturned on appeal - a history...but if it makes you feel better, knock yourself out


Actually even if the did what they were accused (not overturned) of it most likely would have been battery which is illegal but not necessary cheating. (Not a Saints fan)
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/15/15 09:34 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
do I think the Patriots have a history of cheating? - yes

So do the Saints.


not sure I would call one time - that was overturned on appeal - a history...but if it makes you feel better, knock yourself out
Just because the punishment was overturned doesn't mean the guilt was overturned. Just like you would probably say that if Brady's punishment is overturned doesn't mean he's not guilty.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/15/15 09:36 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
do I think the Patriots have a history of cheating? - yes

So do the Saints. So do the 49ers. So do the Broncos. So do the Falcons. So do the Browns. So do the Seahawks. So do the Jets. So do the Dolphins. Shall I go on? Does a team's history taint them forever?


Jets and Dolphins? Cheaters usually win a few games. laugh
Jets - tampering with Revis - we'll see whether that produces any wins. Dolphins - tampering with Don Shula while he was under contract to the Baltimore Colts - seem to remember something about a perfect season shortly after that.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/15/15 09:42 PM

hmm a spoken word (Revis was going anyway, we all know that and the Pats tech. tampered to get him in the first place)or letting air out of a football which is cheating hmmmm

I did not know there was football prior to Shula coming to the dolphins.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/15/15 11:10 PM

So, Ed, you'll have to help me break it down. Which rules violations are cheating and which are just to be blown off? Or is the key just whether the Patriots are involved or not?

And how did the Patriots tamper to get Revis in the first place? That's news to me. He was a free agent after his one year contract in Tampa.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/15/15 11:19 PM

http://yourteamcheats.com
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/16/15 10:16 PM

Bad memory
?

Hours after leaving tampa he signed with the pats not even enough time for him to contact his to Contact his atty.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/16/15 10:20 PM

Losing game because you have bad coaches is cheating?
Posted By: Sound Tactic

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/17/15 12:31 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
do I think the Patriots have a history of cheating? - yes

So do the Saints. So do the 49ers. So do the Broncos. So do the Falcons. So do the Browns. So do the Seahawks. So do the Jets. So do the Dolphins. Shall I go on? Does a team's history taint them forever?


How does this become justification for the action? Because other people are cheating I can too?
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/18/15 12:34 AM

Originally Posted By Sound Tactic
Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
do I think the Patriots have a history of cheating? - yes

So do the Saints. So do the 49ers. So do the Broncos. So do the Falcons. So do the Browns. So do the Seahawks. So do the Jets. So do the Dolphins. Shall I go on? Does a team's history taint them forever?


How does this become justification for the action? Because other people are cheating I can too?
It's not justification for any action. It's pushing back on the notion that some people have that the Patriots have a "culture of cheating" and that no other team has such a culture, and because of this culture any suspicion automatically escalates to full-fledged "cheating".
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/18/15 12:38 AM

Originally Posted By edAudit
Bad memory
?

Hours after leaving tampa he signed with the pats not even enough time for him to contact his to Contact his atty.
I believe they worked out most of the details during the 3-day "legal tampering" period immediately preceding free agency that the league out in place a couple of years ago. If that's cheating, then so is what the Dolphins just did with Suh. The difference with what the Jets did was that Revis still had a year remaining on his contract with the Patriots and was not a free agent at the time Woody's tampering remarks were made.

Also, nice how you just glossed over the main question of my post you quoted - how is one to know which rules violations are "cheating" and which are not?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/18/15 09:09 AM

Cheating is purpusly taking an unfair advantage. Offsides, illegal formation unnessary rougness, (see Nfl on field penalties)is not cheating. See Patriots for cultural cheating.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/18/15 11:46 AM

Originally Posted By edAudit
Cheating is purpusly taking an unfair advantage. Offsides, illegal formation unnessary rougness, (see Nfl on field penalties)is not cheating. See Patriots for cultural cheating.
But you said the Jets tampering with Revis wasn't really cheating. How is that not purposely taking an unfair advantage. If you're going to call cheating, at least be consistent, instead of consistently biased. In your world the Patriots are the only cheaters and regardless of what anyone provides to document otherwise, we are to believe their level of cheating far surpasses anyone else's.

If you'd be interested in more unbiased discussion, here's another good analysis of what's going on here with this particular incident of "Patriot cheating": http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...ustic/#comments
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/18/15 11:57 AM

Making an off the cuff quote to a reporter that Revis claims he did not hear is not cheating (possibly not even tampering but goodall had to give back to Kraft). Same claim had been mad by the Jets about the Kraft quote also not cheating. The rule does not make sense as well when the NFL insists that team members/owners talk to reporters but can not answer the direct questions asked without "tampering". Now if he discussed contract terms with a player while under contract that should be tampering.

"otherwise, we are to believe their level of cheating far surpasses anyone else's."


Yes now you get it
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/18/15 12:01 PM

But prosecutors routinely become convinced that the persons they’re investigating have committed crimes. A fair system of justice requires prosecutors to test their evidence through an adversarial process, with the defendant challenging the proof and presenting evidence of its own — and with a third party hearing the evidence and making a decision.


That is exactly what would have happened had Brady cooperated. As for third party Vincent and Kraft buddy Goodall.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/18/15 01:10 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy


Still trying to determine who wrote the article.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/18/15 01:20 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
Now if he discussed contract terms with a player while under contract that should be tampering.

"otherwise, we are to believe their level of cheating far surpasses anyone else's."


Yes now you get it
He said "If we had known we could have got him for the $14 million that the Patriots are paying him, we absolutely would have gone after him". How is that not discussing contract terms with a player while under contact with another team? Are you saying that only if the contact is directly with the player is it tampering? If that's your argument, then every team could just tamper by contacting players agents. Even if Revis didn't hear the remark directly, I'm quite sure it was relayed to him and I'm pretty sure his agent would have heard it as well. You just don't want to acknowledge that any other team but the Patriots cheats.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/18/15 01:27 PM

everyone cheats so the Pat can cheat as well is your defense?

The Regulators decided that JPM, HSBC, Citi, Aions... had BSA issues so that allows every bank to have them?

not buying the logic.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/18/15 01:35 PM

Not my logic at all. See post #2014576 above. But your logic seems to be that because the Patriots have cheated before, how could this not be cheating.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/18/15 01:38 PM

I would think that deflating a football cheating as much as having movable goal posts that are closer for the home team than the visiting
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/18/15 01:40 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
I would think that deflating a football cheating as much as having movable goal posts that are closer for the home team than the visiting
So glad you're not running the league, then.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/18/15 01:42 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Not my logic at all. See post #2014576 above. But your logic seems to be that because the Patriots have cheated before, how could this not be cheating.


They have cheated in the past and have cheated again I do not get the point. The Broncos messing with Salary Cap money is also in a way cheating but they did not let the air out of their footballs>
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/18/15 01:46 PM

Listen, you are so rabidly anti-Patriots and I am so rabidly pro-Patriots that we are never going to come to a point of agreement. Why don't we just agree to disagree and leave it at that?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/18/15 01:51 PM

sound like a Plan but I have not been anti Pat at all. Just Brady and Belechik. They have a lot of talent on the team and should have won without any (for your benefit) extreme bending of rules and if the suspension hold would still have a good chance of starting 4 and 0.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/18/15 02:47 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
I am so rabidly pro-Patriots


so, let's imagine that 3 months from now the NFL has reviewed the case, as collective bargaining requires, and the conclusion is Brady was involved. Would you still disagree?

Further, to try and lower the suspension from 4 games to 2, Brady admits he was involved. Would you then say he was just saying this to decrease the suspension?

Just curious if there is any scenario where you would admit that actual cheating occurred.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/18/15 03:32 PM

I've already admitted that cheating may have taken place. I have also had no qualms admitting that cheating did take place in the filming of defensive signals in 2007, and for that the Patriots and Belichick were punished. What I won't admit is that the filming incident means there is a "culture of cheating" associated with the Patriots. I also don't think the NFL is independent enough to review the process. I understand that's what's called for in the collective bargaining, but it doesn't change the fact that the NFL has a dog in the hunt. They have a lot of egg on their face if the facts don't support that Brady was involved. So there is already no question in my mind that Goodell will uphold Troy Vincent's punishment decree. Still doesn't prove Brady was involved. If Brady admits he was involved, then I'll take him at his word, just like I am now, and say he absolutely broke the rules. But absent an admission from him or stronger proof that just being mentioned in a couple of texts for giving away some shoes and autographs combined with having said some time ago that he preferred his footballs on the softer side (and 12.5 is softer than 13.5) and refusing to give over his personal cell phone in today's media sensationalist world over celebrities as the circumstantial evidence on which to conclude he must have cheated, then no.

Let's then imagine that 3 months from now, Goodell upheld the suspension, Brady sued the NFL and the judge vacated the suspension and said there was not sufficient proof that Brady knew or was involved. Would you then say cheating did not happen?
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/18/15 03:39 PM

no long winded explanation needed here - yep, i'd say it didn't happen
Posted By: Sound Tactic

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/18/15 03:53 PM

I agree that the NFL is not independent enough to review what happened. Here is my problem with the whole situation. Belichek has cheated and Brady has cheated (maybe two different situations but I still contend B knew about the balls.

So what should the NFL do? IMO what Brady did tarnished the game, his own legacy, and put into question all past Super Bowls won by him. It also makes me question his ability, statistics, and career. So what should the NFL do about someone who knowingly compensates and puts undue influence on someone to help him cheat. I don't know. The NFL has an interest in keeping Brady in the league. He is a fan favorite, the Patriots are a winning team, and banning him or B would tarnish the last 15 years of the NFL. So they won't do anything with any teeth. The problem is that Brady did not commit any crime. So who would look at this type of thing? I personally do not know. But the punishment fitting what Brady did was a lifetime ban from the NFL.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/18/15 03:55 PM

I for one do not want to see this in court. Why waste tax payer money on this.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/19/15 01:41 PM

Originally Posted By Sound Tactic
I agree that the NFL is not independent enough to review what happened. Here is my problem with the whole situation. Belichek has cheated and Brady has cheated (maybe two different situations but I still contend B knew about the balls.

So what should the NFL do? IMO what Brady did tarnished the game, his own legacy, and put into question all past Super Bowls won by him. It also makes me question his ability, statistics, and career. So what should the NFL do about someone who knowingly compensates and puts undue influence on someone to help him cheat. I don't know. The NFL has an interest in keeping Brady in the league. He is a fan favorite, the Patriots are a winning team, and banning him or B would tarnish the last 15 years of the NFL. So they won't do anything with any teeth. The problem is that Brady did not commit any crime. So who would look at this type of thing? I personally do not know. But the punishment fitting what Brady did was a lifetime ban from the NFL.


Given your comments above I assume we can insert Jerry Rice's name and you would feel the same? He admitted to using stickem on his gloves, knowing it was an illegal substance.

Regardless of the outcome, people have chosen a side one way or the other and I don't think too many people will change their mind if new information comes out.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/19/15 02:08 PM

was the admission made during or following his playing career?
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/19/15 02:10 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
was the admission made during or following his playing career?
Why does it matter? Doesn't it still tarnish his legacy, and bring into question all his stats and Super Bowl wins?
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/19/15 02:11 PM

Former Patriots tackle Matt Light is doing something very creative with the whole deflategate circus for the good of his charitable foundation - www.inflationnationraffle.com
Posted By: TMatt87

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/19/15 02:20 PM

"If ya ain't cheatin', ya ain't trying"

Everyone tries to get an advantage vs. their opponent, whether it's deflating balls, pumping in crowd noise, or steroids. As long as you have competition, you're going to have cheating. The Patriots were just the ones that were caught.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/19/15 02:31 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Former Patriots tackle Matt Light is doing something very creative with the whole deflategate circus for the good of his charitable foundation - www.inflationnationraffle.com


appears to be a worthy cause and a novel approach. see I do not hate on the patriots
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/19/15 02:33 PM

Originally Posted By TMatt87
"If ya ain't cheatin', ya ain't trying"

Everyone tries to get an advantage vs. their opponent, whether it's deflating balls, pumping in crowd noise, or steroids. As long as you have competition, you're going to have cheating. The Patriots were just the ones that were caught.


I still do not believe that everyone in the NFL has no integrity, See beach post above.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/19/15 02:36 PM

I can prove it, look up NFL integrity and the first post is

http://www.sportsintegrity.com/football-nfl/

A site trying to sell you junk cry
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/19/15 03:05 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
was the admission made during or following his playing career?
Why does it matter? Doesn't it still tarnish his legacy, and bring into question all his stats and Super Bowl wins?


certainly it matters as it relates to the current game. While it may tarnish his legacy, it has no impact on the next game the 49ers play. If Brady was retired and came out in 2 years and said "hey, I told the equipment guy to deflate the balls in 2014" that has a huge difference over "the nfl has found that brady was involved in the deflation of balls last season in a playoff win."

certainly you are able to discern the difference, no?
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/19/15 03:28 PM

not sure if Art Donovan is still alive, he is an old player from the 50s...used to go on the old talk shows at night and discuss how the NFL was full of cheaters when he played...his stories were hilarious...like how he used to put thumbtacks on his shoulder pads facing out so anyone trying to block him would get cut up...and punching players while in the pile...biting...gouging eyes...you name it, I think they did it at some point...
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/19/15 03:28 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
was the admission made during or following his playing career?
Why does it matter? Doesn't it still tarnish his legacy, and bring into question all his stats and Super Bowl wins?


certainly it matters as it relates to the current game. While it may tarnish his legacy, it has no impact on the next game the 49ers play. If Brady was retired and came out in 2 years and said "hey, I told the equipment guy to deflate the balls in 2014" that has a huge difference over "the nfl has found that brady was involved in the deflation of balls last season in a playoff win."

certainly you are able to discern the difference, no?
SoundTactic made the statement that Brady's cheating actions tarnish his reputation, his statistics, all his Super Bowl wins. Sox said you could say the same thing about Jerry Rice's cheating actions - that if what is said about Brady is true, then it should be true about Jerry Rice too. I don't see where the timing of any determination of guilt has any impact on whether there is tarnish to reputation, statistics and Super Bowl wins.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/19/15 04:11 PM

1. I cheated, but I no longer play

2. I cheated, and still play

which has the greater opportunity to impact the game moving forward? the cheater who no longer plays, or the cheater who still plays?

both their reputations are tarnished...but only one can impact the game
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/19/15 04:15 PM

Rice tarnished his reputation as all balls caught by him is suspect.

The pats rep is tarnished as all ball thrown, caught, rushed is now suspect as the ball itself was altered Underinflated balls are easier to catch pass and hold by the entire team even if the other teammates did not know about it,
Posted By: TMatt87

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/19/15 04:18 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
Originally Posted By TMatt87
"If ya ain't cheatin', ya ain't trying"

Everyone tries to get an advantage vs. their opponent, whether it's deflating balls, pumping in crowd noise, or steroids. As long as you have competition, you're going to have cheating. The Patriots were just the ones that were caught.


I still do not believe that everyone in the NFL has no integrity, See beach post above.


That's like saying there are politicians with integrity. Sure, there might be some, but they are becoming harder to find.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/19/15 04:20 PM

Missing prior to Wells report

Ball will be take out of the box and inflated/deflated to 13.5 psi by officials and kept under the control of officials the entire game. Same ball for both sided until worn out.

Done.
Posted By: Sound Tactic

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/19/15 05:24 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
was the admission made during or following his playing career?
Why does it matter? Doesn't it still tarnish his legacy, and bring into question all his stats and Super Bowl wins?


certainly it matters as it relates to the current game. While it may tarnish his legacy, it has no impact on the next game the 49ers play. If Brady was retired and came out in 2 years and said "hey, I told the equipment guy to deflate the balls in 2014" that has a huge difference over "the nfl has found that brady was involved in the deflation of balls last season in a playoff win."

certainly you are able to discern the difference, no?
SoundTactic made the statement that Brady's cheating actions tarnish his reputation, his statistics, all his Super Bowl wins. Sox said you could say the same thing about Jerry Rice's cheating actions - that if what is said about Brady is true, then it should be true about Jerry Rice too. I don't see where the timing of any determination of guilt has any impact on whether there is tarnish to reputation, statistics and Super Bowl wins.


Deflecting blame is not an excuse. I am not discussing Jerry Rice. Nor is anyone but you.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/19/15 06:00 PM

http://nypost.com/2015/05/19/kraft-and-goodell-hug-at-party-as-deflategate-thaw-begins/

Pssssssssssh. That’s the sound of the hot air being let out of the Patriots’ post-Deflategate posturing.

Patriots owner Robert Kraft announced Tuesday the team will not appeal the punishment handed down by NFL commissioner Roger Goodell last week for using under-inflated footballs during the AFC Championship game in January.

EDIT

Quarterback Tom Brady remains free to pursue an appeal of his personal suspension for the first four games of the season, filed with the backing of the players’ union.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/19/15 11:31 PM

That's the sound of a businessman realizing where the source of his billions of dollars come from.
Posted By: Sound Tactic

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/20/15 12:06 PM

..... or knowledge of the greater guilt.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/20/15 01:24 PM

likely both
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/20/15 01:27 PM

http://www.forbes.com/teams/new-england-patriots/

2.600 M

wondering why they are number 2 behind the cowboys.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/20/15 01:30 PM

cowboys are "America's team", which goes back to the Tom Landry/Roger Staubach days, when there was integrity in football...they ignore the fact that Jerry Jones is a d-bag and hope the cowboys will one day return to greatness...

i'm more curious how a team like the Redskins, those racist native American haters, can be ranked 3rd...
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/20/15 01:36 PM

Landry Played for the Giants (all players were/are cheaters)

Stabbach owns a NASCAR team so he must be a cheater (and above).
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/20/15 02:40 PM

All have sinned and fall short of the glory!
Posted By: MB Guy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/20/15 03:04 PM

werd.
Posted By: MyBrainHurts

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/20/15 03:08 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
cowboys are "America's team", which goes back to the Tom Landry/Roger Staubach days, when there was integrity in football....


You didn't see North Dallas Forty?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/20/15 03:16 PM

That would have been don Meredith and not Staubach
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/20/15 03:42 PM

It is a movie!!!!
Posted By: MyBrainHurts

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/20/15 03:43 PM

Originally Posted By Pale Rider
It is a movie!!!!



So says the guy who thinks the people in Game of Thrones aren't real.
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/20/15 03:44 PM

Originally Posted By MyBrainHurts
Originally Posted By Pale Rider
It is a movie!!!!



So says the guy who thinks the people in Game of Thrones aren't real.


Ha!!!

You got me! Now Donald Draper is a real guy!!!
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/20/15 03:51 PM

well, he was until his series was cancelled
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/20/15 03:57 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
well, he was until his series was cancelled


until Gent got traded to the Giants
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/21/15 07:05 PM

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/pa...ODYI/story.html

weather or not you agree or disagree Jim Kelly is looking good for someone who was so sick last year.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/21/15 07:18 PM

whether/weather

for all intensive purposes/for all intents and purposes

no/know

to/too/two

red/read
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/22/15 07:42 PM

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/beli...k5RGG?ocid=iehp
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/22/15 08:02 PM

for those who can't click the link above...

Quote:
A Boston Herald sportswriter recently stated he heard the only reason Robert Kraft accepted the punishment levied against the New England Patriots by the NFL in the wake of the Deflategate scandal stems from the notion that Bill Belichick suspected Tom Brady wasn’t being totally honest with him.

During an episode of “Sports Tonight,” CBS Boston’s Michael Felger floated the theory that neither Belichick nor Kraft never were certain Brady was being truthful with them about his alleged role in what spawned Deflategate. It was decided by Kraft after discussing it with Belichick that he would wave the proverbial white flag — albeit with a stated reluctance — and accept the punishment administered by the NFL on the Patriots.

The Herald’s Ron Borges, also appearing on the show, appeared to corroborate Felger’s theory by relaying that he heard Belichick never believed Brady from the get-go.

“Belichick never believed his story, from what I was told,” said Borges, via a CSNNE report. “Because they all know. Why do you think all those retired quarterbacks, the Troy Aikmans of the world — Troy Aikman is about as nice a guy as I’ve ever met in football — nobody’s backed [Brady]. Nobody, not a single guy. Why do you think that is? Because they hate Brady? No. Because they’re not stupid. They know nothing’s done with those balls that the quarterback doesn’t want done.”

Borges certainly is weaving a tangled web with this story, one that certainly could threaten to cripple the Patriots organization. Any whiff of distrust between Belichick and Brady could hamstring the near future of the Patriots once Brady’s fate is determined pending his appeal of his four-game suspension.

Speaking of Brady’s suspension, some have speculated that Kraft accepted the league’s $1 million fine as well as the loss of draft picks in 2016 and 2017. If Borges story is accurate — and Felger’s theory proves true — it was much more a demonstration of little faith in their Super Bowl-winning quarterback than it was an attempt to help him.

In the end, regardless of whether Brady’s suspension is upheld, reduced or wiped out entirely, no one likely will ever know the truth. And that’s what makes for a fantastic conspiracy theory.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/22/15 08:03 PM

Felger and Borges are as anti Patriot as it gets here in New England for what its worth.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/22/15 08:08 PM

Originally Posted By Sox in '13
Felger and Borges are as anti Patriot as it gets here in New England for what its worth.


You are saying that beleckik and kraft knew?
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/22/15 08:17 PM

I am saying Felger and Borges are as anti Patriot as it gets here in New England.

It is interesting that Kraft and Belechik were completely exonerated in the Wells report. Maybe they didn't know when it was happening and as this story blew up they found out more details.

I think the report has many holes in it and we probably will never know the truth one way or the other unless Brady gives up his phone.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/22/15 08:46 PM

if Brady gives up his phone now, what are the chances that the incrimination (if there are any) messages are still one it?
Posted By: #ONENANA

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/22/15 10:33 PM

Thank you Happy for that. I can't click on any of the links.
Posted By: Sound Tactic

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/24/15 12:54 AM

[quoteI think the report has many holes in it and we probably will never know the truth one way or the other unless Brady gives up his phone.[/quote]

the truth is pretty obvious unless you are an obsessed patriots fan
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/26/15 07:28 PM

If you say so.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/26/15 07:32 PM

for those who do not know I looked it up smirk

The TB12 Sports Therapy Center was created to bring Tom Brady’s method of training to athletes who aspire to be the best they can be, at every age. The TB12 Method is a proven approach to help people reach and maintain their peak levels of performance by adjusting vital pieces of sports equipment to your liking even if it is against the rules.

http://www.patriot-place.com/TB12
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/26/15 07:48 PM

well, one can never be too young to learn to properly hide illegal equipment adjustments...
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/26/15 07:57 PM

Integrity is no longer the norm. Now cheaters are considered normal, and athletes not cheating are considered weird.

I blame Bill.
Posted By: Wolfy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/26/15 08:21 PM

Nephew received a new football for his Birthday this weekend but it was slightly under inflated. Granddad said that is OK kiddo lets go play some Bradyball before your father pumps it up to play football.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/26/15 09:01 PM

Interesting information for what it is worth:

http://yourteamcheats.com/cheaters/
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/26/15 09:18 PM

Even more interesting (if you are a Steeler fan <even the name suggests illegal activity so it must be true>)

http://steelcurtainrising.com/2015/05/yo...-steroids.html/
Posted By: Wolfy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/26/15 09:21 PM

Originally Posted By TB 12
Interesting information for what it is worth:

http://yourteamcheats.com/cheaters/


Based on what data? Then it might be interesting.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/26/15 09:49 PM

based on information that the site says was overturned...yet they still count...at least for 2 of the teams I looked at
Posted By: MB Guy

More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 05/27/15 01:40 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/28/sports...-them.html?_r=0

FIFA Officials Are Arrested on Corruption Charges; Sepp Blatter Isn’t Among Them


By MATT APUZZO, MICHAEL S. SCHMIDT, WILLIAM K. RASHBAUM and SAM BORDENMAY 27, 2015

ZURICH — Swiss authorities conducted an extraordinary early-morning operation here Wednesday to arrest several top soccer officials and extradite them to the United States on federal corruption charges.

As leaders of FIFA, soccer’s global governing body, gathered for their annual meeting, more than a dozen plainclothes Swiss law enforcement officials arrived unannounced at the Baur au Lac hotel, an elegant five-star property with views of the Alps and Lake Zurich. They went to the front desk to get room numbers and then proceeded upstairs.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 05/27/15 01:58 PM

if this is about Soccer why is it in the sports section?
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 05/27/15 01:59 PM

certainly about time
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 06/15/15 01:57 PM

http://www.inquisitr.com/2169825/new-england-patriots-rumors-wells-report/

Interesting findings. Not that it will matter-anyone that has an opinion as to Brady's involvement probably won't change it.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 06/15/15 02:08 PM

The article pretty much sums up what was agreed here that the NFL is not competent but it proves or disproves nothing. I also do not think that it will change the suspension as someone's mind is made up.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 06/15/15 02:13 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
The article pretty much sums up what was agreed here that the NFL is not competent but it proves or disproves nothing. I also do not think that it will change the suspension as someone's mind is made up.

Agree that Goodell's mind is made up. But it might have an influence on the judge that's going to hear the court case and may overturn the suspension much like the court did in the Saints bounty case, based at least in part on a report from this same outfit.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 06/15/15 02:18 PM

I can not see a reason for the overrule as the judge/jury/executioner has been clearly stated in the CBA and signed by the Players Association.

FWIW: I do not see any need for taxpayer money (court $$)to be spent on this mess.

The Players Association should have bargained a better deal if they did not trust the NFL to play fair.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 06/15/15 02:22 PM

I agree the players have no right to whine since they agreed to let the Commissioner be judge and jury-that is their problem.

I do think there is enough in this report for Gooddell to consider reducing the suspension. The Wells report is shaky at best. The NFL completely bungled this issue.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 06/15/15 02:24 PM

The minute that that happens (some chance) the "haters" and a few actual people who like watching a fair game will call it a cover-up and a gift to his good buddy Kraft.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 06/15/15 03:38 PM

There is no way the 4 game suspension sticks.
Posted By: Sound Tactic

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 06/16/15 03:00 PM

Originally Posted By TB 12
I agree the players have no right to whine since they agreed to let the Commissioner be judge and jury-that is their problem.

I do think there is enough in this report for Gooddell to consider reducing the suspension. The Wells report is shaky at best. The NFL completely bungled this issue.



I would never give Brady the chance to whine because..... he did not cooperate with the investigation. The Wells report is spot on. Had Brady been cooperative and they not found anything with Brady but instead the ball boys, I think he would have a leg to stand on. But he cheated, he knew he cheated, and he tried to cover it up by not cooperating. What more is there to discuss?
Posted By: Sound Tactic

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 06/16/15 03:01 PM

Originally Posted By TB 12
There is no way the 4 game suspension sticks.


It should be a lifetime ban.
Posted By: DoS

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 06/16/15 03:26 PM

not NFL but still cheaters (allegedly)

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/17/sports/baseball/st-louis-cardinals-hack-astros-fbi.html?_r=0
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 06/16/15 03:30 PM

Punish for not cooperating-ok. No argument there. Your comment regarding a lifetime ban is simply ridiculous.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 06/16/15 03:34 PM

Originally Posted By DoS


Minor issue just suspend the ball boy.
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 06/16/15 03:53 PM

Makes you consider living off the grid.
Posted By: MyBrainHurts

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 06/16/15 05:01 PM

Originally Posted By DoS


Haters be hatin'. Just some Houston paranoia.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 06/16/15 05:10 PM

somehow it will go back to McGuire and steroids.
Posted By: DoS

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 06/16/15 05:47 PM

I'm pretty sure the only reason St. Louis won last night is because they hacked Trevor May's pitch signals
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 06/24/15 11:40 AM

It must be difficult to talk (testify) for 10 hours on a subject that you have no knowledge of.

Just saying
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 06/24/15 12:52 PM

It must be difficult knowing you paid $5 million for a "report" that isn't worth the paper it's written on.

Just saying.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 06/24/15 01:01 PM

Originally Posted By TB 12
It must be difficult knowing you paid $5 million for a "report" that isn't worth the paper it's written on.

Just saying.


you (as most of us) work for a bank and most likely hired an outside consultant to write a report. We all know what that feels like.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 06/24/15 01:01 PM

OK.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 06/24/15 01:02 PM

laugh
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 06/24/15 01:06 PM

My point was (especially if he had no knowledge and this was not a Brady slam) what could possibly be covered in 10 hours of testimony about a alleged task that took less than 3 minutes.

NFL, (like always) is dropping the ball on this one.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 06/24/15 02:57 PM

The same could be said for the 103 days it took for the report. Having read through it I found it comical. Alleged this, not sure which gauge was used for which test and when... blah blah.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 06/24/15 04:25 PM

His testimony was to refute the allegations made in the Wells Report. The fact that he acceded to doing this under oath, facing criminal penalties for perjury if he is caught in any lies, sends a pretty strong message as well. Quit grasping at straws, Ed. Not to mention that although the entire hearing took 10 hours, none of us knows how much of that time was him testifying.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 06/24/15 04:31 PM

See Barry Bonds, Rodger Clemmons, Mark McGuire, Lance... about testifying under oath

PS the comment was not about Brady persay it was about the lameness of the NFL. The papers I read said he testified for 10 plus hours.
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 06/24/15 04:41 PM

Just a side thought, it is interesting that all the lists of the wealthiest sports figures I have seen, none include football players.

You have you long-necked geese, your humpty-back camels, and your chimpanzees, your race car drivers, your geezer golfers, your boxers and basketball stars, but no football players....
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 06/24/15 04:43 PM

I would worry more about soccer executives as they have lots of money yet no one watches the games (almost said sport).
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 06/24/15 06:30 PM

http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newe...-during-season/

one would have though that the kicking team would want a fully inflated ball.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 06/24/15 06:34 PM

This just in to fakenewsnetwork.com NFL is not concerned with the cheating/non-cheating aspect of deflated ball but the fact that the logo could not be fully seen on said deflated balls. laugh
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 06/24/15 07:46 PM

^^^^^ This is what awaits all you young folks that have a body full of tatoos, just sayin'.....
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 06/24/15 08:53 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newe...-during-season/

one would have though that the kicking team would want a fully inflated ball.



could have been selective deflation-if they were around mid field perhaps a bit more was taken out.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/28/15 04:39 PM

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/repo...held/ar-AAdBouH

Stephen A. Smith said on ESPN’s “First Take” Tuesday morning that a source told him Roger Goodell will not reduce or overturn Brady’s suspension. Perhaps more shocking, Smith cited a separate source who told him Brady actually destroyed his own personal cell phone rather than just refusing to turn it over.

Cool more unsubstantiated rumor.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/28/15 05:04 PM

Interesting.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/28/15 05:14 PM

if any of it is true
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/28/15 06:57 PM

what a goober, everyone knows he just needs to break the sim card...
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/28/15 07:13 PM

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/0...4A1J/story.html

it is official (what ever that means)
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/28/15 07:15 PM

And I sure hope federal tax dollars are not used to determine more.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/28/15 07:53 PM

it means nothing to the true believers
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/28/15 09:07 PM

now, I know there are some that will likely point to the coincidental nature of Brady's cell phone being destroyed the day he was scheduled to meet with the investigators, but unless you are Fox Mulder and looking for conspiracy theories, clearly this was not linked in any way. After all, everyone I know destroys their cell phone and old sim-card when they get a new one...umm, wait...I don't know anyone that has intentionally destroyed their cell phone and sim-card.

this is a copy of the article linked above

Originally Posted By boston globe article
NFL commissioner Roger Goodell upheld Patriots quarterback Tom Brady’s four-game Deflategate suspension, the league announced Tuesday.

The NFL indicated in its release on the decision that a key factor was Brady ordering that his cellphone be destroyed.

From the NFL’s release:

“On or shortly before March 6, the day that Tom Brady met with independent investigator Ted Wells and his colleagues, Brady directed that the cellphone he had used for the prior four months be destroyed. He did so even though he was aware that the investigators had requested access to text messages and other electronic information that had been stored on that phone.

“During the four months that the cellphone was in use, Brady had exchanged nearly 10,000 text messages, none of which can now be retrieved from that device. The destruction of the cellphone was not disclosed until June 18, almost four months after the investigators had first sought electronic information from Brady.

“Based on the Wells Report and the evidence presented at the hearing, Commissioner Goodell concluded in his decision that Brady was aware of, and took steps to support, the actions of other team employees to deflate game footballs below the levels called for by the NFL’s Official Playing Rules. The commissioner found that Brady’s deliberate destruction of potentially relevant evidence went beyond a mere failure to cooperate in the investigation and supported a finding that he had sought to hide evidence of his own participation in the underlying scheme to alter the footballs.”

“The Commissioner’s decision is deeply disappointing, but not surprising because the appeal process was thoroughly lacking in procedural fairness. Most importantly, neither Tom nor the Patriots did anything wrong. And the NFL has no evidence that anything inappropriate occurred,” said Brady’s agent, Don Yee, in a statement released Tuesday afternoon. “The appeal process was a sham, resulting in the Commissioner rubber-stamping his own decision.”

The NFL explained its decision in a 20-page report that accompanied its announcement. According to the report, Brady testified at his suspension appeal hearing on June 23 that it is standard practice for him, or his assistant, to destroy his old cellphones and SIM cards upon acquiring a new one.

He began using a new phone “on or about March 6,” which is also the day he met with Ted Wells and investigators to be interviewed about Deflategate.

Goodell served as the arbitrator for the appeal hearing, which was held at NFL headquarters in New York on June 23. The closed-door hearing lasted 11 hours, and ESPN reported that nearly 40 people were in the room.

Among the witnesses was Wells, who led the Deflategate investigation that resulted in Brady’s four-game suspension. Wells confirmed he testified but didn’t offer any details.

Though Patriots owner Robert Kraft was not at the hearing, he wrote a letter on Brady’s behalf.

Brady’s legal team argued that not only did Wells find no definitive proof of a scheme to deflate game balls in the AFC Championship game against the Colts or of Brady having any knowledge of such a plan, it also claimed Brady’s punishment was far too harsh based on precedent — a four-game suspension would cost Brady $1.88 million.

Brady was initially notified of his suspension by NFL vice president of football operations Troy Vincent on May 11. The Patriots were also penalized, losing a first-round draft pick in 2016, a fourth-round pick in 2017, and fined a league-record $1 million.

On May 14, the NFL Players Association filed an appeal on Brady’s behalf.

In its letter to Vincent, which was signed by NFLPA general counsel Tom DePaso, the union outlined three major points as to why Brady’s punishment should be vacated or reduced.

The first: Under the collective bargaining agreement, Vincent does not have the authority to determine and mete out discipline, only Goodell does.

“As both Mr. Brady’s discipline letter and the NFL’s public statements make clear, you were tasked by Commissioner Goodell to determine whether Mr. Brady should be subject to discipline for conduct detrimental in connection with the events described in the Wells Report, and if so, to decide and impose the discipline,” the letter said. “And you have, in fact, imposed Mr. Brady’s discipline pursuant to the Commissioner’s purported delegation of his authority.

“Any such delegation is a plain violation of the CBA. The CBA grants the Commissioner — and only the Commissioner — the authority to impose conduct detrimental discipline on players.”

Another of the union’s points of contention was that Brady’s four-game suspension was far too harsh given precedent and punishment given to other players for similar infractions; and it also attacked the credibility of the Wells Report.

Just hours after the appeal was filed, news emerged that Goodell intended to serve as the appeals officer. The NFLPA then demanded that Goodell recuse himself and appoint a neutral arbitrator, arguing in part that if the league truly believed the Wells Report was a fair and independent investigation, it should have no problem having an independent individual oversee the appeal.

Additionally, the NFLPA made clear its intention of calling Goodell and Vincent as witnesses at the hearing, and having the commissioner as de facto judge and witness would complicate that.

On May 22, NFLPA executive director DeMaurice Smith, appearing on ESPN, said the union had not gotten a response from Goodell on whether he would recuse himself and if there wasn’t a response within a week, the union would “turn up the volume” on its request.

A report came a short time after Smith’s interview aired that Goodell had decided to remain as arbitrator, but a league spokesmen said Goodell had not made his decision. Rather, the NFL’s lawyers had submitted their arguments to Goodell as to why he should not hand off the hearing to a different arbitrator.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/28/15 09:15 PM

10,000 text messages is a lot of text messages for four months. Could it be that they were just about a wedding or something else?
Posted By: noelekal

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/28/15 09:27 PM

He had a good example set before him.

More Cheaters (really not even the NFL this time)
https://www.atr.org/irs-failed-search-five-six-locations-lois-lerner-emails

And to think I was always taught that cheaters never prosper. Bad information I was given there.
Posted By: DoS

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/28/15 09:54 PM

not that I care one way or the other but if I was Brady and married to Gisele Bundchen there is no way on earth I would turn over my cell phone to the NFL ... I would probably have the cell destroyed also after transferring all the pictures and such to the new one. smirk
Posted By: Sound Tactic

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 01:12 AM

I love how it is now a fact that Brady tried to destroy evidence. Not withhold evidence, but destroy it. This must be the act of an innocent party. I once heard a law enforcement psychologist say that the innocent become angry when wrongfully accused. The innocent do not try to destroy the evidence.

Anyone who would be proud of this guy or his championships (especially this one) must be a supporter of cheating. Any lesser player (IE not the face of a franchise) would be banned from the league for tarnishing the integrity of the game.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 12:22 PM

Shemp-before you put the blindfold on Brady and light his last cigarette, lets back up a bit...

Brady's response this morning states otherwise...

snip from http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/07/tom-brady-rips-the-nfls-deflategate-decision-on-his-facebook-page


"I also disagree with yesterdays narrative surrounding my cellphone. I replaced my broken Samsung phone with a new iPhone 6 AFTER my attorneys made it clear to the NFL that my actual phone device would not be subjected to investigation under ANY circumstances. As a member of a union, I was under no obligation to set a new precedent going forward, nor was I made aware at any time during Mr. Wells investigation, that failing to subject my cell phone to investigation would result in ANY discipline.

Most importantly, I have never written, texted, emailed to anybody at anytime, anything related to football air pressure before this issue was raised at the AFC Championship game in January. To suggest that I destroyed a phone to avoid giving the NFL information it requested is completely wrong."
Posted By: DD Regs

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 12:27 PM

He made a lengthy and I am sure, from the heart, not Lawyer written, response to the accusations today on his facebook page.

Looks like this one could be headed to court.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 12:39 PM

I still do not see a need for court and a waste of taxpayer dollars. The contract that the players signed stated that Goodall has the authority to issue the suspension... period. It was a stupid move by the union (but they were compensated appropriately) but they should live up to it.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 12:43 PM

I agree the union shouldn't whine about something they agreed to in the CBA.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 12:46 PM

"I replaced my broken Samsung phone with a new iPhone 6 AFTER my attorneys made it clear to the NFL that my actual phone device would not be subjected to investigation under ANY circumstances."

Why would someone wait to replace a broken phone?

If he was strapped for cash I am sure if he asked nice his wife would have bought him one,

"Mr. Wells investigation, that failing to subject my cell phone to investigation would result in ANY discipline."

Why would one assume that failing to provide requested info would not lead to some type of discipline?


"To try and reconcile the record and fully cooperate with the investigation after I was disciplined in May, we turned over detailed pages of cell phone records and all of the emails that Mr. Wells requested. We even contacted the phone company to see if there was any possible way we could retrieve any/all of the actual text messages from my old phone. In short, we exhausted every possibility to give the NFL everything we could and offered to go thru the identity for every text and phone call during the relevant time."

That is the third time this week I have read a similar tale (three different parties) and I do not believe any of them.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 12:47 PM

Originally Posted By TB 12
To suggest that I destroyed a phone to avoid giving the NFL information it requested is completely wrong."


yes, just unfortunate timing that it occurred the same day access to his old phone was requested...wink wink nudge nudge...

i'm pretty sure Aaron Hernandez is also innocent, because he said he didn't do it either.

if I were in this position and knew for a fact that nothing in my phone would show any record of texts, I would not have an issue in providing this for review. Seems like the right thing to do by someone who is in that position and can easily clear up this "misconception" impacting not only me, but my employer, and the game I claim to love, and put this "allegation" to rest.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 12:47 PM

Originally Posted By TB 12
I agree the union shouldn't whine about something they agreed to in the CBA.


See we can agree on something's.

This nonsense of all pro sports going to waste taxpayer money on court cases is out of hand.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 12:48 PM

Originally Posted By Sound Tactic
I love how it is now a fact that Brady tried to destroy evidence. Not withhold evidence, but destroy it. This must be the act of an innocent party. I once heard a law enforcement psychologist say that the innocent become angry when wrongfully accused. The innocent do not try to destroy the evidence.

Anyone who would be proud of this guy or his championships (especially this one) must be a supporter of cheating. Any lesser player (IE not the face of a franchise) would be banned from the league for tarnishing the integrity of the game.
Shemp, you sound like an idiot when you spew this stuff that you expect everyone else to accept as gospel. Let's address this point by point.

Destroy evidence - who says the phone is "evidence"? The NFL has no legal rights to the phone, so how can it be "evidence"? And who says that the things on that phone that Brady didn't want to be accessed by any unauthorized individuals have ANYTHING to do with football at all. He is a multi-millionaire celebrity, married to an multi-millionaire international superstar model celebrity. There couldn't possibly be anything on his phone that he wouldn't want anyone not within his control to see except some texts about footballs, right?

Become angry - who says Brady hasn't become angry? I've seen plenty of articles of those around Tom talking about how upset he is about how this process has played out.

Must be a supporter of cheating - says who? Just because you think it doesn't make it so.

Any lesser player (IE not the face of a franchise) would be banned... - There have been several "face of a franchise" players that have been banned when sufficient proof was provided. You might want to Google Paul Hornung and Alex Karras. Or Alex Rodriguez. Or Pete Rose.

The NFL's masterful PR department knows that all they had to do was leak the story "Brady destroyed his phone" without any additional details of why and what his practices had always been and what he had shared with them about efforts to help still track down text messages and the court of public opinion would readily jump to the conclusion that he must have been trying to cover up evidence. I, for one, will wait to see how this comes out in federal court rather than in the court of public opinion.

And, for the record, I am proud of Brady and his accomplishments and his championships, but I am most certainly not a supporter of cheating.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 12:50 PM

and other than creating fodder for many, this really has no bearing on anything real world.

will people stop watching football? nope
will people stop loving the Patriots? nope
will people stop hating the patriots? nope
will people move from loving to hating the patriots? nope
will footballs ratings drop? nope
will Goodell look like he is the right executive to lead this organization? nope
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 12:57 PM

Most importantly, I have never written, texted, emailed to anybody at anytime, anything related to football air pressure before this issue was raised at the AFC Championship game in January.

There you have it a confession note the word BEFORE. The cover-up after the fact is worse than the crime (if we can call this a crime with a straight face)
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 01:02 PM

I will not allow my unfair discipline to become a precedent for other NFL players without a fight.

he is nice I change my mind he is just trying to protect other players who cheat in the future.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 01:04 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
and other than creating fodder for many, this really has no bearing on anything real world.

will people stop watching football? nope
will people stop loving the Patriots? nope
will people stop hating the patriots? nope
will people move from loving to hating the patriots? nope
will footballs ratings drop? nope
will Goodell look like he is the right executive to lead this organization? nope

Amen!
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 01:07 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
Originally Posted By TB 12
I agree the union shouldn't whine about something they agreed to in the CBA.


See we can agree on something's.




confused
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 01:08 PM

I thought you came back to Brady's corner.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 01:21 PM

"How many times do I have to say it? ... Well, if it can't be any clearer than `I've never taken drugs,'"

"We're sick and tired of these allegations and we're going to do everything we can to fight them. They're absolutely untrue" –

"At the end of the day, I have nothing to hide," –

"I have never doped"

Lance Armstrong Quotes
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 01:24 PM

So because Lance was dishonest, it must mean Tom is being dishonest?
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 01:27 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
I thought you came back to Brady's corner.


It isn't that- I didn't understand the portion of the post I quoted.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 01:29 PM

Ed, in case you were not aware, every time Lance said that, he had his fingers crossed, so it didn't count.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 01:30 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
So because Lance was dishonest, it must mean Tom is being dishonest?


I think it is the old "if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck..."
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 01:33 PM


I agree the union shouldn't whine about something they agreed to in the CBA.

CBA, Art. 46, § 1(a); id., App. A, ¶ 15. Grants Goodall the ability to discipline players.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 01:34 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
So because Lance was dishonest, it must mean Tom is being dishonest?


nope Just relying on what is said by a multimillionaire sports figure is not always true.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 01:47 PM

I don't disagree. Nor is everything said by a multi-billion dollar enterprise (NFL) true - shall I start digging up some Enron quotes?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 01:51 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
I don't disagree. Nor is everything said by a multi-billion dollar enterprise (NFL) true - shall I start digging up some Enron quotes?


it may be better to quote some of the power companies as they too are "unregulated" monopolies laugh
Posted By: Wolfy

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 01:57 PM

What is with all these public figures destroying there electronics and then saying it has nothing to do with the fact an investigation was requesting to look at said electronics?

Once that happens no matter how clean you are you now look dirty.
Posted By: noelekal

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 02:11 PM

Naah Wolfy.

Not if you're a Superbowl winner with a fan club.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 02:14 PM

In today's TMZ fueled media world, I can't blame Brady for destroying a phone that people were vying to get their hands on and that destruction wouldn't have anything to do with football texts. Brady and his lawyers are smart enough to know that the phone destruction would look bad in the court of public opinion. My gut says there was something on that phone that would have been even more reputation damaging than the conclusions drawn. My gut also says that whatever it is, there is a good chance it has nothing to do with footballs.
Posted By: noelekal

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 02:17 PM

Why I'm sure I couldn't blame Brady.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 02:20 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
In today's TMZ fueled media world, I can't blame Brady for destroying a phone that people were vying to get their hands on and that destruction wouldn't have anything to do with football texts. Brady and his lawyers are smart enough to know that the phone destruction would look bad in the court of public opinion. My gut says there was something on that phone that would have been even more reputation damaging than the conclusions drawn. My gut also says that whatever it is, there is a good chance it has nothing to do with footballs.



so you are saying that he was cheating but not with a deflated football?
Posted By: DD Regs

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 02:23 PM

Patriot Press Conference happening now on ESPN radio...for those who care.
Posted By: Wolfy

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 02:26 PM

what are they saying? We can not stream here.
Posted By: DD Regs

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 02:28 PM

To quote Bill...
1. "We are just trying to get the team ready for the season"
2. "That has already been addressed"

Repeat 1 and 2.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 02:29 PM

It's a Bill Belichick press conference, so I can assure you they're not saying anything. We're on to training camp.
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 02:41 PM

Can he plead the 5th since he destroyed his phone?

Man, Brady needs to turn in his Michigan ring, this is bad.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 03:01 PM

For those who are protesting Brady's innocence in this entire issue, what, if anything, would be compelling evidence that would make you think otherwise? or, is there any evidence that would make you think he was guilty? or at least knowledgeable?
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 03:07 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
...My gut says there was something on that phone that would have been even more reputation damaging than the conclusions drawn. My gut also says that whatever it is, there is a good chance it has nothing to do with footballs.


my gut says this is a simple process to remove said "suspicious, non-football stuff reputation damaging stuff" and share the texts with the NFL...

my gut also says Brady knew and is lying

my gut also says he didn't need to destroy his cell phone upon purchase of a new one, he could have held it and cleaned it up and left nothing but the "phantom" texts in the event he wanted to be up front

my gut says Brady is doing damage control because he knows he is guilty

my gut also tells me know one in this thread will change their mind about his guilt or innocence

my gut also says it is time to eat a snack, as it is growling
Posted By: thomasj

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 03:16 PM

I do not like the Patriots or Tom Brady but I have not seen anything but circumstantial evidence and have not yet seen anything that directly links him to the allegations. If this were being tried by the standards of our country's legal system, I don't think there is a chance he would be charged much less convicted.

I very much doubt that Brady was texting with these knucklehead locker room attendants or anyone else about this. I think he either did not feel that the league had the authority to go through his personal cell phone or he felt there was something on his phone that would damage his reputation much more than this scandal.

I think that the players union should take note of this and several other scandals that have hit the sport in the past few years and fight in the next contract to have these things decided by an arbitration committee of some sort rather than giving the commissioner all of this power. The questionable investigations and punishments are hurting the sport almost as much as the incidents themselves.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 03:21 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
For those who are protesting Brady's innocence in this entire issue, what, if anything, would be compelling evidence that would make you think otherwise? or, is there any evidence that would make you think he was guilty? or at least knowledgeable?


How about something that links him to the allegations?

I have maintained from the beginning that if it is proven he knew and or directed the deflation, then he deserves the punishment. Until then I am not convinced.
Posted By: MB Guy

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 03:22 PM

I think he did request to have the balls deflated to his tastes.

Did it allow him an advantage? Probably.

Did it cause enough of a difference to win the games where the balls were deflated? Maybe, but it's only one aspect of the game and not enough to make them into the winning franchise they have been since he's been QB'ing.

I have we heard enough about this subject? Absolutely. Do the suspension, monitor the balls going forward, and let's move on to something that actually matters.
Posted By: DD Regs

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 03:32 PM

I don't see what he is being acused of as any different than, scuffing a baseball, spitting on a baseball, using too much pine tar, too tight a jersey, loosened stitches on a jersey, spraying non-stick on a jersey, faking an injury in basketball, or soccer, making your car 1/2 inch shorter in NASCAR. The punishment does not fit the crime.

Bottom line is Brady is making this worse on himself. The league agreed to give the Commish this authority, and now don't want to follow it by cooperating.

I can understand what may have been on Brady's phone that he did not want or trust the NFL to have it. May have been nothing related to NFL, but my guess it did. And if he did text the equipment guys, could they not obtain the equipment guys phones and see if they received text from Brady? Wouldn't need Tom's phone.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 03:39 PM

Originally Posted By DD Regs
And if he did text the equipment guys, could they not obtain the equipment guys phones and see if they received text from Brady? Wouldn't need Tom's phone.
They did obtain their phones and there were no texts from Brady.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 04:38 PM

if you look at my phone, I have no texts either, I delete them after I read them...doesn't everyone?
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 04:40 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By DD Regs
And if he did text the equipment guys, could they not obtain the equipment guys phones and see if they received text from Brady? Wouldn't need Tom's phone.
They did obtain their phones and there were no texts from Brady.


well, circumstantial, at best...
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 04:56 PM

This circumvention of the well known rules on ball inflation should result in more than a lousy 4 game suspension.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 05:01 PM

from Brady's statetment, or, as Paul Harvey would say "and now, the rest of the story"

Quote:
"To try and reconcile the record and fully cooperate with the investigation after I was disciplined in May, we turned over detailed pages of cell phone records and all of the emails that Mr. Wells requested. We even contacted the phone company to see if there was any possible way we could retrieve any/all of the actual text messages from my old phone. In short, we exhausted every possibility to give the NFL everything we could and offered to go thru the identity for every text and phone call during the relevant time. Regardless, the NFL knows that Mr. Wells already had ALL relevant communications with Patriots personnel that either Mr. Wells saw or that I was questioned about in my appeal hearing. There is no "smoking gun" and this controversy is manufactured to distract from the fact they have zero evidence of wrongdoing.


gee, AFTER he was disciplined he wanted to cooperate? may have saved all this headache if he did it before. and, to use his own words, if he was not "required" to do such during the investigation, why was he so willing to do so after the investigation was closed? because he knew no proof could be found on the "destroyed" phone? trying to make himself look good? or better, to portray himself a victim...
Posted By: thomasj

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 06:38 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
if you look at my phone, I have no texts either, I delete them after I read them...doesn't everyone?
I don't but my ex-wife used to smile
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 06:59 PM

Being that the Patriots have been known to film on everything that goes on during the game, cant the NFL just subpoena the pats to hand over tapes that show Brady deflating the balls? unless they just film the opponents? Hmmmm smirk
Posted By: burkemi

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 07:55 PM

In the world of football, I despise all things New England, Kraft, Belichick, and Brady. I feel there's enough evidence (call it circumstantial all you'd like) and especicially the way with which Brady has handled himself speaks of guilt in my opinion (admittedly a biased opinion). But, as MB Guy said in an earlier post, the deflated footballs may have provided (probably did provide) an advantage; but not enough of an advantage to supply the butt-kicking they handed to Indy in the AFC Champ. Did it occur earlier in the season? Maybe, maybe not. All that said, Bill Belichick is a football genius and Brady is a top 5 QB all time. They're cheats and liars - talented cheats and liars - but still all the same. I don't understand why they felt the need to cheat when they were already in position to win. Hate them or love them (I despise them) their dominance in the NFL over the past decade and a half is irrefutable.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 07:59 PM

I don't understand why they felt the need to cheat when they were already in position to win

could be if not for cheating they would not have made it to the SB. Deflated balls are better in wet weather in a game they just barely won.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 08:07 PM

Originally Posted By thomasj
Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
if you look at my phone, I have no texts either, I delete them after I read them...doesn't everyone?
I don't but my ex-wife used to smile


you just let your texts grow and grow? I get a text from my kid asking a question, I answer and delete. texts from others are the same way. email is same way, answer and delete...I hate clutter
Posted By: MyBrainHurts

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 08:10 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore

email is same way, answer and delete...


I may or may not keep a copy on the private server in my home.
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 08:15 PM

“My assistant Jack Daniels and I actually destroy a cellphone every four months or so. Usually just the screen but I get it,” Rams defensive end Chris Long tweeted Tuesday.
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 08:15 PM

This same thing happens to me, but with my assistant, Tank Tangueray.
Posted By: thomasj

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 08:44 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
Originally Posted By thomasj
Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
if you look at my phone, I have no texts either, I delete them after I read them...doesn't everyone?
I don't but my ex-wife used to smile


you just let your texts grow and grow? I get a text from my kid asking a question, I answer and delete. texts from others are the same way. email is same way, answer and delete...I hate clutter
My text program deletes them after so long or so many - doesn't really bother me.
Posted By: Sound Tactic

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 09:27 PM

Quote:
have not yet seen anything that directly links him to the allegations.


If the NFL had subpoena power you would have much more than circumstantial evidence and you would have a ball boy testifying under oath.

Quote:
If this were being tried by the standards of our country's legal system, I don't think there is a chance he would be charged much less convicted.


That is because you are not factoring into the fact that deflator and the texts would all be public record. If this were tried in the court of law the NE Patriots would be suspended as a team and probably have to give back every Super Bowl. Then, we will now have to factor in the criminal misconduct as it pertains to cheating and how it effects legal sports betting.

Quote:
I very much doubt that Brady was texting with these knucklehead locker room attendants or anyone else about this. I think he either did not feel that the league had the authority to go through his personal cell phone or he felt there was something on his phone that would damage his reputation much more than this scandal.


He plays for the league, the league has the right to conduct their investigation. I am sure he DESTROYED (I keep saying this and I don't think people get it), evidence because he was innocent? Yeah right!

Quote:
I think that the players union should take note of this and several other scandals that have hit the sport in the past few years and fight in the next contract to have these things decided by an arbitration committee of some sort rather than giving the commissioner all of this power. The questionable investigations and punishments are hurting the sport almost as much as the incidents themselves.


This I agree with you on. I think Goodell has ruined the sport. However, for the first time I think Goodell is right and everyone except for New England fans seems to know it. I have read opinion article after opinion article and no one is taking Brady's side except for NE fans. Or as I will now call both of them, cheat supporters.

Quote:
Posted By: noelekal

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 09:31 PM

Wonder if the NFL will make millions and millions next season over this scandal? Patriots versus the world will sell.
Posted By: Sound Tactic

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/29/15 11:46 PM

Just saw the Kraft interview and I think it is funny he is mad about the headline but not about the part about destroying the evidence. Plus, Brady claims he did not destroy evidence.... no wait, lets change the wording.... he did not destroy the cellphone to destroy evidence.

This is laughable.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/30/15 10:55 AM

If Kraft is that outraged and has no faith in the league he always has the option of selling the team. Coming off a SB* win the team should bring in mega bucks. I do not see that happening as the outrage is fake and he know Brady is a cheat.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/30/15 12:58 PM

he should be outraged at the embarrassing situation his personnel put him in...zero cooperation across the board for the investigation...this lack of cooperation is what caused the NFL to draw the conclusions they did and issue the penalty...
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/30/15 01:14 PM

about sums it up

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sport...s-and-25-links/
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/30/15 02:14 PM

well, this seems to deflate all the arguments about what Brady should have done or not done, and what he was required to do...

Quote:
More important than Brady’s alleged role in altering the footballs was his lack of cooperation with the investigation. The NFL’s collective bargaining agreement requires players to cooperate with all investigations, but Brady refused to turn over his cell phone and it was later revealed that he had an assistant destroy the phone before meeting with investigators. That, as much as the actual rules violation, is what the NFL is punishing.
Posted By: CB#3

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/30/15 04:10 PM

In most cases, the cover up is worse than the crime. I'm glad the NFLPA case was moved to New York. It had no business being tried in Minnesota other than having a judge who was probably a football fan and ruled favorably for players in the past.
Posted By: PrimeTime

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/30/15 10:48 PM

Different leagues/sport, but just something to throw out there.

Most recently (to me, anyway) in the MLB pitcher Michael Pineda of the Yankees was suspended for 10 games in 2014 for using pine tar to doctor the ball. He was caught, on camera, multiple times before actually being thrown out of the game. A 10 game suspension essentially equals 2 starts in a 5-man rotation. That ratio comparative to the total games/starts of a pitcher for someone caught on camera altering the ball used is significantly lower than the penalty imposed on Brady. And he didn't cooperate until guilty either, he was accused of it far before the actual ejection, and then kept doing it, and again was caught on camera rather than circumstantially. I'd say the pitcher in baseball is comparative to the quarterback in football, directs the team, takes the heat for success/failure for the most part, etc plus there's still other factors that must go right for the pitcher/quarterback to get the W.

Even if, and I do say IF, Brady did it for argument's sake, can we agree that the 4 games is overly harsh? Maybe this is more of a thing against Goodell again which we've essentially agreed on him being the worst, but don't you think either Pineda's suspension should have been longer, or Brady's shorter?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/31/15 10:29 AM

A 10 game suspension essentially equals 2 starts in a 5-man rotation

But did the Yankees team use pin tar on every pitch over the course of several years because Pineda was using it during one (or more) game on a few pitches? Did Pineda question the authority of MLB to even question him? Did Pineda throw a temper tantrum and have some flunkie break the camera that had footage of him cheating?


can we agree that the 4 games is overly harsh? nope


but don't you think either Pineda's suspension should have been longer, or Brady's shorter? nope again (see George Brett Pine tar) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Tar_Incident


Sorry Apples and Oranges
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/31/15 01:00 PM

Originally Posted By PrimeTime

Even if, and I do say IF, Brady did it for argument's sake, can we agree that the 4 games is overly harsh?


if anything, I think it is too lenient. you have plenty of instances where players are doing things off field not related to football, not impacting the game, just "damaging the NFL's reputation", and they get a much longer suspension, and those have no impact on the game. Here, you have something with direct impact on the game, alteration of outcome of games, and definitely creates a black eye for the game and the league. 4 games is easy.
Posted By: PrimeTime

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/31/15 01:02 PM

Yeah I figured it might be a stretch to some. I'll take a lap.
Posted By: noelekal

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/31/15 01:23 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
Originally Posted By PrimeTime

Even if, and I do say IF, Brady did it for argument's sake, can we agree that the 4 games is overly harsh?


if anything, I think it is too lenient. you have plenty of instances where players are doing things off field not related to football, not impacting the game, just "damaging the NFL's reputation", and they get a much longer suspension, and those have no impact on the game. Here, you have something with direct impact on the game, alteration of outcome of games, and definitely creates a black eye for the game and the league. 4 games is easy.


^This!^
Posted By: PrimeTime

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/31/15 01:28 PM

Off the field would also entail PEDs that would absolutely relate to football. The domestic violence things I would agree with though but more often than not we do see those reduced after the initial suspensions, such as recently with Le'Veon Bell's going from 3 games to 2 for a repeated substance abuse (not PED's in that case).
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/31/15 01:36 PM

"Off the field would also entail PEDs " why? That is like saying deflating the ball is off field as it happened in the locker room.
Posted By: DD Regs

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/31/15 01:40 PM

It depends on what type of PED he was taking, could have been an Off the Field issue whistle
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/31/15 02:42 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
Originally Posted By PrimeTime

Even if, and I do say IF, Brady did it for argument's sake, can we agree that the 4 games is overly harsh?


if anything, I think it is too lenient. you have plenty of instances where players are doing things off field not related to football, not impacting the game, just "damaging the NFL's reputation", and they get a much longer suspension, and those have no impact on the game. Here, you have something with direct impact on the game, alteration of outcome of games, and definitely creates a black eye for the game and the league. 4 games is easy.


No 4 game suspensions for the same violation of doctoring footballs despite it being caught on video:

http://espn.go.com/blog/minnesota-viking...anthers-vikings


I will wait for the explanations as to how this is different.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/31/15 02:45 PM

I hope you aren't awaiting an explanation from me, as I don't have one, that would fall to the NFL. And we all agree they are inconsistent in their application of punishment.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/31/15 02:47 PM

Originally Posted By PrimeTime
Off the field would also entail PEDs that would absolutely relate to football.


I was more thinking the ones that have trouble with the law, alcohol or recreational drug use, traffic violations, violence, not PED related.

The use of PEDs is policed and dealt with, although not always timely or in the same manner, but you make a valid point. It definitely can have impact if not caught in a timely fashion.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/31/15 02:57 PM

Originally Posted By TB 12
Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
Originally Posted By PrimeTime

Even if, and I do say IF, Brady did it for argument's sake, can we agree that the 4 games is overly harsh?


if anything, I think it is too lenient. you have plenty of instances where players are doing things off field not related to football, not impacting the game, just "damaging the NFL's reputation", and they get a much longer suspension, and those have no impact on the game. Here, you have something with direct impact on the game, alteration of outcome of games, and definitely creates a black eye for the game and the league. 4 games is easy.


No 4 game suspensions for the same violation of doctoring footballs despite it being caught on video:

http://espn.go.com/blog/minnesota-viking...anthers-vikings


I will wait for the explanations as to how this is different.


And no 4 game suspension for letting the air out of footballs.4 games for not cooperating with the league and making Goodall look more like a fool ( which prior was thought to be impossible)
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/31/15 03:05 PM

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/footba...ticle-1.2309962

I am thinking more than 4 for this mess.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/31/15 03:21 PM

they should add additional time for that horrendous shirt he is wearing in his mug shot...
Posted By: MB Guy

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/31/15 03:52 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
they should add additional time for that horrendous shirt he is wearing in his mug shot...


Glad I wasn't the only one who noticed that. Sheesh man.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/31/15 03:55 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
I hope you aren't awaiting an explanation from me, as I don't have one, that would fall to the NFL. And we all agree they are inconsistent in their application of punishment.
And that's the primary basis of the NFLPA court case against the NFL.
Posted By: John Burnett

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/31/15 04:07 PM

Two observations, and I preface them by stating that I am a Brady and Pats fan.

1. If the league has a rule on inflation of the balls, the league itself (in the person of the on-field officials), not the teams' equipment folks, should have sole control of the balls for each game.

2. If team owners are unhappy with the haphazard way that punishment is doled out, they can do something about it. They could push the league to adopt punishment guidelines and allow the Commish to exceed the guidelines only with the approval of a majority (or supermajority) of owners.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/31/15 05:46 PM

gee John, thanks for ruining this thread by inserting logic... crazy
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/31/15 05:49 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
I hope you aren't awaiting an explanation from me, as I don't have one, that would fall to the NFL. And we all agree they are inconsistent in their application of punishment.
And that's the primary basis of the NFLPA court case against the NFL.


shame on the NFLPA for granting sole powers of application and punishment to the commissioner...of course, during the collective bargaining process, they were much more concerned with getting more money from the owners to the players by way of revenue sharing, so I suppose they had to give somewhere, and this appears to be where they gave. if this were a Reg E claim, we'd all agree that buyers remorse is not a valid argument
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/31/15 06:02 PM

2. If team owners are unhappy with the haphazard way that punishment is doled out, they can do something about it. They could push the league to adopt punishment guidelines and allow the Commish to exceed the guidelines only with the approval of a majority (or supermajority) of owners.

John

Just like in banking one can not make a rule and penalty for every imaginable possibility an ethically challenged person would do. One would not expect a written maximum penalty for adjusting the volume of speakers when the opponent takes the offence, a Coach tripping a player in play or fiddling with the air pressure of balls. I have always said just when I think I have seen it all (in banking) something happens to make me realize that I have a long way to go to see it all
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/31/15 06:21 PM

they should just use that plastic-like balls we all had as kids that require no inflation...then this would no longer be an issue
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/31/15 06:23 PM

If they used Nerf ball Tebow would have a chance starting somewhere.
Posted By: Wolfy

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/31/15 07:53 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
If they used Nerf ball Tebow would have a chance starting somewhere.


Sorry not sure I get the joke or reference. Did he do Nerf commercials?
Posted By: Sound Tactic

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 07/31/15 09:24 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
I hope you aren't awaiting an explanation from me, as I don't have one, that would fall to the NFL. And we all agree they are inconsistent in their application of punishment.
And that's the primary basis of the NFLPA court case against the NFL.


OK just making sure. Now that I realize that case is not about Brady's innocence which he still is claiming to be. If I was him, I would just accept the suspension and move on. He is lucky he is not penalized for tarnishing the game like Pete Rose was. Brady is a liar, and a cheater.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/03/15 12:47 PM

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/medals-won-blood-doping-athletes-report-article-1.2312295

One-third of medals in Olympic, World Championship endurance events from 2001-2012 won by athletes with suspicious blood doping test results: report
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/03/15 05:48 PM

Originally Posted By Sound Tactic
He is lucky he is not penalized for tarnishing the game like Pete Rose was. Brady is a liar, and a cheater.
You mean like Jerry Rice? Oh, wait...

Shemp, have you visited this site: www.yourteamcheats.com ? Looks like lots and lots of tarnish to go around to me.
Posted By: noelekal

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/03/15 06:10 PM

Reading this thread makes one grateful he's written off following sports of any kind.
Posted By: Wolfy

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/03/15 06:27 PM

Good thing we do not slap a guilty on just any ones suspicious activities with out verification. Unless we badge you as a terrorist then we can wack you with a drone and it is 'OK'.

But holy cow with that many test results be so close it seems they need to find more accurate tests and I bet they catch many more cheaters. O_O
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/03/15 06:38 PM

professional sports, for most athletes, has a short life span...they need to do everything they can to ensure victory...this includes cheating, for many of them...as the list of banned substances grows, so does the research on how to get around these substances...with other ones, or ways to mask it...or a combination of many that all fall below the limit but collectively give you a boost...
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 08/03/15 06:41 PM

snip from http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdo...-204813564.html

In reference to the 20 page report from Goodell justifying his upholding of the suspension:


1. The second factual finding made makes little sense to upholding the punishment

Read this and tell me what is wrong with it:

"Second, at least by the time of the AFC Championship Game, the inflation level of the footballs was a matter of particular interest to Mr. Brady. He told the Patriots' equipment staff that he wanted the footballs inflated at the lowest permissible level; he reviewed a highlighted copy of the provision of the Playing Rules that addressed inflation of footballs; and he instructed the equipment staff to present a copy of the rule to the game officials. On the day of the AFC Championship Game, Mr. McNally told referee Walt Anderson that Mr. Brady wanted the balls inflated to a pressure of 12.5 psi. He told the investigators that "Tom ... always has me pass a message to the Official's [sic] that he likes the balls at the minimum permissible PSI of 12.5. ... I know this is what Tom wants, and I have been personally told by him of the ball weight preference."

OK, so ... Brady went out of his way to make sure that the balls were inflated to 12.5 psi so they weren't against the rules? That's exactly what that says, that Brady went out of his way to make sure the balls were to his preference but still within the rules, going so far as to review the rulebook to make sure. Yet the NFL presents this as, "Well he did all of this legally BUT IT MAKES YA THINK DOESN'T IT?"



My thought all along is that Brady expressed his preference of having the ball as close to the 12.5 psi minimum. Now, if the ballboy took it upon himself to deflate beyond that, the employee should be punished accordingly. Without proof Brady told them to deflate them below 12.5, he shouldn't be punished. 4 games for not cooperating is unprecedented and ridiculous.

I heard Brady live on WEEI radio the morning after they beat the Colts and one of the first questions asked was what he knew about the reports after the game related to the low PSI footballs. He said he had no idea. I am sure after hearing that he started calling the equipment guys asking if they knew what was going on.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 08/03/15 07:34 PM

Originally Posted By TB 12
OK, so ... Brady went out of his way to make sure that the balls were inflated to 12.5 psi so they weren't against the rules?



well, to read this, he said that his preference is the minimum, he gave highlighted rule saying what the minimum is...but I see nothing that states where Brady checked the PSI, which is really the only way he could "make sure" they were inflated properly...

kind of like when I give my kid $20 to go to a movie and I tell him bring me the change...I know i'm not getting any change...
Posted By: Peepers

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/03/15 08:38 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
"How many times do I have to say it? ... Well, if it can't be any clearer than `I've never taken drugs,'"

"We're sick and tired of these allegations and we're going to do everything we can to fight them. They're absolutely untrue" –

"At the end of the day, I have nothing to hide," –

"I have never doped"

Lance Armstrong Quotes



They ESPYs should have an award in Lance's honor for the biggest loser athlete
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 08/03/15 09:06 PM

Originally Posted By TB 12
snip from http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdo...-204813564.html

In reference to the 20 page report from Goodell justifying his upholding of the suspension:


1. The second factual finding made makes little sense to upholding the punishment

Read this and tell me what is wrong with it:

"Second, at least by the time of the AFC Championship Game, the inflation level of the footballs was a matter of particular interest to Mr. Brady. He told the Patriots' equipment staff that he wanted the footballs inflated at the lowest permissible level; he reviewed a highlighted copy of the provision of the Playing Rules that addressed inflation of footballs; and he instructed the equipment staff to present a copy of the rule to the game officials. On the day of the AFC Championship Game, Mr. McNally told referee Walt Anderson that Mr. Brady wanted the balls inflated to a pressure of 12.5 psi. He told the investigators that "Tom ... always has me pass a message to the Official's [sic] that he likes the balls at the minimum permissible PSI of 12.5. ... I know this is what Tom wants, and I have been personally told by him of the ball weight preference."

OK, so ... Brady went out of his way to make sure that the balls were inflated to 12.5 psi so they weren't against the rules? That's exactly what that says, that Brady went out of his way to make sure the balls were to his preference but still within the rules, going so far as to review the rulebook to make sure. Yet the NFL presents this as, "Well he did all of this legally BUT IT MAKES YA THINK DOESN'T IT?"



My thought all along is that Brady expressed his preference of having the ball as close to the 12.5 psi minimum. Now, if the ballboy took it upon himself to deflate beyond that, the employee should be punished accordingly. Without proof Brady told them to deflate them below 12.5, he shouldn't be punished. 4 games for not cooperating is unprecedented and ridiculous.

I heard Brady live on WEEI radio the morning after they beat the Colts and one of the first questions asked was what he knew about the reports after the game related to the low PSI footballs. He said he had no idea. I am sure after hearing that he started calling the equipment guys asking if they knew what was going on.


But once again the penalty was not for him deflating the ball is was for not cooperating with the investigation and being a dirt bag about it. It would appear that the Pats determined on its own who they believed were guilty otherwise they would not have booted the staff. To put it into bank terms when a teller is counting out bills for a number of years they can feel the fake ones. On would think that a Pro QB would feel an underinflated ball. Hence the should have known.
Posted By: B_F

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/04/15 12:05 PM

Originally Posted By Excess
In most cases, the cover up is worse than the crime.
Ask Pete Rose!
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/04/15 12:24 PM

http://hushsports.com/2009-jets-patriots-incident-becomes-issue-in-brady-case-nbcsports-com/

so in 2009 the Pats whined about the Jets tampering with footballs (5 years earlier). And to compare a Kicker to a QB is way out there. Blecheat claim about not knowing about anything air pressure has also now been deflated.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/04/15 12:33 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
http://hushsports.com/2009-jets-patriots-incident-becomes-issue-in-brady-case-nbcsports-com/

so in 2009 the Pats whined about the Jets tampering with footballs (5 years earlier). And to compare a Kicker to a QB is way out there. Blecheat claim about not knowing about anything air pressure has also now been deflated.


What is Blecheat?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/04/15 12:49 PM

Belecheat?

I’ve learned a lot more about this process in the last three days than I knew — or had talked about — in the last 40 years that I’ve coached in this league. I had no knowledge of the various steps involved in the game balls, the process that happened between when they were prepared and went to the officials and went to the game, so I’ve learned a lot about that. Obviously, I understand that each team has the opportunity to prepare the balls the way they want, give them to the officials, and the game officials either approve or disapprove the balls, and that really was the end of it for me, until I learned a little bit more about it the last couple days.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...deflated-balls/


It appears that he had some knowledge in 2009
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/04/15 01:08 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
http://hushsports.com/2009-jets-patriots-incident-becomes-issue-in-brady-case-nbcsports-com/

so in 2009 the Pats whined about the Jets tampering with footballs (5 years earlier). And to compare a Kicker to a QB is way out there. Blecheat claim about not knowing about anything air pressure has also now been deflated.
Man, talk about reading between the lines. Maybe you got an entirely different version of this linked article than I did. Because my copy doesn't reference anything about the Patriots bringing the issue up with the NFL at all (whining), nor does it reference anything about Belichick knowing anything about it. Where are you getting these ideas that the Patriots triggered the 2009 investigation and that Belichick was the one who knew all about it then?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/04/15 01:25 PM

how else would they know unless the Pats told them?

For some odd reason the Pats have this issue with the Jets. Personally I do not get it as the Pats have put together a team that can beat them 99 out of 100 times.

And do you think any Pro Manager in any sport would not know about doctored equipment after it was used against them?
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/04/15 01:37 PM

every team sends a report to the league after every game...in this they have the chance to discuss anything and everything they believe went wrong in the game...from simple things like a player used the wrong cleat color, style of approved sweatband, problems with calls, officiating, noise over PA system, if recording devices were used, access to sufficient towels and soap in the locker room, and also included would be anything they felt the other team did that was in violation of any NFL rule. This report is one of the responsibilities of the head coach and the GM. Not sure how a coach could be in the league 40 years and not be aware of the rules they have to follow, otherwise, he is a poor coach and his team would be at a distinct disadvantage in a number of areas - not just ball pressure.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/04/15 01:44 PM

The pats should just accept their punishment and move on. so the can concentrate on the new year and figure out a way to make moveable sidelines and end zone markings.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/04/15 01:53 PM

Here are some facts:

1) Blecheat (as Ed calls him) and Kraft were cleared in the Wells report;
2) There is no evidence that Brady ordered code red. His clear preference was to have the balls inflated to the lowest legal level and the report spells out the steps he took to ensure that happened. If the ball boy deflated it after the officials "checked" (and I use that term loosely) then that is a violation of the rules and those found guilty should pay the penalty-whatever that is. I do find it laughable that violations such as the balls being warmed up on the sidelines is brushed aside while the alleged deflation is the exact same thing. Tampering with the equipment to gain an advantage.

If the argument is Brady is suspended for 1/4 of the season for lack of cooperation, there is no precedent for that severe of a penalty.

This is clearly a make up call for the NFL's bungling of prior conduct issues.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/04/15 02:01 PM

http://abc7ny.com/sports/union-nfl-ravens-not-cooperating/365049/
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/04/15 02:03 PM

1) Blecheat (as Ed calls him) and Kraft were cleared in the Wells report; No one is "cleared" there was just no evidence against either one

I found an additional one but no penalty was issued.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/08/gostkowski-refused-to-cooperate-too/
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/04/15 02:11 PM

Originally Posted By TB 12
This is clearly a make up call for the NFL's bungling of prior conduct issues.



well, when the NFLPA grants judge, jury, prosecutor, executioner, review, and arbitration rights to 1 person, you run that risk...
Posted By: MB Guy

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/04/15 02:12 PM

Thread summary:

Non-Pat's Peeps: They cheated; "Belcheat" knew about Brady requesting the balls being deflated because he likes them that way, and then Brady destroyed his phone so he didn't have to turn it in due to incriminating text messages. Belcheat and Brady are cheaters, Brady is a whiner, but a pretty dang good QB.

Pat's Peeps: Belichick is an awesome coach, Brady is the BEST QB "EVAH" (I cringed when I wrote that) and there's no proof they cheated and it's all hearsay and conjecture until someone shows them proof/actual film of Brady with a ball deflator in his hands lowering the PSI. That's about it....oh, wait, and that every other team cheats as much or more than the Pats.

I think that's it.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/04/15 02:14 PM

they could in their next contract have that removed along with a give back of some sort to the NFL.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/04/15 02:15 PM

excellent summarization MB...now, if they just had a "sleeveless emojie"
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/04/15 02:16 PM

Originally Posted By MB Guy
Thread summary:

Non-Pat's Peeps: They cheated; "Belcheat" knew about Brady requesting the balls being deflated because he likes them that way, and then Brady destroyed his phone so he didn't have to turn it in due to incriminating text messages. Belcheat and Brady are cheaters, Brady is a whiner, but a pretty dang good QB.

Pat's Peeps: Belichick is an awesome coach, Brady is the BEST QB "EVAH" (I cringed when I wrote that) and there's no proof they cheated and it's all hearsay and conjecture until someone shows them proof/actual film of Brady with a ball deflator in his hands lowering the PSI. That's about it....oh, wait, and that every other team cheats as much or more than the Pats.

I think that's it.


You missed trouncing out a website (written by a pats fan) that state most teams cheat more because they get regular penalties during the game.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/04/15 02:23 PM

I found the proof:


http://www.geeksandcleats.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/brady-deflate.jpg
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/04/15 02:26 PM

Just need to find one with his pants on fire.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/04/15 02:50 PM

Here are some facts:

1) Blecheat (as Ed calls him) and Kraft were cleared in the Wells report;
2) There is no evidence that Brady ordered code red. His clear preference was to have the balls inflated to the lowest legal level and the report spells out the steps he took to ensure that happened. If the ball boy deflated it after the officials "checked" (and I use that term loosely) then that is a violation of the rules and those found guilty should pay the penalty-whatever that is. I do find it laughable that violations such as the balls being warmed up on the sidelines is brushed aside while the alleged deflation is the exact same thing. Tampering with the equipment to gain an advantage.

If the argument is Brady is suspended for 1/4 of the season for lack of cooperation, there is no precedent for that severe of a penalty.

This is clearly a make up call for the NFL's bungling of prior conduct issues.
Posted By: Jafo

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/04/15 03:35 PM

Goodell: Brady, did you order the Code Red?!

Players Union: You don't have to answer that question!

Brady: I'll answer the question. You want answers?

Goodell: I think I'm entitled!

Brady:You want answers?!

Goodell: I want the truth!

Brady: You can't handle the truth!
Posted By: Peepers

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/04/15 03:46 PM

Brady's head should be chopped off

then Ted Williams' head should be put in its place (thaw it out first of course)

then Brady should play for the Red Sox, there are no balls to deflate

and don't give me he could scuff the ball, cork a bat, etc. let's focus on air, it's all about the air
Posted By: MyBrainHurts

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/04/15 04:06 PM

So, do you still pick up Brady in your fantasy draft, knowing you're going to have him on the bench for four weeks, but also knowing he's going to give you a bunch of points the rest of the way? There's such a shortage of good, reliable fantasy QBs.
Posted By: MonicaMc

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/04/15 04:18 PM

Originally Posted By MyBrainHurts
So, do you still pick up Brady in your fantasy draft, knowing you're going to have him on the bench for four weeks, but also knowing he's going to give you a bunch of points the rest of the way? There's such a shortage of good, reliable fantasy QBs.


Yesssss.
I picked up Josh Gordon a few years ago knowing he was suspended part of the year and it paid off immensely!
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/04/15 04:26 PM

Originally Posted By MyBrainHurts
So, do you still pick up Brady in your fantasy draft, knowing you're going to have him on the bench for four weeks, but also knowing he's going to give you a bunch of points the rest of the way? There's such a shortage of good, reliable fantasy QBs.


heck no...that way, if you lose the league, you can blame it on Goodell and not having access to brady the entire time...much like you were owner Robert kraft and what he'll be saying come 2016
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 02:51 AM

OK, haters (and you know who you are) - the release of the Brady appeal hearing transcript is fascinating reading. And as Pro Football Talk's Mike Florio points out in several blog posts tonight, paints a very different picture than what Goodell's 20-page ruling did of Brady and his actions. Check it out. Or don't. Up to you.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 10:21 AM

More Lawyer speak not earth shattering.


Q. Okay. Now, have you ever specifically, so again, very specific question, have you ever told anyone on the Patriots after you’ve given to them that they should change the inflation level of the footballs after you approved them or do anything about the inflation level after you approved them?

A. No.


Q. Now, what would be your reaction if Mr. Jastremski or anyone else in the Patriots was doing something to the footballs after you’ve approved it? How would you feel about that?

Very specific After he approved it. It could have been tampered prior.

Q. Sometime after the Jets game, what did Mr. Jastremski tell you he learned about the ball?

A. That the balls were, you know, inflated to, you know, much higher than what they were agreed upon before the game.

Q. Do you recall what number he used?

A. 16.

So he admits to using an overinflated ball against the jets?

I will not review the rest as I have more important things to do and I am not a hater. Once again stated I am not a fan of any team I just like to watch a good game. In my opinion and this may be shocking to Pat fans. Cheating does not make for a good game.

Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 11:08 AM

and for a good read

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/emai...alls/ar-BBlpqu9
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 11:44 AM

Interestingly, the Ravens game was even colder than the Colts game. The Ideal Gas Law, of which virtually no one in the NFL world was aware of before this February, would have had an even greater effect in that game and could have led the Ravens to think something fishy was happening with the balls. When your constantly looking for a conspiracy, everything you see looks like a conspiracy.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 11:46 AM

Troy Vincent also admitted in this appeal that the policy under which the disciplinary action was taken is not a policy that is given to players. Could be a bad sign for those hoping for suspension to be upheld.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 11:47 AM

I think a settlement will happen, it will involve payment of a substantial fine and no admission of guilt.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 11:59 AM

. The Ideal Gas Law, of which virtually no one in the NFL world was aware of before this February


Hmmm

How would one explain balls on only the Patriots sided deflated and not the other side?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 12:02 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
I think a settlement will happen, it will involve payment of a substantial fine and no admission of guilt.


it would be good if the NFL admitted guilt and just have the officials in charge of game balls (with an Official gauge) no air adj. no scuffing or simply the same balls used each side.

Why do easy things need to be made difficult (except for the whining of Manning, Brady and Ben)
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 12:03 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Troy Vincent also admitted in this appeal that the policy under which the disciplinary action was taken is not a policy that is given to players. Could be a bad sign for those hoping for suspension to be upheld.


Why it is not in the contract that it need to be given.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 12:06 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Interestingly, the Ravens game was even colder than the Colts game. The Ideal Gas Law, of which virtually no one in the NFL world was aware of before this February, would have had an even greater effect in that game and could have led the Ravens to think something fishy was happening with the balls. When your constantly looking for a conspiracy, everything you see looks like a conspiracy.


sorry to say that the Fanboy just keeps on coming out for some. Like it or not the balls were deflated on the Pats side only. Unless.... the colts just kept putting air into their balls to keep them legal.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 01:19 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
. The Ideal Gas Law, of which virtually no one in the NFL world was aware of before this February


Hmmm

How would one explain balls on only the Patriots sided deflated and not the other side?


Hmmm...check this out:

From coldhardfootballfacts.com:

Here's the other story uncovered in the Wells Report you've NOT been told: 3 of 4 Colts footballs checked at halftime weighed in under 12.5 PSI by one of the two officials measuring them. Then, they suddenly stopped checking. The other 8 Colts footballs simply, and conveniently, went unchecked.

Here's the Wells Report table showing the PSI of the 4 Colts footballs weighed at halftime as it appears on Page 8. Blakeman and Prioleau are the two NFL officials who measured the balls.


Ball: Blakeman Prioleau
1 12.7 12.35
2 12.75 12.30
3 12.50 12.95
4 12.55 12.15
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 01:29 PM

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/...QN5L/story.html


While it appears true that on one gauge the Colts balls were underinflated on 3 balls the Pats balls were underinflated on BOTH gages.

Source Boston Globe.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 01:54 PM

I wasn't addressing that issue Ed. I responded to your false statement that only the Pats balls were under inflated.
Posted By: Wolfy

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 02:51 PM

Poor Pat, he needs to be told there is medications for that problem.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 02:58 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/...QN5L/story.html


While it appears true that on one gauge the Colts balls were underinflated on 3 balls the Pats balls were underinflated on BOTH gages.

Source Boston Globe.
But the Colts balls also started out at a higher pressure than the Patriots balls. And the Colts balls were used less (and therefore subjected less to the elements) in the 1st half than the Patriots balls. And the Colts balls sat in the warm locker room increasing in pressure during the whole time the Patriots balls were being tested, retested, and filled. And which gauge was it that the referee used before the game? Oh, yeah, we don't know, do we? But we can certainly ignore what that referee says is his best recollection since that certainly doesn't fit the desired outcome.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 03:03 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Troy Vincent also admitted in this appeal that the policy under which the disciplinary action was taken is not a policy that is given to players. Could be a bad sign for those hoping for suspension to be upheld.


Why it is not in the contract that it need to be given.
Because it's historically a policy that has only applied to teams and league officials, not to players.
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 03:26 PM

I bet Brady texts a whole lot less on his new phone.
Posted By: Sound Tactic

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 03:58 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By edAudit
https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/...QN5L/story.html


While it appears true that on one gauge the Colts balls were underinflated on 3 balls the Pats balls were underinflated on BOTH gages.

Source Boston Globe.
But the Colts balls also started out at a higher pressure than the Patriots balls. And the Colts balls were used less (and therefore subjected less to the elements) in the 1st half than the Patriots balls. And the Colts balls sat in the warm locker room increasing in pressure during the whole time the Patriots balls were being tested, retested, and filled. And which gauge was it that the referee used before the game? Oh, yeah, we don't know, do we? But we can certainly ignore what that referee says is his best recollection since that certainly doesn't fit the desired outcome.


Man this defense is laughable. So when a team plays they keep all the balls except the ball used in the locker room. False! Were the Colt's balls tested in the locker room and the NE balls tested on the field next to some cold ice. False! Both sets of balls were exposed to almost identical conditions when tested. If you do not believe they were, I suppose you could submit this miracle information to the league who is largely unaware that the Colt's keep their balls in conditions that violate league rules.

You are getting desperate.

No matter what science you want to bring to up to try and claim your team did not cheat, you still have to wrestle with the fact that there are texts between Brady and the deflator and other texts between the deflator and others that seem to suggest that the deflator knows what he is doing, that Brady is somehow aware, and that things of value are being traded. Then you have to wrestle with the fact that TB was not cooperative in the investigation. Then he had is phone destroyed. These are not the actions of innocent people.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 04:26 PM

Suggests, generally aware, should have known...blah blah blah.
Posted By: noelekal

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 04:44 PM

"I've never seen such devotion in a droid before."
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 04:44 PM

Originally Posted By Sound Tactic
Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By edAudit
https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/...QN5L/story.html


While it appears true that on one gauge the Colts balls were underinflated on 3 balls the Pats balls were underinflated on BOTH gages.

Source Boston Globe.
But the Colts balls also started out at a higher pressure than the Patriots balls. And the Colts balls were used less (and therefore subjected less to the elements) in the 1st half than the Patriots balls. And the Colts balls sat in the warm locker room increasing in pressure during the whole time the Patriots balls were being tested, retested, and filled. And which gauge was it that the referee used before the game? Oh, yeah, we don't know, do we? But we can certainly ignore what that referee says is his best recollection since that certainly doesn't fit the desired outcome.


Man this defense is laughable. So when a team plays they keep all the balls except the ball used in the locker room. False! Were the Colt's balls tested in the locker room and the NE balls tested on the field next to some cold ice. False! Both sets of balls were exposed to almost identical conditions when tested. If you do not believe they were, I suppose you could submit this miracle information to the league who is largely unaware that the Colt's keep their balls in conditions that violate league rules.
Where did I say they keep all the balls not being used in the locker room? I said exposed to the elements. It was widely reported that the Colts kept their sideline balls in a plastic bag on the sidelines when not in use. This keeps them dry (part of the Ideal Gas Law involves moisture) and somewhat insulated. You also completely blow by the fact that the Colts balls sat for at least some period of time in the warm locker room at halftime before they were tested - at least long enough for the Patriots balls to have been tested twice, and refilled with air. You don't think that would have any impact on their air pressure. You sound like someone who just doesn't want to accept that there is science involved. Troy Vincent admitted in his appeal testimony (don't keep coming at me calling me delusional and desperate if you aren't willing to do some basic reading) that neither he, nor anyone else who formed initial conclusions that there must be something going on to warrant further investigation ever considered the Ideal Gas Law or any effect at all of the elements on ball pressure. If they had, it probably would have been a very different handling of the situation, because everyone who takes a realistic look at the data cannot deny that there are enough holes resulting from the lack of recording of key factors such as time, temperature, which gauge was used, etc. to disallow any conclusion to be drawn from the data.

By the way, there are very credible answers addressing the text messaging in the appeal hearing testimony. Goes way beyond just saying that the "deflator" comment could have been referring to weight loss. You should really take the time to read the transcript. Or just keep blind hating.
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 05:10 PM

Flyboy, you are not going to suggest the nickname "deflator" was due to the attendant losing body weight, are you?
Posted By: thomasj

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 05:12 PM

I watched that game and I honestly can't believe that any of this effected the end result. I'm not sure how having under inflated footballs on the Patriots offense prevented the Colts from scoring. If the footballs were re-inflated at half time maybe it actually helped the Patriots since they scored 28 unanswered points in the second half. Did they cheat? Who knows, sounds like there is a lack of anything but circumstantial evidence to prove it. Will Goodell give in, not likely.

One thing is for certain, as long as a few posters in here still have sticks to stir this pot and whips to beat this dead horse, they will because they enjoy arguing and trying to get under the skin of a few other posters.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 05:21 PM

It is not just about one game (if it did or did not we will never know it could have resulted in a turnover on first possession) but it did effect the previous game (small margin victory in poor weather for gripping the ball) and as this has been going on all season...

With proper inflation during the ravens game they may not have even been there playing the colts and it would be a issue for next year.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 05:26 PM

On February 17, 2015, ESPN reporter Kelly Naqi reported that a Patriots ball attendant, Jim McNally, had tried "to introduce an unauthorized football"—lacking the markings found on approved footballs—into the game during the first half.[59] That initial report did not indicate why or exactly when this happened, but did state that Kensil went to the officials' locker room at halftime to inspect the game balls, "in part because of the suspicions McNally's actions raised." Naqi later led a report on ESPN's program Outside the Lines, in which she interviewed an Indianapolis-based ex-referee who claimed that NFL officials had been "aware" of McNally for years and had raised concerns about him. This football was a "'K' ball", one of the footballs used for special teams plays.

Naqi's report was immediately contradicted by another ESPN reporter, Adam Schefter.[60] Schefter's report cited sources stating that a "K" ball had gone missing, and that an NFL employee in charge of collecting game footballs for charity had handed the unmarked ball to McNally. Those sources also claimed that that NFL employee was fired after the game, as he had been taking footballs intended for charity and selling them at a profit "over a period of time".[61]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflategate

it has all been discussed to death so I will just post wiki
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 05:29 PM

New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft says his team provided NFL investigators with coach Bill Belichick's cellphone as it looked into whether Tom Brady or others improperly tampered with footballs used in the playoffs last season.

Kraft said Wednesday that the Patriots provided the NFL with every cellphone requested from team employees who weren't a part of the NFL players' union.

NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell cited the phone as a key reason why he upheld a four-game suspension for Brady for using underinflated footballs in the AFC championship against the Colts.

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/29659...cks-cell-to-nfl

So we can assume that the coach did not (at least) text directions to deflate the balls.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 05:33 PM

Let us just say how many of us will still be working for our current employer if we did not cooperate with a regulator request for information?

I do not think we would just be suspended for 4 days.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 06:20 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
Let us just say how many of us will still be working for our current employer if we did not cooperate with a regulator request for information?

I do not think we would just be suspended for 4 days.
Apples and Oranges. The NFL is not a regulator. And the players belong to a union. If a bank employee's holding company CEO asked for the employee's cell phone, and the employee belonged to a union, and the union and company hadn't agreed that the employee would be required to turn over his phone on request, then I think the union would certainly fight efforts from the employer to punish the employee for that failure.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 06:22 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
It is not just about one game (if it did or did not we will never know it could have resulted in a turnover on first possession) but it did effect the previous game (small margin victory in poor weather for gripping the ball) and as this has been going on all season...

With proper inflation during the ravens game they may not have even been there playing the colts and it would be a issue for next year.
Where on earth is there any shred of evidence that the balls were under inflated for the Ravens game?
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 07:43 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
On February 17, 2015, ESPN reporter Kelly Naqi reported that a Patriots ball attendant, Jim McNally, had tried "to introduce an unauthorized football"—lacking the markings found on approved footballs—into the game during the first half.[59] That initial report did not indicate why or exactly when this happened, but did state that Kensil went to the officials' locker room at halftime to inspect the game balls, "in part because of the suspicions McNally's actions raised." Naqi later led a report on ESPN's program Outside the Lines, in which she interviewed an Indianapolis-based ex-referee who claimed that NFL officials had been "aware" of McNally for years and had raised concerns about him. This football was a "'K' ball", one of the footballs used for special teams plays.

Naqi's report was immediately contradicted by another ESPN reporter, Adam Schefter.[60] Schefter's report cited sources stating that a "K" ball had gone missing, and that an NFL employee in charge of collecting game footballs for charity had handed the unmarked ball to McNally. Those sources also claimed that that NFL employee was fired after the game, as he had been taking footballs intended for charity and selling them at a profit "over a period of time".[61]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflategate

it has all been discussed to death so I will just post wiki


I see your conspiracy and raise you:

From cssne.com:

Kelly Naqi is the spouse of Hussain Naqi, a former league office employee from 1998 to 2002 who has kept up his strong Park Avenue ties through his present job as an executive for the Jacksonville Jaguars.

Prior to working in the NFL offices, Hussain Naqi was as a paralegal for Covington & Burling, a Washington, D.C.-based law firm that has represented the NFL in different matters over the years, including the 2010 lawsuit brought by suspended Saints players in the wake of Bountygate suspensions. Former NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue is a partner at the firm.

More recently, Hussain Naqi worked for the New Meadowlands Stadium Company in East Rutherford, N.J. There, he served as Vice President of Business Planning and General Counsel at MetLife Stadium, the home of the Jets and Giants. Naqi would have worked closely with the league office on all the logistics for Super Bowl 48. The man in charge of “running” the Super Bowl for the NFL is its Vice President of Game Operations. He would speak to Naqi a lot. His name is Mike Kensil.

Just because Kelly Naqi’s spouse worked for and with the NFL for much of his career shouldn’t preclude her from reporting on the league.

But in a story this explosive, the lines of battle between the NFL and one of its member franchises are clearly drawn. It’s the NFL vs. The New England Patriots.

An investigative report from someone whose spouse has been closely aligned with the NFL for much of his professional life is going to raise suspicions that the league just keeps dropping nuggets and undermining the integrity of the process.

It’s Kelly Naqi’s job to ask knowledgeable sources for information about the Deflategate investigation. Her integrity isn’t in question.

It’s the integrity of the respondents -- and from whom they draw their paycheck -- that’s the bigger concern.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 08:03 PM

The NFL is not a regulator. but they are as agreed to by contract.

And the players belong to a union. who agreed in same contract to cooperate with investigations and not stonewall.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 08:06 PM

Originally Posted By TB 12
Originally Posted By edAudit
On February 17, 2015, ESPN reporter Kelly Naqi reported that a Patriots ball attendant, Jim McNally, had tried "to introduce an unauthorized football"—lacking the markings found on approved footballs—into the game during the first half.[59] That initial report did not indicate why or exactly when this happened, but did state that Kensil went to the officials' locker room at halftime to inspect the game balls, "in part because of the suspicions McNally's actions raised." Naqi later led a report on ESPN's program Outside the Lines, in which she interviewed an Indianapolis-based ex-referee who claimed that NFL officials had been "aware" of McNally for years and had raised concerns about him. This football was a "'K' ball", one of the footballs used for special teams plays.

Naqi's report was immediately contradicted by another ESPN reporter, Adam Schefter.[60] Schefter's report cited sources stating that a "K" ball had gone missing, and that an NFL employee in charge of collecting game footballs for charity had handed the unmarked ball to McNally. Those sources also claimed that that NFL employee was fired after the game, as he had been taking footballs intended for charity and selling them at a profit "over a period of time".[61]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflategate

it has all been discussed to death so I will just post wiki


I see your conspiracy and raise you:

From cssne.com:

Kelly Naqi is the spouse of Hussain Naqi, a former league office employee from 1998 to 2002 who has kept up his strong Park Avenue ties through his present job as an executive for the Jacksonville Jaguars.

Prior to working in the NFL offices, Hussain Naqi was as a paralegal for Covington & Burling, a Washington, D.C.-based law firm that has represented the NFL in different matters over the years, including the 2010 lawsuit brought by suspended Saints players in the wake of Bountygate suspensions. Former NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue is a partner at the firm.

More recently, Hussain Naqi worked for the New Meadowlands Stadium Company in East Rutherford, N.J. There, he served as Vice President of Business Planning and General Counsel at MetLife Stadium, the home of the Jets and Giants. Naqi would have worked closely with the league office on all the logistics for Super Bowl 48. The man in charge of “running” the Super Bowl for the NFL is its Vice President of Game Operations. He would speak to Naqi a lot. His name is Mike Kensil.

Just because Kelly Naqi’s spouse worked for and with the NFL for much of his career shouldn’t preclude her from reporting on the league.

But in a story this explosive, the lines of battle between the NFL and one of its member franchises are clearly drawn. It’s the NFL vs. The New England Patriots.

An investigative report from someone whose spouse has been closely aligned with the NFL for much of his professional life is going to raise suspicions that the league just keeps dropping nuggets and undermining the integrity of the process.

It’s Kelly Naqi’s job to ask knowledgeable sources for information about the Deflategate investigation. Her integrity isn’t in question.

It’s the integrity of the respondents -- and from whom they draw their paycheck -- that’s the bigger concern.


Now we are questioning the integrity of the reporter because the spouse worked for the NFL 13 years prior to this mess and not Brady?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 08:07 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By edAudit
It is not just about one game (if it did or did not we will never know it could have resulted in a turnover on first possession) but it did effect the previous game (small margin victory in poor weather for gripping the ball) and as this has been going on all season...

With proper inflation during the ravens game they may not have even been there playing the colts and it would be a issue for next year.
Where on earth is there any shred of evidence that the balls were under inflated for the Ravens game?


The coach of the ravens broth this to the attention of the colts as per the latest whine by the players assoc.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 08:27 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By edAudit
It is not just about one game (if it did or did not we will never know it could have resulted in a turnover on first possession) but it did effect the previous game (small margin victory in poor weather for gripping the ball) and as this has been going on all season...

With proper inflation during the ravens game they may not have even been there playing the colts and it would be a issue for next year.
Where on earth is there any shred of evidence that the balls were under inflated for the Ravens game?


The coach of the ravens broth this to the attention of the colts as per the latest whine by the players assoc.


Or did they....

snip from:http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2015/08/05/ravens-deny-tipping-colts-off-on-deflated-footballs-there-was-no-conversation-regarding-footballs/


Ravens deny tipping off Colts on Patriots’ deflation: ‘There was no conversation regarding footballs’

From the Ravens:

Prior to the AFC Championship game, no one from the Ravens talked to the Colts about deflated footballs. We knew nothing of deflated footballs. John Harbaugh has been consistent in his answers to reporters about this since he was first asked on NBC-TV at the Super Bowl.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 08:33 PM

guess again a copy of an email

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/emai...alls/ar-BBlpqu9
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 08:38 PM

Someone is lying. My post above is from the Ravens.

Ban the Ravens!
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 08:39 PM

Someone is lying.

Most likely Brady
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 08:49 PM

Yes. Based on the conclusive evidence. :sarcasm:

KILL HIM
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 09:01 PM

It is clearly in the wells report
Posted By: DD Regs

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/05/15 09:53 PM

As seasoned security officer used to say, to stop unwanted behavior "You need to nip it, nip it, nip it!"
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/06/15 01:53 AM

I've grown weary of this. Ed, for an auditor, you sure don't want to see any evidence except what suits your conclusions. Sort of like a certain commissioner we all know and love. Regardless of whatever you and Shemp have to say, the Patriots and Tom Brady ARE the reigning Super Bowl Champions and I can't wait for them to do it again this year. I'm out of here.
Posted By: Sound Tactic

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/06/15 08:59 AM

Quote:
I've grown weary of this. Ed, for an auditor, you sure don't want to see any evidence except what suits your conclusions.


mirror mirror on the wall
Posted By: Sound Tactic

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/06/15 09:00 AM

Originally Posted By DD Regs
As seasoned security officer used to say, to stop unwanted behavior "You need to nip it, nip it, nip it!"


I thought he was practically a police officer.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/06/15 10:23 AM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
I've grown weary of this. Ed, for an auditor, you sure don't want to see any evidence except what suits your conclusions. Sort of like a certain commissioner we all know and love. Regardless of whatever you and Shemp have and I can't wait for them to do it again this year. I'm out of here.


For a compliance officer you sure ignore obvious signs of maleficence. I would love to see some evidence from the Brady camp but attacks on the integrity of the investigators and non-cooperating with the investigation is not evidence. I would rather be the team that came in second or third that had integrity than the team that cheated their way to the Super bowl.

"to say, the Patriots and Tom Brady ARE the reigning Super Bowl Champions" As to the claim about how many Tour De France did Armstrong win? (and there was less evidence of him cheating along the way)
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/06/15 10:36 AM

more "evidence" provided by the Players association

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/tom-bradys-reaction-being-told-160000166.html
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/06/15 02:05 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
I've grown weary of this. Ed, for an auditor, you sure don't want to see any evidence except what suits your conclusions. Sort of like a certain commissioner we all know and love. Regardless of whatever you and Shemp have and I can't wait for them to do it again this year. I'm out of here.


For a compliance officer you sure ignore obvious signs of maleficence. I would love to see some evidence from the Brady camp but attacks on the integrity of the investigators and non-cooperating with the investigation is not evidence. I would rather be the team that came in second or third that had integrity than the team that cheated their way to the Super bowl.

"to say, the Patriots and Tom Brady ARE the reigning Super Bowl Champions" As to the claim about how many Tour De France did Armstrong win? (and there was less evidence of him cheating along the way)


How do you prove a negative. He has denied any wrongdoing and the NFL has provided NOTHING to prove he did order code red. You can infer all you want but absent anything of substance, you have no argument.

The ineptitude of this entire investigation is stunning. The Wells report was edited before it was published, league executives violated NFL rooms by being present in the Officials locker room at halftime of the Colts game, etc. etc.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/06/15 02:18 PM

“The interpretation has always been that no one should enter the game officials locker room unless on official business,” McCarthy said. “League, club, and security people enter the officials locker rooms at every game to assist them with various functions. It is standard procedure. If the officials have an issue with anyone entering their locker room inappropriately, they would report it to security people at the site or to the head of officiating.

“This isn’t anything new or different. Various people with official game day functions enter the room. For example, your SNF crew goes into officials’ locker room for the standard 90-minute meeting before the game. The meeting includes someone from the broadcasting crew, the officials, officiating observer, the home and away PR reps, green hat, orange sleeves. This happens at every NFL game.”


http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-engla...als-locker-room
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/06/15 02:24 PM

No one was asking to prove a negative but when you have a conversation with someone about text messages: not answer questions asked and have a flunky destroy your phone on the same day it make you appear to be guilty. Unless you are a Pats fan and that is business as usual.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/06/15 02:26 PM

OJ was innocent and had no knowledge of who else could have done it and his late ex-wife and Ron Goldman are still alive by the same standard.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/06/15 02:28 PM

Yes- OJ is a great analogy.

And with that, I am out!

:drops mic and heads over to Toms house to wash and detail his Audi:
Posted By: TMatt87

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/06/15 02:29 PM

If we are relating this whole debacle to compliance/audit, I think we can all agree that a SAR would be in order as there have been suspicious activities. However, if this was tried in a court of law instead of the court of public opinion, the case would be dismissed as there isn't sufficient evidence linking Brady to any wrong doing. That isn't to say I don't think he's guilty, but there isn't any concrete evidence.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/06/15 02:36 PM

As for no prescient for discipline for not non-cooperation

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2010/12/29/brett-favre-fined-nfl-cooperating-investigation/
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/06/15 02:45 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
As for no prescient for discipline for not non-cooperation

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2010/12/29/brett-favre-fined-nfl-cooperating-investigation/


:picks up mic:

I assume you mean precedent?

I never argued there no precedent for non cooperation. I argued there was no precedent for a 4 game suspension for non cooperation.

:drops mic (for real this time):
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/06/15 03:28 PM

darn spellcheck
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/10/15 03:57 PM

hey, it's a new season...which means a new chance for all NFL teams to "bend the rules" and see what they can get away with...remember, it's only cheating if the NFL catches and fines you, otherwise, it is just "misunderstanding of the rules"...
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/10/15 03:58 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
darn spellcheck


did you mean "spellicheck?"
Posted By: noelekal

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/10/15 04:24 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
hey, it's a new season...which means a new chance for all NFL teams to "bend the rules" and see what they can get away with...remember, it's only cheating if the NFL catches and fines you, otherwise, it is just "misunderstanding of the rules"...


We could rename the Superbowl, the Misconstruction Bowl with the winner crowned as the team who was better able to cultivate the impression of mere misunderstanding all season rather than to be seen to manipulate and to exploit.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/10/15 04:51 PM

since the NFL preseason has started a good lesion for potential S/B teams

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1708017-how-to-get-away-with-cheating-in-todays-nfl
Posted By: Hobbes

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/10/15 06:02 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
since the NFL preseason has started a good lesion for potential S/B teams

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1708017-how-to-get-away-with-cheating-in-todays-nfl


I think you meant "lesson", but lesion is funnier and probably more appropriate.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/11/15 10:23 AM

http://pagesix.com/2015/08/11/ex-affleck...6954.1438089926
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/17/15 05:35 PM

http://www.netzero-news.net/news/read/ar...ter_title_fo-ap


GENEVA (AP) — Olympic champion Asli Cakir Alptekin has agreed to give up her 1,500-meter title and serve an 8-year ban for blood doping, dealing another blow to track and field.

They came up with a test for blood doping?
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/17/15 05:48 PM

yep, been in place a number of years, but can be beat (see lance Armstrong)...has to do with levels of hemoglobin, so not fool proof
Posted By: Peepers

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/17/15 06:18 PM

oy, Lance, to me he has to be one of the bigger diappointments when it comes to cheating

none of it is good but his series of lies, denials and throwing others under the bus was rediculous
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/17/15 06:23 PM

Originally Posted By Peepers
oy, Lance, to me he has to be one of the bigger diappointments when it comes to cheating

none of it is good but his series of lies, denials and throwing others under the bus was rediculoushas been an inspiration to cheaters in many sports
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/17/15 06:48 PM

Peepers - if you were making $30-40mm per year, and your gravy train was being threatened by exposing your cheating, you'd probably do the same thing to keep the gravy train running...most people in that boat would...

I watched "Dodgeball - an Underdog Story" the other night, the scene toward the end where Lance Armstrong give Vince Vaughn's character a pep talk was edited from the movie - poof - like it never happened.
Posted By: Peepers

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/17/15 07:12 PM

good, he's a dirt bag
Posted By: Peepers

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/17/15 07:52 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
Peepers - if you were making $30-40mm per year, and your gravy train was being threatened by exposing your cheating, you'd probably do the same thing to keep the gravy train running...most people in that boat would...


dirt bags would
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/18/15 12:37 PM

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-spo...game/ar-BBlPIuL

Little League International officials had to intervene after allegations arose that a team threw one of its games at the Little League Softball World Series in Portland, Ore. on Monday.

South Snohomish Little League of Sonohomish, Wash. is accused of throwing its game against Southeast representative Rowan Little League of Salisbury, N.C. A great case can be made against Snohomish, too. The West region representative was no-hit in an 8-0 loss. Reports say they played all their bench players and instructed them to bunt the entire game.
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/18/15 02:44 PM

I didn't know there was little league softball, much less a world series.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/18/15 03:02 PM

yes they have one, the difference is Pony kegs vs. full size and 8oz bottles vs. 16
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/20/15 04:02 PM

a liar, a cheat, and a murderer walk into a bar - yep, the Patriots are in town to play the Saints...
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/20/15 05:08 PM

deflategate vs. Bountygate?
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/20/15 05:50 PM

versus Bensongate (Tom Benson is being sued by his daughter and grandkids for control of the team)
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/20/15 06:00 PM

BuggingGate?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/25521...ing-locker-room
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/20/15 06:07 PM

Wipewater!
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/21/15 03:16 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit

We've reached the point where anything anyone says that even remotely alludes to an allegation that the Patriots have done something is automatically taken as a guilty conviction for the Patriots by a segment of society. The heck with facts or proof - just the fact that Brady, Belichick, and the Patriots are in Peyton's head (no wonder it's so big) means they must be guilty.
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/21/15 03:19 PM

Where there's smoke, ......
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More Cheaters (really not the Patriots this time) - 08/21/15 03:25 PM

If you were to read the article it goes on to say

"In all likelihood, there's no basis for fact in the locker room speculation. No evidence has surfaced to suggest the Patriots were using bugs to gain inside information, and Dungy didn't provide any additional details about Manning's conversations with former Patriots."

So it should be clear that the Pats did not bug the locker room they simply bugged the hallway and sent some former players to mess with manning's head. That Belichik is one crafty guy laugh
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 08/24/15 12:24 PM

Ed, I did read the article. But I know many won't get past the headline and first paragraph before having convicted the Patriots in their minds. Even you alluded to as much in your initial post of this article questioning whether this should be called "BuggingGate". Face it, you just like stirring the pot. Where's that pot-stirring emoji?
Posted By: noelekal

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 08/24/15 01:27 PM

I never could figure out if it was worst to "stir the pot" or "rise to the bait."
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 08/24/15 01:55 PM

Originally Posted By noelekal
I never could figure out if it was worst to "stir the pot" or "rise to the bait."
Touche.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 08/25/15 01:46 PM

people no longer take the time to read articles, they scan headlines and feel that is all they need to know...be it sports, business, politics, whatever...and the media has learned this and creates sensational headlines that if you took the time to read the story, it seldom matches the sensational headline...
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 08/25/15 02:11 PM

So I do not need to read the story just scan the headlines. Thanks Happy that will be a big timesaver.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 08/25/15 02:27 PM

yes, please ignore the stories, just read the headlines, some notable ones lately:

FBI Says It Will Charge Hillary in Email Scandal - when article simply says they are investigating
Sheriff Says Jenner Guilty of Manslaughter - when article says investigation is recommending the DA pursue charges
NYC Mayor Allows Muslims to Infiltrate NYPD - when article actually says he is encouraging people of all faiths to apply
NFL Says Brady Complicit in Inflation Scandal - wait, the article actually says that, too
Posted By: Hobbes

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/03/15 02:30 PM

and now it's over (?)

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/9/3/880...ell-deflategate
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/03/15 02:37 PM

Who knows? Does Goodall wish to be dragged into it again with an appeal? and most likely lose.

Seems like a waste of money to me, not to mention the tax dollars spent to finance the court.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/03/15 02:46 PM

Sweet vindication! NFL screwed this up badly. Wonder if Goodell loses his job over this?
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/03/15 02:53 PM

well, 26 wasted BOL pages...all for nothing! Why would Goodell lose his job? not the first time his decision has been overturned on appeal, won't be the last.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/03/15 02:53 PM

Wonder if Goodell loses his job over this?

One can only hope.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/03/15 02:56 PM

well, at least they can now be one big happy family...here is a the first team photo showing the happy celebration...

http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/4700000/The-Brady-Bunch-the-brady-bunch-4751725-600-359.jpg
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/03/15 03:27 PM

The clowns, aka NFL management, look like fools.
Posted By: thomasj

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/03/15 03:48 PM

This just in..... Goodell suspended for first four games of the season by newly appointed acting commissioner James Harrison.
Posted By: Hobbes

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/03/15 03:52 PM

Originally Posted By TB 12
The clowns, aka NFL management, look like fools.


Hey, don't disparage my team by comparing them to NFL management!

Everyone knows the clowns wear Brown and Orange and play in Cleveland.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/03/15 04:13 PM

Does this mean that the locker room guy get rehired and back pay?

PS; the Jets have been the leagues clowns but this year they can be outdone by DC.
Posted By: Wolfy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/03/15 06:00 PM

So did this federal judge just set a national precedent that no private company can discipline an employee with out it going to court?
Posted By: MB Guy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/03/15 06:04 PM

Still doesn't change the shady behavior of Brady.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/03/15 06:32 PM

just read an article that said the judge through it out because the NFL did not have a rule specifying punishment for infractions of this nature and that the punishment was random.

certainly does not point to vindication and I guess it leaves open the door to other types of punishment once they create a rule. Wonder if Goodell will let it die or try to save face.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/03/15 06:47 PM

no he will just get a team of writers to list any possible infraction and a few impossible one.

Michael Vick should have been paid while in jail for the dog fighting as he was not informed that jail for dog would result in lack of pay.
Posted By: Blade Scrapper

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/03/15 07:00 PM

I never really cared one way or the other, but it's always great fun watching Patriot's fans get their panties in a bunch over any criticism of Brady/Bellichek/Patriots as if they were burning a US flag. (hint: "Patriots" is just a name, not a designation. They're not really patriots)
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/03/15 07:24 PM

The infraction he was referring to was failing to cooperate with the investigation, not for deflating footballs, ordering footballs be deflated, explicitly knowing footballs were being deflated, nor being generally aware that footballs were being deflated.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/03/15 07:28 PM

The infraction he was referring to was failing to cooperate with the investigation,

Farve received a fine $50,000 for this so it should have been known that there was some penalty for it.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/03/15 07:38 PM

regardless of what the infraction was...it is hardly vindication. vindication would be 'we have found that Mr. Brady is not guilty." This was not a hearing on his guilt or innocence, simply on the punishment. further, the judge ordered both parties to arbitration to resolve.

so, 27 pages down, another 27 to go as this moves on...
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/03/15 07:41 PM

so it is not over?

Busy reading other bank related nonsense today.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/03/15 08:00 PM

The NFL will appeal. Brady will have a couple more rings before this circus is over.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/03/15 08:09 PM

Originally Posted By TB 12
The NFL will appeal. Brady will have a couple more rings before this circus is over.


Are you sure?

I have it under good authority that DC has a lock on the SB this year. < where are those smileys? smiley>
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/03/15 08:23 PM

DC meaning the Redskins?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/03/15 08:26 PM

That is not a PC thing to say and Washington would be Seattle (who actually has a chance).

What are we left with?
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/03/15 08:36 PM

only in America can a government condemn the use of the words "Redskin" as offensive and cancel a trademark, while using Tomahawk missiles, Apache helicopters, Blackhawk helicopters, much less divisions nicknamed Indian head, Thundering Herd, Desert Bull, Iriquois, etc...
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/03/15 09:24 PM

As Rush talked about today, this all goes back to the Tuck rule. The Patriots are now serial cheaters, and have not suffered much for it.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/04/15 11:38 AM

Ok. That makes a lot of sense.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/04/15 02:39 PM

well, if Rush said it, we all must believe...
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/04/15 03:30 PM

Rush may want to revisit that play and game. The refs overturned the call on the field, and the Pats still had to score twice to win.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/04/15 03:38 PM

Originally Posted By Pale Rider
As Rush talked about today, this all goes back to the Tuck rule. The Patriots are now serial cheaters, and have not suffered much for it.
As I told you on FB, you've got to be kidding about the Tuck rule being cheating, right? The official correctly applied the rule that was in effect at that time. Was it a stupid rule? Maybe. Did the Patriots benefit from said stupid rule? Absolutely. But how is that cheating? So we have Spygate, which the Patriots admitted, paid the penalty (steepest in NFL history at that time, by the way) and stopped the practice (of filming in unapproved locations). And now we have some unsubstantiated allegations that there may have been a scheme that some people may or may not have been aware of that resulting in possibly (or possibly not) air being released from footballs. Or maybe it's just science. Who knows? So where is the "serial" aspect of cheating?
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/04/15 03:51 PM

Facts are irrelevant Jim.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/04/15 03:55 PM

Originally Posted By TB 12
Facts are irrelevant Jim.


to all parties involved in this discussion, pro and con fans of the Patriots...those who are fans excuse the issue as much as those who aren't fans hype the issues
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/04/15 04:00 PM

I was under the impression that they lost the first tuck rule against the jets.

and yes it is/was a stupid rule


and also they are serial cheaters just ask the guy from the Boston globe.

yesterday they did not find Brady innocent they just found the NFL and Goodall pathetic but we appear to agree on that
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/04/15 04:11 PM

Yesterday's ruling aside, there is no evidence linking Brady to deflating footballs. Period. End of story.

I get that anyone that cares is on one side or the other and there is no turning back the clock. The haters think Brady is a cheat, the Patriot toties are ready to canonize him.

Ed-what "guy" from the Globe are you talking about?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/04/15 04:14 PM

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2015/05/boston_globe_columnist_to_patriots_fans_tom_brady.html
Posted By: DD Regs

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/04/15 04:16 PM

Originally Posted By TB 12


Ed-what "guy" from the Globe are you talking about?





It doesn't matter, he is now in protective custody. laugh
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/04/15 04:17 PM

Just hoping that they save their cheats for a decent team and not waste a good cheat on the Jets. laugh
Posted By: DoS

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/04/15 05:37 PM

Originally Posted By DD Regs
Originally Posted By TB 12


Ed-what "guy" from the Globe are you talking about?





It doesn't matter, he is now in protective custody. laugh


because he killed the lions? laugh
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/04/15 06:55 PM

Just because Dan Shaughnessy has an Irish name and reports for the Boston Globe does not make him any more a Patriots supporter than Ed or Shemp. Dan has long had bad things to say about the Patriots. But you have to also remember he was saying those things in the immediate aftermath of the release of the Wells Report. That report, at the time, was thought by many to be an independent review. We've now found out from the released appeal transcript and from Judge Berman's ruling that the Wells Report was anything but independent.

This report from Dan also assigns "serial" status to the fact that there were two supposed offenses in eight years, one of which we continue to learn more and more (at least for those willing to look at the science) was as likely not to have occurred as did. That seems a stretch, but OK. I still say, if you're going to assign the label of serial cheaters to the Patriots, you better assign that same label to 31 other NFL teams too. See www.yourteamcheats.com for validation.

It's true - Judge Berman's ruling did not find Tom Brady innocent. But if you read the details of the line of questions he had for the NFL during the hearing, you can see that he had little respect for the supposed "facts" that led to the suspension in the first place. And at the end of the day, he didn't declare Brady innocent because he had no standing to do so. This case wasn't about whether Brady was guilty or innocent. It was about whether he was treated fairly by the league and the fact is he was not treated fairly. I would be willing to wager that if Berman had standing to be able to declare guilt or innocence for Brady, he would have no question saying from a legal perspective of "preponderance of evidence" that Brady was innocent. But it is true that this is just speculation on my part. But if others can speculate that he's guilty, I can certainly speculate that he's innocent.

Here's some facts I can definitely get behind: The 2015 NFL season kicks off in 6 days at Gillette Stadium. Tom Brady will be under center for the Patriots. The Super Bowl LXIX World Champions Banner will be unfurled in Gillette Stadium just before kickoff. And I can hardly wait!
Posted By: MB Guy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/04/15 07:29 PM

Quote:
I would be willing to wager that if Berman had standing to be able to declare guilt or innocence for Brady, he would have no question saying from a legal perspective of "preponderance of evidence" that Brady was innocent.


I'd be willing to take that bet.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/04/15 07:30 PM

See www.yourteamcheats.com for validation

I still have not been able to determine the author of this site yet alone the validity of it. (which I find strange in itself)

The wells report may or may not have been independent but it did not need to be as per the CBA.

Based upon the judges line of questioning during the process one could as well have questions about the independence of the judge.

I would be willing to wager that if Berman had standing to be able to declare guilt or innocence for Brady, he would have no question saying from a legal perspective of "preponderance of evidence" that Brady was innocent. I would differ with this statement and if he did it would be a vast overstatement of the task he was assigned to.

The main reason for his dismissal was that the Brady team could not question the legal counsel NFL. Since when would it be a legal standard to have the ability to question the opponents legal counsel.

Personally I believe that this could have been avoided had the NFL had in place a minimum standard for the integrity of the balls that was not based upon the wants of a few QBs and had a simple Ball Gauge issued to the field officials and a piece of paper with a pen. but sadly this has not been addressed for the new season. so since no one was warned about the possibility of a suspension (including the locker room staff) put whatever you like in the balls and it would be ok.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/04/15 08:14 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
I still have not been able to determine the author of this site yet alone the validity of it. (which I find strange in itself)
Have you found any of the items linked to any of the teams to be incorrect? If so, there is a process on the site to submit errors - have you done so, and if so, has that information been addressed? Otherwise, does it matter who the author of the site is?
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/04/15 08:17 PM

And now, sadly, not having learned my lesson previously, I truly am going to leave this thread to the haters and baiters. I'll be basking in the knowledge that after decades as the Patsies, my team now gives me hope for another Super Bowl championship every year.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/04/15 08:19 PM

Just because most are against cheating in football does not make use haters or baiters.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/04/15 08:39 PM

strangely enough when I click on "Email The Commish" I get a blank google screen. since that could reflect negatively on the site I will ignore it.
Posted By: MB Guy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/08/15 07:13 PM

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...al-play-sheets/

I think this thread needs the soundtrack of the Benny Hill theme playing in the background.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/08/15 07:26 PM

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...ki-and-mcnally/

now this is odd.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/08/15 07:28 PM

http://www.centriotimes.com/2015/09/new-...edia-party.html

even stranger
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/08/15 07:29 PM

It's all a conspiracy to keep the Lions out of the Super bowl.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/08/15 07:36 PM

It appears to be nothing more than an evil ploy to keep the Jets out of the playoffs. <sarcasm>
Posted By: DoS

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/08/15 08:02 PM

Originally Posted By Pale Rider
It's all a conspiracy to keep the Lions out of the Super bowl.


there doesn't need to be a conspiracy to keep the lions out of the Super Bowl ... just sayin' wink
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/08/15 08:57 PM

please, the lions have been to numerous superbowls...just last year, they were club level at the 45 yard line!
Posted By: GuitarDude

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/08/15 10:52 PM

And the obligatory old joke:

How do you keep lions out of your yard?

Paint a goal line in front of it.

smirk
Posted By: Wolfy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/09/15 01:27 PM

Come on you know it is not PC to talk about the Lions getting killed.... again ^_-
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/09/15 04:41 PM

Do they have a Cecil on the team?
Posted By: #ONENANA

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/09/15 04:47 PM

GO COWBOYS!!!!!!
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/09/15 05:42 PM

Originally Posted By #ONENANA
GO draft a quarterback, COWBOYS!!!!!!


fixed
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/09/15 05:58 PM

Originally Posted By #ONENANA
GO COWBOYS!!!!!!


where do you wish them to go Cleveland?
Posted By: #ONENANA

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/09/15 06:13 PM

I'm with you on the quarterback Happy, however at our house we say "He's our quarterback and we support him." This is not said with very much enthusiasm though.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/09/15 06:33 PM

don't worry nana...with that nice stadium they have, the nicest in the NFL, you can be content watching them lose in comfort and style!
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/11/15 10:15 AM

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/toml...auiC?li=AAa0dzB
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/11/15 11:43 AM

http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newe...tructure-issue/
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/11/15 11:44 AM

Tomlin may want to focus on a new kicker and a receiver that doesn't step out of bounds when wide open in the end zone.

#moveon
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/11/15 12:09 PM

Or find someone who can cover Gronk

#somthingsneverchange
Posted By: DD Regs

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/11/15 12:39 PM

STEELERS MAY WANT TO FIND A DEFENSE cry
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/11/15 12:42 PM

They had a very good defense, Blame the headsets laugh
Posted By: DD Regs

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/11/15 02:01 PM

I think it has more to do with what is between the ear pieces of the steelers headsets smirk
Posted By: MB Guy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/11/15 02:59 PM

Horrible playing by the Steeler defense, as well as offensive play calling. Maybe after the 23rd run up the middle that didn't work, you should try throwing the ball.
Posted By: BowlingQueen

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/11/15 03:23 PM

Originally Posted By MB Guy
Horrible playing by the Steeler defense, as well as offensive play calling. Maybe after the 23rd run up the middle that didn't work, you should try throwing the ball.


Didn't they do that and resulted in an interception? I don't know, I'm just a girl. wink
Posted By: MB Guy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/11/15 03:31 PM

Late game + down in points = more reckless throwing & interceptions.

Happens A LOT.
Posted By: BowlingQueen

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/11/15 03:38 PM

Originally Posted By DD Regs
I think it has more to do with what is between the ear pieces of the steelers headsets smirk


Then, I'm going with that. ^^^^^^^^ Heh.
Posted By: MB Guy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/11/15 07:43 PM

Anyone see that video on FB where the play clock is reset when Brady raises his hands?

Just curious why that happened.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/11/15 09:03 PM

Well the league is now going to look into what is now referred to as Headsetgate (by the media). Wonder if they are going to hire barney fife ted wells to write a report.
Posted By: DD Regs

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/14/15 01:20 PM

Originally Posted By MB Guy
Anyone see that video on FB where the play clock is reset when Brady raises his hands?

Just curious why that happened.


MB Guy, is there video of that?
Posted By: TMatt87

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/14/15 02:29 PM

Raising the arm with the palm up is the gesture to reset the play clock. This often happens when the play clock starts running when there is a penalty or injury. The gesture is to notify the officials, who make a similar gesture if they think the play clock needs reset.

No conspiracy there. All QBs do the same thing.
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/14/15 02:33 PM

Do y'all see how many times the play clock had to be reset for the Giants last night against the Cowboys with only a couple of minutes to go.

And they still couldn't run the clock out even though they had first and goal with 2 minutes, something like that....
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/14/15 02:42 PM

Originally Posted By DD Regs
Originally Posted By MB Guy
Anyone see that video on FB where the play clock is reset when Brady raises his hands?

Just curious why that happened.


MB Guy, is there video of that?


He has a chip embedded in his arm that controls the game clock.

MUWHAHAHAHAHAHA
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/14/15 04:20 PM

I figured as much TB! Those Patriots are serial cheaters! There is too much of a pattern and practice here! Where there is smoke there is fire!!!
Posted By: #ONENANA

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/14/15 06:04 PM

Well my Cowboys pulled it off at the very end!! Life is good!!
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/22/15 01:53 PM

More cheating in a Patriots game?

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/09/bills-tr...and-deflategate
Posted By: DD Regs

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/22/15 01:56 PM

If you ain't cheat'n you ain't try'n
Posted By: noelekal

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/22/15 02:10 PM

Originally Posted By TB 12
Originally Posted By DD Regs
Originally Posted By MB Guy
Anyone see that video on FB where the play clock is reset when Brady raises his hands?

Just curious why that happened.


MB Guy, is there video of that?


He has a chip embedded in his arm that controls the game clock.

MUWHAHAHAHAHAHA


Does Volkswagen sponsor the Patriots in any way?
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/22/15 02:48 PM

You should write headlines Ed.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/29/15 01:33 PM

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/09/28/patriots-cheat-nfl-week-3/

from CBS Boston

15 Foul Ways The Patriots ‘Cheated’ The NFL In Week 3
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/29/15 02:08 PM

based on the article, it appears their cheating is more far reaching than anyone thought...
Posted By: Wolfy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/29/15 05:11 PM

I always liked the "no far running up the score" complaint from the losing team, or losing team's fans.
You know you could always just give up. ^_-
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/29/15 05:18 PM

While I agree with the no rights to dispute running up the score, I think it may be shortsighted to leave in a player who has been called the greatest QB in history in a blowout. It is not like if things started going the other way they could always bring him back. The risk of injury (legal or cheap shot) is to great but at least they have a bye week.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/29/15 05:21 PM

on second thought since the Pats have the "greatest coach in the history of football" he may know something that I do not such as a possible defect in his defense that could have allowed the Jags to come back.,.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/30/15 07:07 PM

I agree that leaving the greatest QB ever on the field in a blowout is dangerous.

#revengegate
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/30/15 07:25 PM

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/news/nfl...=ansmsnsports11

NFL's 'Deflategate' appeal to be heard in February -court order
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/30/15 07:27 PM

The Super Bowl is scheduled to be played on Feb. 7, raising the possibility that the case could generate headlines just days before the NFL's premier event - particularly if Brady and the Patriots, currently 3-0, are playing for a second consecutive title.

anything to hype the game and Goodall is a hero in the owners minds.
Posted By: MyBrainHurts

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/30/15 07:53 PM

Brady now has 400 touchdowns, or 320 adjusted for inflation.
Posted By: MB Guy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/30/15 07:56 PM

Originally Posted By MyBrainHurts
Brady now has 400 touchdowns, or 320 adjusted for deflation.


Corrected.
Posted By: TMatt87

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/30/15 08:25 PM

Originally Posted By TB 12
I agree that leaving the greatest QB ever on the field in a blowout is dangerous.

#revengegate


I think having Joe Montana in a game at any time would be dangerous, given his age.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/30/15 08:52 PM

Originally Posted By TMatt87
Originally Posted By TB 12
I agree that leaving the greatest QB ever on the field in a blowout is dangerous.

#revengegate


I think having Joe Montana in a game at any time would be dangerous, given his age.


http://www.ibtimes.com/tom-brady-vs-joe-montana-stat-comparison-whos-better-quarterback-1813750
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/30/15 08:58 PM

That would be a difficult call Stickum vs. deflated balls/stealing signals and playbooks...
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/30/15 09:01 PM

http://www.yourepeat.com/watch/?v=u0mOTChM1kM
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/30/15 09:23 PM

you can't compare solely stats from 20 years ago versus today...huge difference in the way the game is played, the athletic ability today versus prior, equipment, etc.
Posted By: TMatt87

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/30/15 09:34 PM

Originally Posted By TB 12
Originally Posted By TMatt87
Originally Posted By TB 12
I agree that leaving the greatest QB ever on the field in a blowout is dangerous.

#revengegate


I think having Joe Montana in a game at any time would be dangerous, given his age.


http://www.ibtimes.com/tom-brady-vs-joe-montana-stat-comparison-whos-better-quarterback-1813750


I actually like Brady and Gronk (not really a fan of Belichek or the Pats as a whole). I just like needling people on both sides of this ridiculous argument. And it's hard to compare players from different generations anyways.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 10/06/15 01:30 PM

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/25761...el-in-same-week

DraftKings Employee Leaked Fantasy Info, Won $350K from FanDuel in Same Week

People will cheat at anything.
Posted By: MyBrainHurts

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 10/06/15 02:04 PM

The players don't need to cheat when the refs are either blind or don't know the rules. Either way, Detroit was cheated yesterday.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 10/06/15 03:19 PM

Inexplicable. There was one player, and you could see the ref staring at him as he pushed the ball out of bounds.

I think the refs are in Seattle's pocket.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 10/06/15 03:23 PM

assuming you are referencing the goal line stripping of the ball...from what I heard the "experts" say, if they intentionally propel the ball out of bounds it goes to the other team at the spot of the foul. one can only assume they officials decided that the action of knocking the ball out of his hands is what propelled the ball out of the end zone, hence the touchback, and not that he then retouched the ball after the strip to knock it out.

but that is just my guess I don't care for either team one way or the other, so it doesn't matter to me. however, if we can some way tie this to cheating by the Patriots, i'm okay with that as well. smile.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 10/06/15 04:21 PM

I should have included the sarcasm emoticon...

It is a judgment call by the ref, but IMHO the player intentionally pushed it out the back of the end zone which is not allowed.
Posted By: noelekal

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 10/06/15 04:31 PM

Was pro ball always this bad?
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 10/06/15 05:50 PM

TB - I think our posts crossed, mine was not in response to yours, just continuing the theme that we should be able to tie this back to NE in some way - much like 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon, but for football...

Noel - as players have gotten bigger, stronger, faster, salary caps have been put in, threats of lawsuits over injuries, wanting to protect key players (you can't hit a QB or player catching the ball above the shoulders, but you can a running back or receiver after the ball is caught), parity in the league, an extra 15 seconds on the clock between plays, 27 replays for every play from 16 different angles...yeah, football is bad but now it can be seen and dissected much more, leading to much more critique of every decision....so much so that every channel now airing games has hired a former official to give "rules interpretations" after just about every call.

yawn...
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 10/06/15 05:53 PM

you can't hit a QB or player catching the ball above the shoulders

but it is ok to kick him in the head?
Posted By: Wolfy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 10/06/15 07:10 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
you can't hit a QB or player catching the ball above the shoulders

but it is ok to kick him in the head?


Next they need to add all these safety rules to MMA!! ^_^
Posted By: noelekal

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 10/06/15 08:52 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
you can't hit a QB or player catching the ball above the shoulders

but it is ok to kick him in the head?



Is this sorta like:

You can't hit a loan officer who is allowing flood insurance to lapse

but it is ok to kick him in the head?

Would compliance be penalized for the above?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 10/06/15 09:03 PM

You will need to send a e-mail to HR and wait for a reply. Fortunately the kicking employee will be retired for several years after you get a reply and the loan officer, well... would you be able to tell the difference? laugh
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 11/19/15 02:46 PM

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/tom-...=ansmsnsports11


For Beach and TB
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/28/15 12:42 PM

Peyton Manning???
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/28/15 02:20 PM

Dale Guyer of the Guyer Institute said in a statement that Sly had a "brief three-month internship” there in 2013, “during which time Peyton was not even being treated or present in the office,” Guyer said. "I think it is obvious that Mr. Sly has fabricated this whole thing for reasons I cannot fathom.”

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/furious-pey...ory?id=35965740

Waiting on the retraction and possible lawsuit.
Posted By: DD Regs

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/28/15 02:47 PM

ESPN this morning was stating that he had retracted
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/28/15 02:52 PM

One would have thought that a newspaper would have checked to see if the person telling the story even worked at the clinic when this mess was supposed to have happened.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/28/15 02:56 PM

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/12/dark-side-secrets-sports-dopers-151227133355144.html

real trash reporting
Posted By: DD Regs

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/28/15 03:20 PM

Isn't this Al Gores paper
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/28/15 04:58 PM

It will be interesting to see how this pans out.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/29/15 01:07 PM

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/al-j...0IJH?li=BBnb7Kz

they can bash the source but no retraction???
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/29/15 01:49 PM

There is some interesting conflicts that need to be sorted out. I heard the phone call this morning where the lab verified the guys employment which matches the 2011 timeframe.

Manning should be afforded the same courtesy as other high profile NFL players have been when accused of something-don't rush to judgment. ESPN and the talking heads have circled the wagons around the Papa John pitchman.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/29/15 01:53 PM

I have read a few articles and from them it appears that cleared or not this will impact his earnings after football (most likely next year).
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/29/15 02:18 PM

I think being at the end of his career will impact his earnings as well.

He will probably end up in the booth somewhere.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/29/15 02:30 PM

There have been some talk about coaching in NY from the talking heads (no one of any importance)
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/29/15 02:34 PM

I assume the Giants... Coughlin needs to go.
Posted By: DD Regs

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/29/15 02:55 PM

I think his wife ordered them and was spiking his OJ. She wants to keep the money running.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/29/15 09:26 PM

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/repo...1JaD?li=BBnb7Kz

"The only allegation in the program from Charlie Sly is that growth hormone was sent repeatedly from Guyer (Institute) to Ashley Manning in Florida,'' Davies said. "We're not making the allegation against Peyton Manning."

So then why is it a story the NFL does not have any regulation against the wife of a player taking legal drugs.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/29/15 09:49 PM

The potential link is there, whether or not it was sent to her for her use or for him remains to be seen. Clemens didn't use it either-it was for his wife... wink wink
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/29/15 09:54 PM

Still not buying it. The potential to sell the paper on website on a fake story is also there.

I am not saying that he did or did not but there needs to be more of a link to ruin a guys career.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/30/15 02:03 PM

I will admit I have not watched the documentary yet I don't think anyone is calling for Peytons head-quite the contrary actually. The wagons have circled around him and the talking heads have dismissed the story.

Only time will tell if there is more to the story.
Posted By: Sherlocked

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/30/15 08:58 PM

Ashley Peyton's confidential health information was leaked. HIPAA violation.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/30/15 09:45 PM

Has it come out what she was being treated for or just that the HGH was allegedly sent to her?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/30/15 09:47 PM

A serious neck injury?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 01/04/16 02:53 PM

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/footba...ticle-1.2484135


The NFL must be strict if they do not let the spouses of players use HGH (if the use is indeed true)
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 01/04/16 03:19 PM

that was one poorly written article...not sure how the clinic's owner being friends with someone convicted in a Ponzi scheme or his son being killed in a police shootout have anything to do with Manning...
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 01/13/16 09:15 PM

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/al-jazeera-america-shut-april-article-1.2495812

Al Jazeera America to shut down by the end of April; staffer calls it a 'mercy killing'
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 01/21/16 12:38 PM

oops...
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 01/25/16 07:32 PM

The broken tablets should boost the Broncos score on the your team cheats website.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 01/25/16 07:37 PM

the tablets are supplied by NFL, no? Don't think it is the home team...
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 01/25/16 07:43 PM

So are you saying that Goodall caused it or was it just the fact that they are Microsoft products and a breakdown at a poor time should have been expected. Then again could a sudden gust of wind could have changed the air pressure inside the tablets causing the outage?
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 01/25/16 07:44 PM

should have gone with Apple...
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 01/25/16 07:49 PM

Microsoft did not immediately respond to ABC News' request for comment. While the costly fail may look like a black eye for Microsoft, the company told The Guardian the issue was "not related to the tablets themselves but rather an issue with the network."

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/reason-microsoft-surface-tablet-fail-nfl-game/story?id=36502282

Peyton Manning should have know about this.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 01/25/16 08:35 PM

Unlike Mike Tomlin of the Steelers, the Pats didn't whine about it.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/01/16 09:08 PM

not NFL but does not deserve its own thread

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-s...ticle-1.2516543

Cyclist Femke Van den Driessche caught with hidden motor inside bike during race
Posted By: Peepers

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/01/16 09:13 PM

first the dirt bag Armstrong now this
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/01/16 09:19 PM

it was an accident, as explained...lets move on...
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/01/16 09:21 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
it was an accident, as explained...lets move on...


Armstrong fell on the needle while training containing the banned substances?
Posted By: Peepers

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/01/16 09:22 PM

maybe the cyclist from this story can go on Oprah too
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/01/16 09:42 PM

That organization should hire Ted Wells to investigate.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/01/16 09:45 PM

I am thinking after the last judges ruling professional sports may have a deflated opinion of Mr. Wells.
Posted By: Sinatra Fan

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/01/16 11:35 PM

And round and round we go . . . smile
Posted By: Peepers

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/02/16 02:42 PM

I haven't paid too close attention to this but if a judge basically threw this out, why do the Patriots still have to forfeit their first round pick?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/02/16 02:54 PM

They threw out the suspension to Brady (as the charges as stated in the wells report were stupid).

The team also agreed to the team portion prior to the judges decision on Brady only.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/02/16 02:55 PM

Not that I am agreeing or disagreeing. Just my opinion that guilty or innocent the NFL acted as the NFL and made a complete mess of it.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/03/16 09:50 PM

it is baaaaaaaaaaaaaak deflate gate that is

NY papers have the NFL winning on appeal based upon the judges questions

NE paper states that Brady will win on appeal no doubt about it.


So far the only independent paper was wining about the cost of $20 million on the case.
Posted By: Peepers

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/03/16 11:44 PM

they should have to forfeit every draft pick this year and next year
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/04/16 06:34 PM

Take it to the Supream Court. Whatever it takes to clear Tom Teriffic.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/04/16 07:06 PM

He will never be cleared in the court of public appearance (or guilty due to the incompetence of the NFL) much like Peyton Manning
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/04/16 07:39 PM

Peyton Manning is guilty in the court of public appearance? I don't know what you have been watching and reading, but he has been given a complete pass. The Manning PR Machine has made sure of that.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/04/16 07:44 PM

After some idiot NY reporter "broke" the Manning story he became guilty (not the early stuff) reports from witnesses of his innocents are on page 35 in small print.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/04/16 07:50 PM

The story has had no traction, so I don't know where you are coming from.
Posted By: DD Regs

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/04/16 07:58 PM

I guess in Peyton's case, it really does pay to Nationwide on your side whistle
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/04/16 07:58 PM

It is a still a big story down here in NY due to one reporter trying to disparage Manning as payback for the Cam Newton stories 9most of which are nothing). I am aware that there are simply no comparison but one reporter wishes to make the differences a racial issue and is beating this dead horse.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/04/16 07:59 PM

If you like we can change Manning in my original post to Aaron Hernandez.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/04/16 09:23 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
It is a still a big story down here in NY due to one reporter trying to disparage Manning as payback for the Cam Newton stories 9most of which are nothing). I am aware that there are simply no comparison but one reporter wishes to make the differences a racial issue and is beating this dead horse.


I don't understand what you are trying to say.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/04/16 09:32 PM

Daily there it was front page news how bad Manning was and how it was shoved under a rug. just because there was negative news about Cam. as I say just an idiot reporter (Cam fan boy)

I was under the impression that it was a national story but it must have been local
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/07/16 01:39 PM

Bad meaning his playing ability or bad because he paid someone off to keep quiet about an alleged assault and sending out a couple of goons to make that guy recant his story about Peyton's alleged HGH use?
Posted By: Peepers

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/07/16 01:48 PM

Bad meaning slang for good, like, that Peyton is one bad dude.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/07/16 02:03 PM

well, after today and Peyton "officially" retires (kind of silly to announce yesterday they are having a press conference today for him to announce he is retiring, since the notice yesterday already said he was retiring, but whatever), guess that just leaves the ongoing deflategate scandal as the biggest thing to worry about for the NFL...possibly they are hoping it goes on long enough so it can get multiple seasons of press, and therefore qualify for a Netflix release of Season 1, Season 2, etc...
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/07/16 02:13 PM

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national...ticle-1.2553492

This "reporter' will not let the story go away.

The roommate who "had disappeared for 20 years" claims to have been in the military until the recent story broke. Fighting in Iraq/Afgan I would think that that may be more important than "clearing" (if clearing was needed) Manning's name if he even knew that it needed clearing.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/07/16 02:14 PM

the "Latest" development in deflategate was so important that neither Brady or Goodall attended.

Anything to sell "News"
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/07/16 02:28 PM

I wouldn't call one reporter clinging to a story as a national slam against Peyton. Quite the opposite. When the HGH story broke, every single talking head on ESPN said " If Peyton said he didn't do it, its good enough for me" Nuff said.
Posted By: Peepers

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/07/16 03:00 PM

well, Manning is believable
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/07/16 03:05 PM

I guess anyone that sells cookies, pizza, Buicks and insurance would be.
Posted By: Peepers

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/07/16 03:25 PM

especially pizza
Posted By: Sinatra Fan

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/07/16 03:39 PM

Better ingredients. Better quarterback. HGH.

(sorry; couldn't resist being snarky)
Posted By: Peepers

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/07/16 03:40 PM

<----------- doesn't even know what snarky is
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/07/16 04:12 PM

I think the difference in believability for Manning vs. Brady is that Manning has not played for any team that has had a history of pushing the envelope in regards to NFL rules. therefore has not come under scrutiny nor has he had the opportunity to choose not to provide testimony in NFL investigations when asked.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/07/16 04:50 PM

I wasn't comparing the 2 directly, just pointing out that Peytons word is good enough.

I would argue that while the Pats have pushed the envelope in the past and paid for those violations (as have many other teams), Brady has had a spotless record.
Posted By: DD Regs

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/07/16 05:49 PM

The Dan Le batard show is talking about Peyton now. They don't seem to think his word is good enough.
Posted By: TMatt87

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/07/16 06:52 PM

If we've learned anything about sports in the last decade or so, we should know that no one is above reproach.
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/07/16 07:39 PM

If you have learned anything since the beginning of recorded history, it is that man has fallen short and missed the mark over and over again.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/10/16 06:16 PM

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/03/10/tom-brady-extension-details-deflategate-suspension/

CBS Boston not NY.


Tom Brady Saves Nearly $2 Million From Potential DeflateGate Suspension With New Contract
Posted By: Peepers

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/10/16 07:13 PM

The Patriots should have to forfeit every title that they've won............plus throw in a couple Bruins championships too
Posted By: Peepers

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/10/16 07:34 PM

maybe some Celtics ones too due to Havlicek's gang ties
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/10/16 08:53 PM

You can have the 2013 Red Sox World Series-it was a fluke.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/10/16 08:57 PM

Broncos are in an interesting spot. Peyton retires and Brock takes the money in Houston.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/10/16 09:04 PM

Now who could not see that happening?

(other than Elway of course)
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/10/16 10:07 PM

apparently his feelings were hurt when they put Peyton back at the helm...with the revolving QB spots in Houston, I give him a year...
Posted By: DD Regs

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/11/16 02:30 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
apparently his feelings were hurt when they put Peyton back at the helm...with the revolving QB spots in Houston, I give him a year...


I with you Happy,

Far as the Bronco's, I would love to see RGIII go there, I think this would be a good fit for him.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/11/16 02:57 PM

I don't think RG3 is a fit anywhere...the NFL is not college, you can't have a QB that wants to tuck and run on every play...defense too big, too fast, he can't take the pounding...and he is just not that good in the NFL...

I heard on the radio today that SF is looking at him, and Capernick is being looked at by Denver...no idea if that is remotely true or great speculation...
Posted By: Peepers

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/11/16 03:03 PM

from a style of play standpoint, those two seem to be really similar

not sure if one is more 'football smart' than the other or one is a better 'team member' than the other though

from what I've seen out of SF, Kaepernick really isn't too 'football smart'
Posted By: DD Regs

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/11/16 03:04 PM

Ah heck, they should resign Tebow laugh
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/11/16 03:15 PM

I have read that 3 teams are looking at Manzial. (party planer position)
Posted By: Peepers

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/11/16 03:25 PM

he's a carpenter too?
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/11/16 03:38 PM

laugh

Only the Betty Ford Clinck should sign Manzell.
Posted By: Need Coffee

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/11/16 07:21 PM

Mark freakin' Sanchez... The Broncos must really not have liked how winning felt.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/11/16 07:32 PM

They should have gone with Manzile
Posted By: Peepers

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/11/16 07:37 PM

Johnny football is thankful for the existence of Ryan Leaf and JaMarcus Russell

Those may be the only two bigger NFL QB busts than Manziel

Nobody could possibly have seen this coming
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/11/16 07:46 PM

He could be striving to be the next Tim Couch
Posted By: Peepers

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/11/16 07:47 PM

He doesn't have it in him to be that good
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/11/16 07:52 PM

Brian Bosworth?
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/11/16 08:05 PM

Denver sold their soul for a Super Bowl win, now it is time to pay the piper. Mark "butt fumble" Sanchez? eesh.
Posted By: MyBrainHurts

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/11/16 08:06 PM

There just aren't enough good QBs to go around. Maybe the NFL needs fewer teams.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/11/16 08:06 PM

Originally Posted By Peepers
Johnny football is thankful for the existence of Ryan Leaf and JaMarcus Russell

Those may be the only two bigger NFL QB busts than Manziel

Nobody could possibly have seen this coming


Ryan Leaf going nuts on that reporter in the loker room is a classic... laugh
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/11/16 08:21 PM

http://nypost.com/2016/03/11/jets-take-step-toward-handing-franchise-to-rg3/

Former Redskins quarterback Robert Griffin III will visit the Jets on Friday, a source confirmed. Griffin, the No. 2 overall pick by Washington in 2012, was once considered one of the best young talents in the game, but a knee injury and ineffective play derailed his career.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/11/16 08:29 PM

The Pats can hoist the "2016 AFC East Champs" banner now.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/18/16 05:23 PM

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/brow...T2Xy?li=BBnb7Kz
Browns owner Jimmy Haslam resisting order to testify in Pilot Flying J case

As usual the comments are better than the article.
Posted By: CB#3

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/25/16 03:53 PM

I see Tom Brady is suspended again.
Posted By: Wolfy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/25/16 04:23 PM

the 4 days are back but stay tuned, same Pat time, same Pat channel.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/25/16 06:09 PM

Same suspension for the same offense - just reinstated based on NFL appeal to 2nd District Court. My guess is that it ends here - he'll serve the suspension and put it behind him. But it won't be forgotten by the NFLPA when the next collective bargaining agreement comes up for negotiation.
Posted By: CB#3

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/25/16 06:51 PM

Goodell offered to cut some of his powers. One catch. Extend the current collective bargaining agreement.
Posted By: DD Regs

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/10/16 12:31 PM

“New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady is coming out with a cookbook. The cookbook teaches you how to make a soufflé that falls then re-inflates at halftime.” -- Conan O'Brien
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/10/16 04:49 PM

http://www.tb12store.com/collections/fea...ant=17174898500

one way to make back 4 game suspension money
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/10/16 04:49 PM

Ed, I ordered one for you. Treasure it always.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/10/16 04:56 PM

Yum Kale.

Thanks.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/10/16 05:08 PM

You're welcome. I had Tom inscribe it: "Ed, thanks for always believing in me. :heart emoticon: TB"
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/10/16 05:19 PM

Was this one included?

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-moms...atitude-2015711
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/10/16 05:35 PM

No no no... I kept that one for my personal collection.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/10/16 05:38 PM

After reading what he eats; if I fed it to my daughter I could be charged with child abuse.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/11/16 01:10 PM

http://www.amazon.com/Alices-Brady-Bunch-Cookbook-Davis/dp/1558533079

seems like a better buy
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/11/16 07:22 PM

Originally Posted By TB 12
You're welcome. I had Tom inscribe it: "Ed, thanks for always believing in me. :heart emoticon: TB"
Now that's funny!
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/23/16 12:33 PM

Brown v. Board of Education, Roe v. Wade, and now Brady v. NFL coming to a Supreme Court nearest you.

P.S. not a commentary on the merits of either side just the insanity of where this is going.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/23/16 01:25 PM

Lets not jump ahead Ed. He is appealing back to the Circuit Court.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/23/16 01:30 PM

I have read a few articles that claim Supreme Court but you are correct. Just wondering what this will cost in tax dollars. If Brady does have the right to bring it (I believe that he does) It is time the NFL (and other sports) to be taken off the anti-trust exemption and let both sides settle it without the taxpayer dollars being spent..
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/23/16 01:39 PM

it is a taxpayer waste of money, but the sad thing is, the NFL rules make Goodell the sole decider...so, you want to make millions in the NFL, you must abide by their rules...so far the NFL has won every case where their ability to be the sole decider was brought to court...maybe Brady thinks he can beat that.

Drew Brees was interviewed not long ago on local TV and asked about the wisdom of Goodell's decision making and the NFL disciplinary process, and he responded something like "if I was wearing a blue shirt and goodell said "nice blue shirt" I would question if my shirt was really blue. I don't trust this man at all."
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/23/16 02:32 PM

“When you fight eggs with a rock, the eggs never win,”
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/23/16 02:48 PM

Why would anyone fight eggs?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/23/16 03:07 PM

They are on the front lawn
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/23/16 04:58 PM

It's won thing to give Goodell soul power to be judge, jury and executioner (the players union needs to live with that decision), it's another to dole out unprecedented punishment on someone where there is absolutely no evidence he was involved. Based on this ruling, Goodell could suspend anyone for anything-no need to prove it.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/23/16 05:19 PM

As per the latest (who know if it is true) the decision to suspend him was not based upon the deflated ball or balls or if they were even deflated but on if he destroyed his cell phone.


Also as per contract Goodell could suspend anyone for anything with no need to prove it.

But this may be Brady's last year (a possibility) and he can stall it to 2018 when he is retired.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/23/16 05:27 PM

You might want to read up on it. Its funny, he wasn't obligated (legally or under the bargaining agreement) to provide the phone. In fact, he provided logs of all of his texts. There were no smoking gun texts found on the phones of the 2 employees that were involve in this either.

I understand Goodell has the right under the agreement to do what he wants. The NFL had the end game in mind and twisted this pathetic charade through to make it fit.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/23/16 05:47 PM

http://deadspin.com/the-full-story-of-tom-bradys-destroyed-cell-phone-1722190784

Of course, Wells wasn’t solely looking for Brady’s communication with Jastremski and McNally, but also whether he had used a variety of deflation-related terms with anybody else. And as pointed out in the NFL’s questioning of Brady, there are also three texts exchanged with Jastremski on February 7 that do not appear in the Wells Report:


Still no proof ( thanks again for the personalized book. Tom and Giselle were nice when he personally autographed it and took me and the wife out to dinner)
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/23/16 05:57 PM

He is guilty based on 3 texts that can't be found. Makes sense. By the way, that story was from last August. The NFL has changed it's story several times since then.

I hope you enjoyed the kale.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/23/16 06:07 PM

Originally Posted By TB 12
He is guilty based on 3 texts that can't be found. Makes sense. By the way, that story was from last August. The NFL has changed it's story several times since then.

I hope you enjoyed the kale.


Not exactly he is guilty (or not) because Goodall says so and the players gave him that for a few shinny beads and twigs.

Then again why would the others mess with the ball without his permission (one of the dumbest rules of the NFL to allow any team to access the balls on game day)

Why couldn't he tell the difference between a good ball and a bad one (this is the integrity thing in the above posts)? I can tell when my tires are underinflated a few pounds.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/23/16 06:07 PM

Love the Kale and the avocado ice cream
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/23/16 06:35 PM

Again, no proof of anyone deflating the balls.

I have no idea what you mean by your last comment (not the kale comment)
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/23/16 06:40 PM

That would be the should have know part.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/23/16 06:43 PM

and for proof ( not safe for work)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd3D2gsPUR0
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/24/16 08:38 PM

Hears some proof:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/physics-eng...50568--nfl.html
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/25/16 10:22 AM

including 10 from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology

A bunch of patriot fans?

They still did not explain why the Patriot balls deflated yet the other teams did not or why the team equipment guy took the balls to the bathroom with him (on tape).
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/25/16 11:39 AM


The ball shall be made up of an inflated (12 1/2 to 13 1/2 pounds) urethane bladder enclosed in a pebble grained, leather case(natural tan color) without corrugations of any kind."

Notice how there's no mention of pounds per square inch? It's just pounds. Taken literally, the rules say that the bladder inside the football should weigh between 12.5 and 13.5 lbs.

So there you have it. According to the NFL's own rules, football is meant be played with something approaching the weight of the average bowling ball, not the feathery insubstantial spheroid that these so-called athletes have been prancing around the gridiron with for all these years.


http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2015/01...s-cheated-video


They really cheated (as well as all other NFL team as none use balls weighing as much as a bowling ball)

dispute Brady is a cheat
Non-dispute NFL is a mess
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/25/16 12:15 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
including 10 from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology

A bunch of patriot fans?

They still did not explain why the Patriot balls deflated yet the other teams did not or why the team equipment guy took the balls to the bathroom with him (on tape).


Its like talking to a wall.

3 of the 4 Colts balls checked at halftime were found to be underinflated.

Again ed, show me evidence Brady deflated the balls or ordered the deflation.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/25/16 12:27 PM

Originally Posted By TB 12
Originally Posted By edAudit
including 10 from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology

A bunch of patriot fans?

They still did not explain why the Patriot balls deflated yet the other teams did not or why the team equipment guy took the balls to the bathroom with him (on tape).


Its like talking to a wall.

3 of the 4 Colts balls checked at halftime were found to be underinflated.

Again ed, show me evidence Brady deflated the balls or ordered the deflation.
And that was after they had sat in a warm locker room for at least 10 minutes longer than the Patriots' balls.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/25/16 12:28 PM

once again the suspension was about obstruction and not about him personally deflating the balls
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/25/16 12:30 PM

I for one do not know how compliance people can defend the actions of this team.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/25/16 12:35 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By TB 12
Originally Posted By edAudit
including 10 from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology

A bunch of patriot fans?

They still did not explain why the Patriot balls deflated yet the other teams did not or why the team equipment guy took the balls to the bathroom with him (on tape).


Its like talking to a wall.

3 of the 4 Colts balls checked at halftime were found to be underinflated.

Again ed, show me evidence Brady deflated the balls or ordered the deflation.
And that was after they had sat in a warm locker room for at least 10 minutes longer than the Patriots' balls.


Where is the evidence that 10 minutes prior to the game start will make a difference or that any of the colts balls were deflated under the limit,
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/25/16 12:50 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
once again the suspension was about obstruction and not about him personally deflating the balls


Wrong again ed-it was more than the non cooperation (which in itself is lewdicrous). From http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl...gland/30082201/

"NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell upheld Brady's ban Tuesday in a strongly worded, 20-page decision that said the evidence supports his findings that Brady "participated in a scheme to tamper" with game balls used in January's AFC Championship Game and "willfully obstructed" an NFL-backed investigation - in part by having his cell phone destroyed."
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/25/16 12:58 PM

Ed, I'm talking about the halftime measurements. At halftime, the officials took Patriots and Colts balls into the officials locker room. The Colts balls all sat there while the Patriots balls were being tested. When the officials finally got around to testing the Colts balls, they only had time left to test 4 of the 12 balls and 3 of those 4 were underinflated according to one of the two gauges used. During that time they sat there in the officials locker room, which would have to have been about 10 minutes, those Colts balls pressure would have increased over what the pressure would have been immediately coming off the much colder field which is the conditions under which the Patriots' balls were tested.

The point is - inconsistent measurement standards were used for the Patriots' balls and the Colts' balls. so any comparison, and conclusions drawn as a result of comparison between the Patriots' balls and Colts' balls is scientifically flawed.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/25/16 01:00 PM

https://www.scribd.com/doc/310384056/U-S-Court-of-Appeals-Tom-Brady-Suspension-Ruling

all colt balls tested were good

and Brady was generally aware
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/25/16 01:05 PM

The testing may or may not have been flawed but the fact are that the balls were not inflated at the proper level during the game. Even if you choose to believe that the colts balls were bad as well which there is no evidence of.

None of us are arguing that the NFL is not run by a bunch of clowns.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/25/16 01:08 PM

Refer to pp. 66 - 70 of the Wells report. 3 of the 4 Colts' balls tested were below 12.5 psi on one of the two gauges used. Ed, you should probably be aware that you can't believe everything you read on the internet.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/25/16 01:11 PM

You keep repeating this mantra that all the Colts' balls tested good and that simply is not true.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/25/16 01:20 PM

I was under the impression that the wells report was deemed nonsense by the Brady camp and should not be relied upon.
Posted By: Peepers

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/25/16 01:24 PM

getting rid of a commissioner's ability to rule like this would be a good start.............not sure that would ever happen
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/25/16 01:36 PM



Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
You keep repeating this mantra that all the Colts' balls tested good and that simply is not true.


it is if you use the Blackman reading the colts balls were good yet on both tests the Patriots failed

The argument should not have been based upon psi. It should have been that the weight was inaccurately described in policy. NFL would have looked like the fools that they are and done; no suspension, no loss of draft pics or cash from Kraft.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/25/16 11:17 PM

Interesting Yesterday, more than 20 professors from across the country signed on to back the quarterback, pointing to the flawed science used to find him responsible. Guess maybe there is something to that science stuff after all.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/15703982/professors-back-tom-brady-rehearing-name-science
Posted By: GuitarDude

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/26/16 04:00 AM

::waits for the term "science-denier" to be thrown around::

whistle
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/26/16 10:22 AM

What I find interesting is that out of the 21 more than half are from Massachusetts.

http://www.popsci.com/football-physics-and-science-deflategate

I would be more inclined to believe Popular science than a bunch of college professors with a vested interest in fake science.

The biggest question:

The tiny advantage they may have gained from a better grip on the ball can’t explain such a lopsided outcome. If the Patriots were that much better, why risk punishment by tampering with the footballs?

for an answer See spygate.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/26/16 12:18 PM

Where do you see that more than half are from Mass? Why do the professors have a vested interest in fake science?

The article you posted to was from the day after everything broke on this and is entirely based on the first paragraph which was a report from Chris Mortenson with ESPN that has been subsequently completely rebuked as erroneous.

So tell me, oh wise one, why does the NFL still refuse to release any data on their random halftime testing of footballs during the 2015 season after all this? My conclusion is because the data supports the science - footballs lose pressure in cold weather and a ball that started at 12.5psi in a warm room before the game will be under the minimum threshold by halftime. If their testing had revealed anything that remotely could implicate the Patriots by proving that the Patriots' numbers were just too far off to be scientific, you'd have heard about it in China.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/26/16 12:33 PM

The ball shall be made up of an inflated (12 1/2 to 13 1/2 pounds) urethane bladder enclosed in a pebble grained, leather case (natural tan color) without corrugations of any kind. It shall have the form of a prolate spheroid and the size and weight shall be: long axis, 11 to 11 1/4 inches; long circumference, 28 to 28 1/2 inches; short circumference, 21 to 21 1/4 inches; weight, 14 to 15 ounces.
The Referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications


Where is it indicated that the ball must start a 12 1/2 to 13 1/2 pounds. The ball must contain this pressure during the game. How it got deflated is another issue most real scientists have not weighed in on how a ball can lose more than 15% of its pressure. The Ref had ruled they did not meet the specifications .

Fake science does not put extra pressure in the balls

http://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2015/01/27/bill-nye-science-guy-deflategate-experiment
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/26/16 12:46 PM

Goodall is laughing all the way to the bank.

football is in offseason and news should be slow yet discussions about NFL is all over the news based upon deflated footballs from 2 seasons ago and a bunch of patriot fans claiming that 25 degree difference in temperature caused the balls to deflate. Based upon this junk science the packers and bears should be playing with footballs that they can fold.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/26/16 12:59 PM

Ed, we can't all be good at science. It's OK.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/26/16 01:17 PM

You confuse me ed. You have repeatedly said the NFL has mishandled this and are a bunch of clowns, yet you believe the bs they are throwing out.

You live in the northeast (I presume from your posts). Ever try dribbling a basketball in February?

I will start a rumor that your staff has been embezzling corporate funds and clearly you should have been generally aware this was happening, despite no evidence indicating that funds were embezzled or that you were directly aware of it.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/26/16 01:54 PM

who said I believe what the NFL has said?

Fact: (whether you like it or not) Balls were deflated

Fact: NFL rule state balls need to be over 12.5 and they were not

Fact: Brady phone was mysteriously unavailable

Fact Equipment guy went to the bathroom with the balls

Fact: they were caught others may not have been


Ever try dribbling a basketball in February. Yes the balls are hard (not soft) as a rock and have a few fractures to "prove" it.

I will start a rumor that your staff has been embezzling corporate funds and clearly you should have been generally aware this was happening, despite no evidence indicating that funds were embezzled or that you were directly aware of it. I do not see the relevancy. Now if money was gone and I was responsible for handling the money and 15 bills were short from a pack of 100 that I had access to. I am pretty sure that I would no longer be working at that institution I do not think that I could prove that the weather made the bills disappear and even if I could I would be deemed responsible for letting the wind take the bills.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/26/16 02:40 PM

Fact: (whether you like it or not) Balls were deflated - depends on your definition of "deflated". If deflated means the pressure was lower than it started, then yes. If deflated means someone stuck in a needle and released air, then I don't concede that as fact.

Fact: NFL rule state balls need to be over 12.5 and they were not - neither were 3 of the 4 Colts balls that were measured. And the Colts balls started at a higher pressure than the Patriots balls.

Fact: Brady phone was mysteriously unavailable - Brady was never required to make his phone available, so the fact that he chose not to is not relevant.

Fact Equipment guy went to the bathroom with the balls - he was going to be standing on the field for the next 3 hours. When you gotta go, you gotta go. I guess he should have left the balls outside the bathroom (and his control) so anyone could do anything to them.

Fact: they were caught others may not have been - in fact, when the Jets were caught a few years ago, the penalty was a minor fine.

Originally Posted By edAudit
who said I believe what the NFL has said?

Fact: (whether you like it or not) Balls were deflated

Fact: NFL rule state balls need to be over 12.5 and they were not

Fact: Brady phone was mysteriously unavailable

Fact Equipment guy went to the bathroom with the balls

Fact: they were caught others may not have been
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/26/16 02:52 PM

Kind of fitting that the Jets are constantly use as a measuring stick for actions of the patriots. If I was the Pats (an a potential SB team each year) would wish to compare (and illegally tape) a team that has potential to get a first draft pick.

Fact: they were caught others may not have been - in fact, when the Jets were caught a few years ago, the penalty was a minor fine.

so it should have been no surprise that deflated balls were an issue?

Fact: NFL rule state balls need to be over 12.5 and they were not - neither were 3 of the 4 Colts balls that were measured.

Colts balls were correctly inflated on one gauge Pats were deflated on both.

guess he should have left the balls outside the bathroom (and his control) so anyone could do anything to them.

Balls should have been given to the officials as per league policy> I am pretty sure Brady would not wish that his livelihood was in the can prior to him handling it.
Posted By: Peepers

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/26/16 03:03 PM

Fact: Roger Goodell makes the call and teams should live with it. Don't like the rules, change them.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/26/16 03:04 PM

Originally Posted By Peepers
Fact: Roger Goodell makes the call and teams should live with it. Don't like the rules, change them.


Fact Peepers is correct (along with the women and pie issue, housekeeping...)
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/26/16 03:35 PM

Don't try injecting common sense into this issue.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 06/07/16 02:51 PM

New plan to foil the patriots


1) with newfound knowledge from Toms book and dinner with Tom an Gigi (thanks for the set up TB12), set up meeting with Aaron Rodgers.
2) go to Green Bay
3) get Aaron to swear off cheese and all dairy products using mind control (no normal person would do this as the GB QB)
4) have Jets contact GB to trade AR to Jets

Evil plan solved (I did not even need the sharks with laser beams)
Posted By: Peepers

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 06/07/16 05:05 PM

what in God's name are you rambling about?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 06/07/16 05:07 PM

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/pac...c515tlyu8k59ojl


I would have thought that being an expert on a well balance diet you would be informed of this.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/13/16 02:22 PM

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/footba...ticle-1.2709524
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/13/16 02:43 PM

I heard his defense will be that he didn't intentionally know about the deflated balls, therefore he can't be guilty...
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/13/16 02:56 PM

Ah, so he is incompetent. He doesn't possess working knowledge of a pump or needle.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/13/16 02:57 PM

one might say he was extremely careless
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/13/16 03:07 PM

It's over....................


http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/13/us-appeal...egate-case.html
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/13/16 04:46 PM

Justice doesn't always get served.
Posted By: TMatt87

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/13/16 04:54 PM

Luckily the AFC East is one of the weakest divisions in the NFL, so a 4 game suspension probably won't effect anything. The Pats will still go 11-5 or better and easily make the playoffs.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/13/16 05:01 PM

Well there is the Dolphins Bills Jets


Well if they are really as bad as it appears why would one need to cheat against them?
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/13/16 05:03 PM

performance bonuses that are triggered for wins? playoff victories? stats achieved?
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/13/16 06:07 PM

Originally Posted By TB 12
Justice doesn't always get served.


excellent point - I know that the Colts were hoping for retro-active awarding of the win for this game where they Pats were found guilty of cheating by the ruling authority, as well as subsequent wins. Sadly, won't happen, so no justice here.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/13/16 06:11 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
Originally Posted By TB 12
Justice doesn't always get served.


excellent point - I know that the Colts were hoping for retro-active awarding of the win for this game where they Pats were found guilty of cheating by the ruling authority, as well as subsequent wins. Sadly, won't happen, so no justice here.


That is not what he is referring to. I believe that since they should have been disqualified for every game that they cheated in they would have the worst record in the NFL as such they should be awarded a better line of draft pics. laugh
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/13/16 06:13 PM

that's a good point Ed, but since they had to forfeit a couple of draft picks already, maybe it is in reference to the inconsistencies if they forfeited all games would they get picks back? or lose even more picks?
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/13/16 06:14 PM

Originally Posted By TMatt87
Luckily the AFC East is one of the weakest divisions in the NFL, so a 4 game suspension probably won't effect anything. The Pats will still go 11-5 or better and easily make the playoffs.
I keep hearing this, but the statistics don't hold up. In 2015, for example, the AFC East as a whole had more wins (36) than any other division except the NFC South which also had 36. If you take the top team out of each division, including the AFC East, the remaining teams in the AFC East still had more wins than the bottom 3 teams in any other division. So how, exactly, does that make it one of the weakest divisions in the NFL?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/13/16 06:24 PM

For starters the jets have not had a NFL quality QB since Namath (and he is rated as the most overrated player in the HOF) . With the exception of last year when they had their best QB in decades. it is noted that he could not start on a laundry list of NFL teams. He could not even get himself arrested so he was dumped from the Bengal's
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/13/16 07:30 PM

Ultimately the players brought this on themselves by allowing Goodell to have ultimate power and be able to hand out punishment without any evidence of a wrongdoing. For that, Brady deserves blame as a member of the union.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/13/16 07:45 PM

there was enough proof for an independent person (Goodall) to pronounce him guilty
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/13/16 07:59 PM

As independent as the FBI was regarding a recent candidate being cleared of charges.....
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/13/16 08:03 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
there was enough proof for an independent person (Goodall) to pronounce him guilty
If you think Goodell is independent, you must have a different dictionary than I do.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/13/16 08:03 PM

There is no proof that he lacked independence . Much like the claim that he had noting to with making the balls deflate or that the laws of physics have changed and they deflated themselves.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/13/16 08:51 PM

OK.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/13/16 08:59 PM

Goodell is there for the sanctity of the league...without his oversight and direction, every team could cheat, which would lead to an actually exciting product that doesn't need 35 seconds between each play for an announcer to show 12 different camera views of what you just watched live scandals among the fan base, and if you're team is perceived to have been cheated, possibly you stop giving as much money to the NFL as they get now...have enough teams with that perception and the revenue drops, and Goodell doesn't get his $44,000,000 per year...so yes, it is in his best interest to be fair and impartial...
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/14/16 01:34 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
...without his oversight and direction, every team could cheat,

Hasn't worked. Every team DOES cheat. See www.yourteamcheats.com
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/14/16 02:19 PM

I find it strange that the ownership of the domain is not published in the FAQs

The source data comes from???
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/14/16 03:19 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
I find it strange that the ownership of the domain is not published in the FAQs

The source data comes from???
Everything in there provides links to third party documentation including source of that documentation.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/14/16 03:34 PM

Quote:
Hasn't worked. Every team DOES cheat. See www.yourteamcheats.com


oh please, like I'm supposed to believe EVEYTHING I read on the internet? pshaw... shocked
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/14/16 04:34 PM

it should be noted that there is NO citation for their scoring system or how a "cheat" that was not implemented was actually a cheat.

see Impedegate (2013
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/14/16 05:12 PM

The Jets are 2nd in number of cheats. Given their record, they don't cheat very well.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/14/16 05:32 PM

Headsetgate (ongoing) flags
to top ⤴

home ⇐

awards ⤵


TEAM: All 32 NFL Teams

SEVERITY:scale

SUMMARY: it's a common complaint around the NFL. In late, close games, the helmet communicators of visiting teams suddenly "malfunction" and stop working. It has been accepted as standard practice in the league. Are you on the road and the game is close? Then you are going to have problems with your headset.

In recent years, the Patriots have accused the Colts of doing it and the Jaguars have made the same charge of the Patriots. The Redskins accused the Buccaneers of disabling their headsets, and Tampa Bay accused Dallas. The Giants openly bragged about doing it way back in 1956. The charges go on and on and on.


VICTIM: The entire league


they are not even listed as cheating but yet got 4 points. how is that possible unless the site was written by a patriot fan blaming the jets for all the cheats that they do/
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/14/16 08:00 PM

why wouldn't each team just bring their own communication devices and not rely on home team to supply? the cost is negligible...
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/14/16 08:02 PM

so they can have another fake issue that sells tickets.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/18/16 11:01 AM

glad to see this finally over and the guilty will serve his penalty
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/18/16 12:30 PM

I finally see the penalty for allegedly deflating footballs:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/27/nfl-2015-fine-schedule


crazy
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/18/16 12:40 PM

Other Uniform/Equipment Violations; $5,787; $11,576

in 2015 it would include a fine and a suspension? What about 2016?
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/18/16 12:43 PM

The alleged incident took place in 2015.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/18/16 12:58 PM

and the previous 10+ years
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/18/16 01:03 PM

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/19/about-college-footballs-deflated-ball-scandal/

USC was fined $25,000 for the incident and the student manager in question was fired. From our report from November 2012:

not related to any previous post

Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/18/16 01:05 PM

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=defl...&ajaxhist=0

one would think that a ref would notice something is wrong. smile
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/18/16 01:14 PM

so Brady agrees to take the punishment and not appeal, because by appealing it may mean his sentence is put on hold then would be in place at a critical time, such as playoff contention...silly man, don't you know when you go up against Goodell you won't be in the playoffs?
Posted By: MScarn6942

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/18/16 01:31 PM

Happy, the crazy thing is how smart that was of him to take it now instead of closer to the playoffs. They can certainly go 2-2 with Jimmy vs the Cards, Dolphins, Texans, and Bills (see: Matt Cassel 2008). Brady can go 10-2 and now they're sitting at 12-4, probably atop the division, and in the playoffs and it's business as usual.

As a Colts fan, it makes me sick. smile
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/18/16 01:42 PM

He could have strung it out another year (prior to a SCOTUS ruling if they are willing to take the case) with delays and then retire with no penalty
Posted By: MScarn6942

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/18/16 03:09 PM

Think Brady's ready to retire after this season?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/18/16 03:15 PM

That would be up to him but why would he need to play?

There is a good chance of another SB run with or without him for the first 4.
Posted By: MScarn6942

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/18/16 03:43 PM

Wouldn't he want to play for a chance at more rings? It's certainly not the money he's chasing!
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/18/16 03:57 PM

Right now he is still playing at a very high level and he has a lot to prove.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/18/16 04:10 PM

http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/18/16 04:43 PM

Originally Posted By WSB Compliance
It's certainly not the money he's chasing!


now that is downright funny, yes it is...

Quote:

By Henry McKenna March 10, 2016


Tom Brady’s four-year, $60 million deal includes a $28 million signing bonus, via The Boston Globe’s Ben Volin.

Under his previous contract, Brady was set to earn $19 million in the next two years. The Patriots quarterback will now earn $30 million under his new deal.

His base salary is $1 million in 2016 and 2017, and $14 million in 2018 and 2019. His cap hit for the Patriots will be $14 million in 2016 and 2017 and $22 million in 2018 and 2019. In his new deal, he will get $8 million less in salary, instead receiving compensation through a signing bonus. This adjustment could save Brady $2 million in the event he needs to serve his four-game suspension for Deflategate.

Brady will have a per-game roster bonus in 2018 and 2019. Every game he’s active, he’ll receive $62,500.

Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/18/16 04:53 PM

Smart businessman.

Brady's contracts have historically been very team friendly. Compare him to others:

http://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/18/16 04:57 PM

Originally Posted By TB 12
Smart businessman.

Brady's contracts have historically been very team friendly. Compare him to others:

http://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/




???

10 ranked contract for an 11 ranked QB seems about fair.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/18/16 05:23 PM

11th ranked based on one set of "parameters".

Based on that ranking, Alex Smith, Tyrod Taylor and Kirk Cousins are better than Brady....
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/18/16 06:52 PM

ranking seems right....
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/18/16 06:59 PM

Quote:
His cap hit for the Patriots will be $14 million in 2016 and 2017 and $22 million in 2018 and 2019


this doesn't sound very team friendly to me, especially with the $28,000,000 up front guaranteed...that sounds very Brady friendly...and very Brady's agent friendly...
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/18/16 07:25 PM

Here is another ranking-

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/18/16 07:36 PM

there is a lot more than Passing in the NFL for a QB.


here is another ranking ( I do not believe that he is rated 26 overall)

http://pickingpros.com/nfl/quarterback-rushing-leaders.php
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/18/16 07:52 PM

That's my point. Like anything else we can all slice and dice stats and numbers to fit our particular argument.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/19/16 11:32 AM

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2016/07/19...other-team.html

A federal judge sentenced the former scouting director of the St. Louis Cardinals to nearly four years in prison Monday for hacking the Houston Astros' player personnel database and email system in an unusual case of high-tech cheating involving two Major League Baseball clubs


wow 4 years in prison for cheating
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/19/16 12:47 PM

Excellent apples to apples comparison.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/19/16 12:48 PM

????

(not the Patriots this time)
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/19/16 03:46 PM

Not sure why anyone would be interested in anything the Astros have in mind. That team has stunk up the field for years.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/19/16 07:11 PM

So I was on vacation Friday and yesterday and didn't get here. Glad to see nothing has changed.
Posted By: MyBrainHurts

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/19/16 07:57 PM

A couple Cards employees went to the Astros. The hacker thought they stole info, so he hacked into the Astros system. One of the two ex-Cards made it easy by using the same password he had used in St. Louis.

There isn't much sympathy for this blockhead in Cardinal Nation. The real concern is whether the team will lose draft picks or face other sanctions as a result of this guy's actions.
Posted By: MScarn6942

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/19/16 09:02 PM

Glad this guy actually got punished instead of the "punishments" New England has gotten over the years...
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/20/16 12:25 PM

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/26529...paign=editorial

wonder what the penalty will be for this alleged act of cheating.
Posted By: MyBrainHurts

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/20/16 02:44 PM

What will the IOC do about Russia? That's the biggest cheating scandal of all.
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/20/16 02:48 PM

For a superstar? Probably the same as some who carelessly mishandle info.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/25/16 04:27 PM

Quote:
NEW YORK (AP) — The NFL says it found no credible evidence that Peyton Manning was provided with HGH or other prohibited substances as alleged in a documentary by Al-Jazeera America last fall.

The league said the quarterback and his wife fully cooperated in the seven-month investigation, providing interviews and access to all records sought by investigators. Manning vehemently denied the allegations when they were made late in the season.

Manning retired from the NFL a month after Denver's 24-10 win over Carolina in Super Bowl 50.

The NFL is continuing its investigation into allegations made against other NFL players in the documentary, which the league said involves "different lines of inquiry and witnesses."


see, if you are innocent, the NFL will find you innocent...a simple process, really...
Posted By: thomasj

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/25/16 05:23 PM

What is funny is that they have exonerated Peyton, yet the others who were implicated by this source that has since recanted their statements are still under investigation. It sounds like a standoff with the players union and Goodell. James Harrison invited them to his home to give an interview on the condition that Mr. Goodell is present but I believe that offer was declined.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 07/25/16 08:51 PM

I suppose since he retired, there was nothing to be used to pressure existing teams about a spot for him, hence they can just close it up.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/06/16 07:39 PM

http://www.businessinsider.com/tom-brady-nfl-shield-logo-sticker-helmet-stickergate-2016-9


here we go again; Brady is obtaining an unfair advantage by having his helmet lighter than his fellow QB's by not having the appropriate sticker on his helmet. (bring out Mr. Wells)
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/06/16 08:03 PM

does not the new man-bun weight compensate for the missing sticker?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/09/16 12:35 PM

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-spo...ID=ansmsnnews11

All he did was lie about it, he did not even destroy his phone. It is not like he let water out of the pool.
Posted By: Peepers

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/09/16 01:56 PM

"All four swimmers will not be allowed to visit the White House....."

not a bad deal
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/09/16 01:56 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
It is not like he let water out of the pool.

He more probably than not did pee in the pool.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/09/16 01:57 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By edAudit
It is not like he let water out of the pool.

He more probably than not did pee in the pool.


Isn't that what the back alley of a gas station is for?
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/09/16 09:25 PM

well, I'm certainly glad we can put these heinous actions behind us, tearing a soap dispenser off the wall is reprehensible and I'm surprised they let him off with just a 10-month suspension.
Posted By: TMatt87

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/09/16 11:05 PM

...and $100,000 in forfeited bonus money.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/12/16 10:53 AM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
well, I'm certainly glad we can put these heinous actions behind us, tearing a soap dispenser off the wall is reprehensible and I'm surprised they let him off with just a 10-month suspension.


The video does not even show them in the men's room. They broke a advertisement sign that the station get for free.

but the suspension was for lying. If only politicians were held to such accountability.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/20/16 07:05 PM

Ed? Happy? I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you. You guys had absolutely nothing to say about the Seahawks being penalized a weeks' worth of OTAs, hundreds of thousands in fines, including $200K for Pete Carroll, and forfeiture of a 2017 draft pick?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/20/16 07:32 PM

Are you sure the excessive contact was not called by the equipment guy?

Did any other team have contact on that day?

Were they filmed in violation of state law for privacy?


The decision to impose discipline was made after the NFL and NFLPA independently reviewed the Seahawks’ June 6, 2016 on-field practice video and agreed that the club had violated the “no-live-contact” rule, as set forth in Article 21, Section 2(b)(iii), Section 5(a) and Appendix G of the CBA.




The Seahawks were also advised that any additional violation of the CBA’s player work rules, or any violation affecting the competitive aspects of the game, will likely result in significantly higher fines, the cancellation of future OTA days, minicamp days, preseason or regular season practices, as well as the forfeiture of higher-round or multiple draft selections.


http://www.ninersnation.com/2016/9/19/12...rules-violation

PS: My news was overrun with NY/NJ bombing and Senator Warren ranting on ethics in employment (pot kettle thing) . Sorry I missed it.
Posted By: Peepers

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/20/16 07:44 PM

also, people like the Seahawks
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/20/16 07:56 PM

Originally Posted By Peepers
also, people like the Seahawks
Haters gonna hate!
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/20/16 08:05 PM

Beech - never heard a word about this...guess the local media does not consider the Seahawks an actual NFL team...

but it also appears from a quick glance that they owned up to the violation and agreed to take their lumps...unlike some other teams that deny deny deny and hope to wear down the NFL...

then again, the NFL is such a pedestrian game these days, hardly worth the time and energy to watch, much less comment on...

finally, you also don't have Seahawk fans still bringing up the past and trying to justify what 99% of the people know was wrong - and the remaining 1% are the fans of the team
Posted By: Wolfy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/26/16 05:02 PM

Interesting rule: from Sunday's GB vs Lions game
On the kickoff, the Detroit Lions sprung the ball to the three-yard line. Montgomery stepped out of bounds and dove on top of the ball while his feet remained out of bounds.

NFL rules dictate that if the ball comes into contact with a player that is out of bounds, the ball is considered out of bounds as well. And since Montgomery kept his feet out of bounds, the ball was whistled dead.

The Lions were then penalized for kicking the ball out of bounds, and instead of starting on the 3-yard line, the Packers got the ball on the 40. Four players later, they'd score a touchdown.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/26/16 07:33 PM

who does Montgomery play for?
Posted By: Cornfed Turtle

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/26/16 07:39 PM

packers
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/26/16 08:01 PM

hmmm...why not an offensive player left the field and came back in and was first to touch the ball, a 15 yard penalty? just another case of the NFL having silly rules...
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/28/16 12:53 PM

Because from Wolfy's description the players feet were out of bounds when he fell on it-he was not completely back in the field of play.
Posted By: MScarn6942

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/28/16 01:30 PM

TB12 is right - there's a picture online of the player laying down on the field so he can keep his toes out of bounds while touching the ball in bounds.
Posted By: burkemi

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/28/16 01:53 PM

It was just an intelligent football play. He knew the rulebook and exploited that piece to his advantage. As a Lions fan, I despised the play; but can't deny its brilliance.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/28/16 02:55 PM

last night in our weekly soccer pickup game, I inflated 4 of the balls we use to higher pressure than normal (supposed to be 9.5-13 PSI) and left one at 9...first guy that kicked the 9 lb one said "okay, who is the tom brady...

back to your regularly scheduled cheating thread...
Posted By: burkemi

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/28/16 03:02 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
last night in our weekly soccer pickup game, I inflated 4 of the balls we use to higher pressure than normal (supposed to be 9.5-13 PSI) and left one at 9...first guy that kicked the 9 lb one said "okay, who is the tom brady...


I have new found respect for you! laugh
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/14/16 12:01 PM

so now the Steelers are a bunch of cheats?
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/14/16 04:21 PM

I believe you mean "now they have been caught" because I believe over the course of this thread it has been determined that every team cheats (well, except maybe Cleveland and San Francisco, because there is no way those teams are cheating with the records they have).
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/14/16 04:27 PM

No they are not. The NFL conducted an investigation as thorough and complete as the one they did on the Patriots and were found not to have cheated.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/14/16 04:34 PM

Originally Posted By TB 12
No they are not. The NFL conducted an investigation as thorough and complete as the one they did on the Patriots and were found not to have cheated.


I was under the impression that the balls were 11.8 and 11.4 psi. So it the Pats are big time cheaters due to under inflation so are the Steelers. Was Ben asked for his phone?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/14/16 04:36 PM

I would need to check the NFL's TIL "truth in leakage"
Posted By: MScarn6942

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/14/16 04:38 PM

Originally Posted By TB 12
No they are not. The NFL conducted an investigation as thorough and complete as the one they did on the Patriots and were found not to have cheated.


Didn't that take weeks when the NFL investigated New England? And only a few days for Pittsburgh? How could it have been as thorough and complete?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/14/16 05:03 PM

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51B-WP9RvFL.jpg

must be some type of nfl promotion
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/14/16 06:16 PM

Originally Posted By WSB Compliance
Originally Posted By TB 12
No they are not. The NFL conducted an investigation as thorough and complete as the one they did on the Patriots and were found not to have cheated.


Didn't that take weeks when the NFL investigated New England? And only a few days for Pittsburgh? How could it have been as thorough and complete?
I think TB just forgot to activate the sarcasm font on his post.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/14/16 06:17 PM

Anyone who thinks now that there isn't a double standard in the NFL league office when it comes to the Patriots is probably living under a rock.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/14/16 06:20 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By WSB Compliance
Originally Posted By TB 12
No they are not. The NFL conducted an investigation as thorough and complete as the one they did on the Patriots and were found not to have cheated.


Didn't that take weeks when the NFL investigated New England? And only a few days for Pittsburgh? How could it have been as thorough and complete?
I think TB just forgot to activate the sarcasm font on his post.


Yes, I did not activate the dripping with sarcasm font

To clarify for WSB, the investigation went on for 16 months or so.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/14/16 06:26 PM

That must be because the Colts filed a "formal complaint" in the middle of the 1st half of the game, because the investigation kicked off at halftime. This one was quickly dismissed by the NFL because the Giants did NOT file a "formal complaint". At least that's what the NFL's press release said.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/14/16 06:28 PM

It only took 16 months at the investigators could not stop ogling Brady's wife. .
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/14/16 06:30 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
That must be because the Colts filed a "formal complaint" in the middle of the 1st half of the game, because the investigation kicked off at halftime. This one was quickly dismissed by the NFL because the Giants did NOT file a "formal complaint". At least that's what the NFL's press release said.


It is Wednesday, the Giants are still deterring if they should kick or receive from the last game.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/14/16 06:31 PM

NYG: Hi NFL, we think 2 of the Steelers balls were under inflated by at least 1 PSI. Can you check it out?
NFL: Sure. click
NFL (8 minutes later): Hi NYG-we checked it out-no chain of command violations. We are good.
NYG: OK.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/14/16 06:31 PM

Notice here too, the Patriots fans on here were taking the high road and hadn't even brought this up.

Also, with regard to the NFL press release - it's obvious they've learned something about the "Ideal Gas Law" since 2015 and it's obvious they don't know the difference between "chain of command" and "chain of custody"
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/14/16 06:43 PM

since the story is another mess the NY daily news reported that the Giants tested the balls (did they let out some air on test?) and then sent them to the officials.

But the NFL should have conducted some inquiry and the Giants should not have messed with the ball.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/14/16 07:27 PM

Demonstration of exactly what kind of hypocrite Roger Goodell is:

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/12/14/hu...n-inexplicable/
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/14/16 07:44 PM

It boils down to a mathematical equation 7 vs. 12. Since Brady wears number 12 on his jersey he should know that the ball needs more than 12 psi (12.5). Big Ben wears 7 and can not remember how much air needs to be in the ball.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/14/16 08:32 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Anyone who thinks now that there isn't a double standard in the NFL league office when it comes to the Patriots is probably living under a rock.


I think everyone is aware a double standard exists at the NFL office, the Patriots get all kinds of passes that result in fines, suspensions, and removal of players and coaches for other teams...
Posted By: Cornfed Turtle

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/14/16 08:44 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Also, with regard to the NFL press release - it's obvious they've learned something about the "Ideal Gas Law" since 2015 and it's obvious they don't know the difference between "chain of command" and "chain of custody"


I love this.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/14/16 09:41 PM

Quote:
Didn't that take weeks when the NFL investigated New England? And only a few days for Pittsburgh? How could it have been as thorough and complete?


they bought new PSI gauges that worked?
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/19/16 01:42 PM

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/sources-york-giants-fined-walkie-talkie/story?id=44264015

Another example of the NFL being consistent with punishing cheaters.

[sarcasm font off]
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/19/16 02:02 PM

Coaches are not allowed to hold any two-way radios during a game, but Giants coach Ben McAdoo was seen on the sidelines holding the walkie-talkie when it was apparent the team was having trouble getting plays in to Eli Manning

One NFL source said that even though the Giants weren't communicating with Manning within 15 seconds of the play clock ending, they had the "opportunity" to do it. The same source said McAdoo's use of a walkie-talkie is worse than what the Cleveland Browns did in 2014, when they ultimately lost a draft pick for in-game communications between former general manager Ray Farmer and former offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan.


Not sure that any of this makes sense.

if he was not to hold the devise what difference does 15 seconds make?

Are they guilty of something?

One would also think it would be worse for coaches to communicate illegally when they could be stealing signals.

Another poorly written article about some poorly designed rule.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/19/16 03:50 PM

ed-the first line seems pretty clear as to the rule: coaches can't hold two way radios


Giants coach held two way radio, hence the violation.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/19/16 04:04 PM

Ok so the HC is holding a radio on camera (for the millions of Television watchers) two weeks latter they are still investigating it?

Did someone call Mr. wells?

If this is real.

http://dailysnark.com/wp-content/uploads...205467404_n.jpg
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/19/16 04:15 PM

unles the violation includes the Paytriots, Mr. Wells phone doesn't ring.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/19/16 07:16 PM

my understanding was that, although he was seen with a two-way radio, it was simply to communicate with the Domino's pizza vendor that services his section and he was simply placing an order.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/19/16 07:35 PM

those things are hidden everywhere from when Rob Ryan was at the stadium (for said pizza activity) it was just a matter of time until they caught him with it,
Posted By: CB#3

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/20/16 02:39 PM

With the NFL, you never know what type of penalty they'll throw at you. The Giants will only get a slap on the wrist. Any other team would lose draft picks.

I can understand the issue. It would be a huge competitive advantage for the offense if say the booth radios in a coverage the QB may not have seen right before the snap.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/20/16 02:53 PM

The interesting part of this is that there is now proof that a malfunction of the head set does not only happen to visiting teams as it does in other stadiums.
Posted By: RockChucker, CAMS

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/13/17 05:48 PM

So is what I am seeing in the news real? Brady getting investigated again?
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/13/17 05:53 PM

Goodell and the whole NFL are cheaters!!! With all the protests about inclusion, lives that matter, dishonoring the flag and dishonoring the office of the President of all 'Merica, you would think the Dallas Cowboys could wear a small symbol honoring 5 murdered police officers. Who makes these stupid decisions? And they coddle women-beaters!
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/13/17 06:04 PM

Originally Posted By RockChucker, CAMS
So is what I am seeing in the news real? Brady getting investigated again?


???
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/13/17 06:10 PM

Originally Posted By RockChucker, CAMS
So is what I am seeing in the news real? Brady getting investigated again?


Did he stay in the Lincoln bedroom and let the air out of the sleep number bed?
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/13/17 07:27 PM

Ed, you are the gift that keeps on giving.
Posted By: Peepers

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/13/17 07:38 PM

laugh
Posted By: RockChucker, CAMS

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/13/17 08:45 PM

I saw an article that he was being investigated for performance enhancing drug use. In today's news world so much is [censored] and I don't follow the news closely so I can't be sure. I think the stuff was called Alpha Monster???
Posted By: RockChucker, CAMS

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/13/17 08:45 PM

that censored word was carp
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/13/17 08:51 PM

I think it may have been an old story now he just eats kale 24/7. The call it the "Peepers" diet.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/13/17 09:13 PM

I've seen that several times in my Twitter feed - it's a sponsored link that is trying to play of Brady's name and fame to get people to try a supplement that he has absolutely no ties to whatsoever. It's click bait pure and simple.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/13/17 09:30 PM

Quote:
a sponsored link that is trying to play of Brady's name and fame to get people to try a supplement that he has absolutely no ties to whatsoever


wow, you are familiar with every endorsement deal he holds? you are one serious fan...
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/14/17 12:34 PM

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nf...ating/97634656/
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/14/17 12:47 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
Quote:
a sponsored link that is trying to play of Brady's name and fame to get people to try a supplement that he has absolutely no ties to whatsoever


wow, you are familiar with every endorsement deal he holds? you are one serious fan...
No, but I did read the article and was able to make an intelligent discernment.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/17/17 08:17 PM

Eli Manning

Will a player who did not destroy his phone (with potential evidence) get the same suspension as one who did? That is of course if the destruction of the phone was the legit reason for Brady's suspension.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/18/17 01:59 PM

I am sure Daddy Manning will make sure his precious Eli doesn't get in trouble for trying to rip off collectors.
Posted By: RockChucker, CAMS

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/18/17 04:47 PM

Originally Posted By TB 12
I am sure Daddy Manning will make sure his precious Eli doesn't get in trouble for trying to rip off collectors.



I get the feeling someone is still sensitive about their favorite QB getting his share of the lime light.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/18/17 04:58 PM

As a Pats fan, I despise Eli for beating the Pats twice in the Super Bowl.

My comment is not based on being sensitive (they won twice after the alleged deflation of footballs), but is an observation based on prior acts.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/18/17 05:26 PM

Originally Posted By RockChucker, CAMS
Originally Posted By TB 12
I am sure Daddy Manning will make sure his precious Eli doesn't get in trouble for trying to rip off collectors.



I get the feeling someone is still sensitive about their favorite QB getting his share of the lime light.

It's more a matter of consistency. When Roger G spouts off about the integrity of the shield when laying down punishment for one team, then looks the other way when another team appears to be tarnishing that shield, it makes you wonder.
Posted By: RockChucker, CAMS

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/18/17 06:19 PM

So I don't really follow sports very much, who is Daddy Manning anyways? I've heard of Eli and Payton, am I correct to assume it is their father? If it is their father, does he have influence on the NFL?

I really don't put the time in to know and the nitty gritty that goes on.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/18/17 06:26 PM

Archie Manning-former NFL quarterback for the Saints.

When Eli was coming out for the draft, he was in line to be taken by the Chargers. Daddy didn't like that and felt a larger market (I don't recall if he was specifically holding out for the Giants or any large market team) was better for Eli and told the Chargers not to waste the pick as Eli would not sign for them... blah blah.

There were also rumors that Daddy helped Peyton cover up his alleged improprieties while he was at Tennessee (sexually harassing a female athletic trainer).
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/19/17 10:25 AM

There were also rumors that Daddy helped Peyton cover up his alleged improprieties while he was at Tennessee (sexually harassing a female athletic trainer).

There is less proof of that than the deflated football issue.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/19/17 10:40 AM

Wow


http://www.theindychannel.com/news/national/aaron-hernandez-found-dead-in-jail-cell
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/19/17 12:13 PM

Ed, please note I used the words rumors and alleged.
Posted By: Peepers

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/19/17 02:18 PM

it doesn't matter
Posted By: burkemi

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/19/17 04:44 PM

Originally Posted By TB 12

When Eli was coming out for the draft, he was in line to be taken by the Chargers. Daddy didn't like that and felt a larger market (I don't recall if he was specifically holding out for the Giants or any large market team) was better for Eli and told the Chargers not to waste the pick as Eli would not sign for them... blah blah.



If memory serves me right. I believe he was actually drafted by San Diego, then traded to NY in fairly lucrative deal for SD.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/19/17 05:04 PM

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/new-y...ade-2004-120915
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/19/17 05:06 PM

Originally Posted By TB 12
Ed, please note I used the words rumors and alleged.


She had made 27 and then increased to 33 allegations against the team so why only mention one?
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/19/17 05:07 PM

from CBS sports.com:

In the weeks leading up to the 2004 draft, Chargers then-general manager A.J. Smith made no secret that Manning was his guy -- except that days before the first round was to get underway Manning, through his agent, said he had no plans to play for the Chargers.

"He told me that Archie [Manning, Eli's father] wishes that we do not select Eli and that they think he would be a good fit in New York [with the Giants]," Smith told the San Diego Union-Tribune on April 22, 2004. "We understand his position and certainly understand his interest in New York, but we will do what we think is the best for the franchise, without a doubt.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/19/17 06:32 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
Originally Posted By TB 12
Ed, please note I used the words rumors and alleged.


She had made 27 and then increased to 33 allegations against the team so why only mention one?


Cuz I fellt like it.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/20/17 12:34 PM

Arron Hernandez

His suicide may have cheated his guilty verdict as he is still in the appeal process.
Posted By: OldeTymeBanker

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/20/17 05:43 PM

Interesting quote in the Orlando Sentinel this morning:

“O.J. was a football player who committed murder. Hernandez was a murderer who happened to play football.”

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/fl...0420-story.html
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/20/17 06:04 PM

The guy was a complete scumbag. At least the taxpayers of Massachusetts will save money.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/20/17 06:28 PM

Originally Posted By TB 12
The guy was a complete scumbag. At least the taxpayers of Massachusetts will save money.


they most likely will have to throw out otherwise completely good bed sheets.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/20/17 06:30 PM

Since by Mass standards he may not be considered guilty I suppose his estate can sue for wrongful death and then the patriots for the balance of his salary.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/21/17 03:42 PM

Quote:
Eli Manning

Will a player who did not destroy his phone (with potential evidence) get the same suspension as one who did? That is of course if the destruction of the phone was the legit reason for Brady's suspension.


to the original question, the big issue was the NFL getting their cut for Eli authorized NFL memorabilia. If the answer is yes, minimal issue. if the answer is no, the NFL will come down like on him like a bunch of retirees at Golden Corral on "all you can eat shrimp night".
Posted By: MB Guy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/25/17 04:57 PM

http://deadspin.com/this-is-the-story-about-robert-krafts-casino-holdings-t-1794594130
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/25/17 05:10 PM

Good thing it Is not MLB or it would be banned for life
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/25/17 05:51 PM



God Bless America.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/25/17 05:55 PM

At least he did not fund his charity by having appearances at another charity. (which is legal)
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/25/17 06:19 PM

Ed-that story came out yesterday. I am surprised it took you so long to reference it.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/25/17 08:24 PM

it is not any of my business that he takes money out of the hands of disabled people to fund his pet projects. And due to the lack of media attention It appears to be not a biggie. Then again it could just be "fake news".
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 08/03/17 11:18 AM

http://foxsportsradio.iheart.com/content/2017-08-02-tom-brady-the-ped-question/

so avacado ice cream is now a PED?
Posted By: Sinatra Fan

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 08/03/17 12:16 PM

If by PED you mean pretty execrable decision, then, yes, it is. grin
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 08/03/17 12:45 PM

I think ed has a man crush on Tom Brady... you bring him up more than I do.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 08/03/17 01:12 PM

just reporting the stupidity of the sports reporters
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 08/03/17 02:21 PM

You can apply that logic to most of the reports about the Patriots over the years.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 08/03/17 08:24 PM

Originally Posted By TB 12
I think ed has a man crush on Tom Brady... you bring him up more than I do.
That truly made me LOL.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 08/03/17 08:32 PM

Seeing this made me wish the BOL software would once again allow us to change our avatar - there's a nice shiny new piece of hardware to display. The one next to my posts now is so 2014.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 08/21/17 05:18 PM

Due to his evenha... ( I can not even type that) in dealing with player they are working on a deal to extend the contrat of Goodall.
Posted By: Peepers

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 08/21/17 05:35 PM

union president says to expect a work stoppage in 2021

maybe then the commish's power will be scaled back

if not, we'll all be praying for the return of the XFL (He Hate Me)
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/06/17 02:01 PM

not the NFL but does not warrant its own thread

https://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/how-di...html/?a=viewall

Baseball commissioner Rob Manfred confirmed Tuesday that the Red Sox used technology from the dugout to steal opponents’ signs and relay them to team players during games. The investigation is still ongoing but should be completed before the end of the regular season, he said.
Posted By: Peepers

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/06/17 02:16 PM

I sense a trend with New England area sports teams
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/06/17 02:25 PM

At least they admitted that they are cheaters.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/07/17 12:55 PM

Cheaters and racists.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/07/17 01:38 PM

there is apparently a bet in Vegas for how long the Patriots fans boo Goodell tonight, currently sitting at over/under of 35.7 seconds...
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/07/17 02:00 PM

I'll take the over.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/07/17 03:21 PM

yeah, I'm thinking it will be much longer...there is also a bet on whether Brady and Goodell will shake hands...
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/07/17 04:02 PM

They already did a couple of times, so I see no reason why they wouldn't do so again.
Posted By: bcompliance

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/07/17 05:09 PM

I just want to see how many of the barstool sports goodell clown towels make it into the stadium. They are handing out 70,000 to people who show up at various locations with a ticket to the game....
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/07/17 05:21 PM

There is talk in the NY Papers that MLB needs to check the air pressure in the baseballs used in Fenway. That is a ridiculous. Everyone knows that you just put a supper ball in the center or just mess with the windings,
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/07/17 05:44 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
There is talk in the NY Papers that MLB needs to check the air pressure in the baseballs used in Fenway. That is a ridiculous. Everyone knows that you just put a supper ball in the center or just mess with the windings,


Translation anyone?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/07/17 05:49 PM

hái yǒu rén shuō zài měi guó zhí bàng dà lián méng xū yào jiǎn chá zài bàng qiú zài fēn wēi qiú chǎng shǐ yòng de kōng qì yā lì de niǔ yuē zhōu bào zhǐ 。 zhè shì yí gè huāng miù 。 měi gè rén dōu zhī dào , nǐ zhǐ shì chī wǎn fàn bǎ qiú fàng zài zhōng xīn huò zhǐ shì hùn luàn yǔ rào zǔ,
Posted By: MyBrainHurts

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/07/17 06:03 PM

Not sure what that says Ed, but I just got an OFAC hit on your post.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/07/17 06:42 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
hái yǒu rén shuō zài měi guó zhí bàng dà lián méng xū yào jiǎn chá zài bàng qiú zài fēn wēi qiú chǎng shǐ yòng de kōng qì yā lì de niǔ yuē zhōu bào zhǐ 。 zhè shì yí gè huāng miù 。 měi gè rén dōu zhī dào , nǐ zhǐ shì chī wǎn fàn bǎ qiú fàng zài zhōng xīn huò zhǐ shì hùn luàn yǔ rào zǔ,


That makes more sense to me than your original post.
Posted By: #Just Jay

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/07/17 06:50 PM

laugh
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/07/17 08:08 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
there is apparently a bet in Vegas for how long the Patriots fans boo Goodell tonight, currently sitting at over/under of 35.7 seconds...
Well, now the NE media is reporting that Goodell will finish his on-field duties and be off the field well before most fans arrive at the stadium. Translation - pre-filmed sound bites for the TV broadcast. In addition, no shots of Goodell will be shown on any in-stadium screens, he will not be sitting in Robert Kraft's suite, so no real opportunity for a choreographed booing session. But I do hope the #OperationClownFace towels will be prominent in the stadium.
Posted By: MyBrainHurts

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/08/17 01:54 PM

Poor Patriots - sole possession of last place in the NFL.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/08/17 02:01 PM

As much as I dislike the Patriots with the "talent" in their division it will not last long.
Posted By: MScarn6942

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/08/17 02:31 PM

That got ugly last night. It was a really good game until fairly late, but once the Chiefs started to run away with it it turned ugly.

Alex Smith looked uncharacteristically good last night, and how about that rookie RB for the Chiefs?? No fumbles in college, fumbles on his first NFL carry, and then goes for 148/98 and 3 TD...
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/08/17 03:43 PM

So much for 19-0.

The offense will figure it out-the D was pathetic.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/08/17 03:53 PM

we have 2 employees who are huge Patriots fans, they had planned a Patriots victory lunch today (seeing as we are in Saint's territory and play them next week), they ended up cancelling the lunch, fear of choking...
Posted By: BookWormGirl

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/08/17 05:24 PM

Being neither a Chiefs nor a Pats fan (I bleed purple for the Vikings, and let me tell you that blood has been spilled numerous times over the course of my life. We live and die by "There's always next year"...just depends on how early in the season that phrase starts being used), my only rooting interest in last night's game was for fantasy football reasons. I'm facing my boyfriend in Week 1, and I was concerned going into last night's game because he has Tom Brady as his starting QB, and early projections had me losing by less than a point. No biggie...I can overcome that, right?

I had NO IDEA I needed to worry about his late round drafting of the Chief's rookie RB who ended up putting together a 40.60-point performance last night. Needless to say, I'm now projected to lose by 20 points. SMH shocked
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/08/17 05:51 PM

It was not enjoyable watching that. We're on to New Orleans. Hopefully same result this season as last time we suffered an early season beatdown by the Chiefs in 2014. I am concerned about the injuries already starting to pile up for the Patriots though.
Posted By: Pale Rider

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/11/17 06:43 PM

Injuries are changing a lot of teams' prospects after only one week.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/18/17 02:31 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
we have 2 employees who are huge Patriots fans, they had planned a Patriots victory lunch today (seeing as we are in Saint's territory and play them next week), they ended up cancelling the lunch, fear of choking...


Happy-what time is lunch today?
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/18/17 03:34 PM

Lunch today will consist solely of Patriots related food items - at the top is everyone's favorite chips - "Cheat-os"
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/18/17 04:08 PM

You should leave banking for the comedy circuit instead of being a NFL coach.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/26/17 11:01 AM

https://www.boston.com/sports/new-englan...r?event=event51
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/26/17 12:04 PM

Ed, you should check your own local paper: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/footba...ticle-1.3520371
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/26/17 12:36 PM


In his new book, the Patriots quarterback warns readers not to drink tap water because it could contain amounts of fluoride, chlorine, and possibly lead, according to an excerpt obtained by Deadspin. He said tap water should only be consumed if it's filtered first.

So they were poisoning the fans as well?

Note: I am sure that the Patriot org. had nothing to do with this mess. It was most likely caused by some greedy concession management group that is in most if not all stadiums today.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/26/17 12:38 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Ed, you should check your own local paper: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/footba...ticle-1.3520371


This rag should be read just for entertainment purposes only is should in no way be considered a news organization. Much like the Star or National inquirer only less truthful.
Posted By: Sinatra Fan

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/26/17 02:45 PM

Huh. Men in Black said they had the best investigative journalism on the planet. whistle
Posted By: MyBrainHurts

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/26/17 03:10 PM

Water should never be the drink of choice at a football game unless it's first been treated with barley, hops, and yeast.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 10/02/17 03:59 PM

clearly the Carolina Panthers cheated...no way they could beat the Patriots fairly...unless, of course, the Patriots had declared this weekend their "play without cheating" game, which I understand they do once per season.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 10/02/17 04:18 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
clearly the Carolina Panthers cheated...no way they could beat the Patriots fairly...unless, of course, the Patriots had declared this weekend their "play without cheating" game, which I understand they do once per season.


Without cheating they are no better than the Jets?
Posted By: Grapetastic

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 10/02/17 04:32 PM

Maybe we should display some sort of celebratory icon of teams when they cheat, as if to say, "as long as it is my team I will justify to the end".
Posted By: GuitarDude

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 10/02/17 04:43 PM

Similar to Grapetastic's suggestion, I prefer the "everyone cheats, they're just haters against my team" mantra.
Posted By: Portermi, CRCM

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 10/27/17 08:46 PM

I find it hilarious that a forum named Cheaters (Not the Patriots this time) has been, at LEAST, 97% about the Patriots cheating.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 10/27/17 09:16 PM

Quote:
I find it hilarious that a forum named Cheaters (Not the Patriots this time) has been, at LEAST, 97% about the Patriots cheating.


well, we keep trying to include other NFL teams that cheat, but they all seem to come up "Patriots".
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 10/31/17 09:37 PM

Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
Quote:
I find it hilarious that a forum named Cheaters (Not the Patriots this time) has been, at LEAST, 97% about the Patriots cheating.


well, we keep trying to include other NFL teams that cheat, but they all seem to come up "Patriots".
www.yourteamcheats.com
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 11/01/17 12:23 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
Quote:
I find it hilarious that a forum named Cheaters (Not the Patriots this time) has been, at LEAST, 97% about the Patriots cheating.


well, we keep trying to include other NFL teams that cheat, but they all seem to come up "Patriots".
www.yourteamcheats.com


http://steelcurtainrising.com/2015/05/yo...-steroids.html/
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 11/01/17 07:26 PM

Originally Posted By edAudit
Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
Originally Posted By HappyGilmore
Quote:
I find it hilarious that a forum named Cheaters (Not the Patriots this time) has been, at LEAST, 97% about the Patriots cheating.


well, we keep trying to include other NFL teams that cheat, but they all seem to come up "Patriots".
www.yourteamcheats.com


http://steelcurtainrising.com/2015/05/yo...-steroids.html/
So what you’re saying is that every team cheats, just not as much as the yourteamcheats site says?
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 11/01/17 07:35 PM

Actually, I am saying that I would not take the word of a unknown source whose conclusions are dubious and rating system is not documented or consistent. Much like a Risk assessment.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 11/01/17 08:31 PM

Beech - unlike the Patriots, my team does not cheat. They may attempt to circumvent the rules by dubious methods in order to influence the outcome in their favor. But cheat? NEVER!
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/27/18 03:54 PM

http://www.totalprosports.com/2018/02/24...ents-fts-video/

not exactly NFL but if we were to have a NBA cheating thread it would go on for years.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/27/18 05:06 PM

smile
Posted By: Sinatra Fan

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/27/18 05:07 PM

NCAA Division I basketball is looking like pretty fertile ground for bending the rules lately. Or maybe they're finally catching them.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/28/18 08:10 PM

I wonder what type of cheating will be allowed when Vince McMahon rolls out his updated professional football league in 2019? After all, WWE is all about the cheating...
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/28/18 08:47 PM

PED's
Posted By: GuitarDude

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 02/28/18 10:42 PM

Everyone smells what the Rock is cookin' but it turns out he has a personal chef.

Diamond Dallas Page is actually cubic zirconium.

The Iron Sheik turns out to be aluminum.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/01/18 08:59 PM

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/x-ra...&ocid=ientp
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/05/18 02:21 PM

saw on the weather channel this morning the coverage of the flooding in New England from the latest winter storm and the 3rd highest tide on record. One of the locals they were interviewing was wearing a Patriots hoodie. I can only conclude from this story that the Patriots were responsible for the high water and flooding...

Man, that team just can't catch a break - they are responsible for everything bad...

on to serious matters, over 500,000 people remain without power from this storm, no doubt many of our BOL friends are caught up in this mess. Hope the storm moves quickly and they get power back soon.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/28/18 11:05 AM

more on the tampering of the ball that has gripped the nation

http://www.nydailynews.com/newswires/spo...ticle-1.3900662
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/28/18 03:40 PM

NFL changed rules on the fly for SB LII even though the rule hadn't actually changed. Application of the catch replay rule was different for the Super Bowl than it was for the rest of the season. Both replays, applied with the new rule language (even though it wasn't the rule) negatively impacted the Patriots. Not saying it cost them the game, but it was a factor and should NOT have been changed on the fly without any notice.
Posted By: RockChucker, CAMS

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/28/18 04:42 PM

I'm glad the rule changed but if a rule is going to be changed it should be done by announcing it first. That said, I was under the impression that the plays in the Super Bowl were called according to the rules in play at that time. At least I recall the announcers talking about the rules and then watching the clips and they appeared to make the correct call. Note: I enjoy football but I don't watch more than 2 to 6 games in the entire year.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/28/18 08:52 PM

Originally Posted By BeechFlyboy
NFL changed rules on the fly for SB LII even though the rule hadn't actually changed. Application of the catch replay rule was different for the Super Bowl than it was for the rest of the season. Both replays, applied with the new rule language (even though it wasn't the rule) negatively impacted the Patriots. Not saying it cost them the game, but it was a factor and should NOT have been changed on the fly without any notice.


so if i understand what you are saying, the NFL "deflated" the Patriots chance for victory? The NFL should come down from their rareified "air" and treat the Patriots fairly? The Patriots were a little "pumped up" for the game?
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/29/18 11:52 AM

Nah, all of that wordplay is too subtle. I'm just saying that Goodell took yet another opportunity to stick it to the Patriots. One has to wonder if the "on-the-fly" rule change would have still been enforced if it was to the benefit of the Patriots.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/29/18 12:29 PM

I think that Jerry Jones is now number one on Goodells list overtaking Kraft
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/10/18 05:16 PM

not the nfl but

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/balco-founder-calls-mark-mcgwire%e2%80%99s-ped-free-claim-%e2%80%98deluded%e2%80%99/ar-AAvGTvj?ocid=ientp
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 08/23/18 01:26 PM

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/r...jrKF?ocid=ientp
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 08/23/18 02:22 PM

i delete text messages after i've read them, i have none that are more than a week old. even recurring messages in groups or for family members are deleted at least weekly to keep memory eating clutter at a minimum...guess if anyone were to ever want to look at my phone i'd be "guilty of cover up" as well...oh, i also delete my voice mails, call logs, etc at least once a week.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/21/18 08:20 PM

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bs-sp-violation-20180920-story.html
"The Ravens are in the same class as the New England Patriots when it comes to cheating.

That’s the general perception now after the NFL fined the team $200,000 on Wednesday for a violation of the Coach-To-Player Communications policy. That rule prohibits the use of headset equipment by multiple players during games and the Ravens apparently violated the policy in a 2018 preseason game."
Posted By: LiveFunLife

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/25/18 04:37 PM

I have my phone set up to delete at 1 year. I also lock and save ones that I like so I don't see that as much of a big deal. The problem is if he is doing something bad he needs to be caught and strung up.

Cheating is always a big deal. It is funny to see someone who was so anti cheating now just cheating....
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/25/18 06:25 PM

everyone is anti-cheating until they get caught, then it was just a misunderstanding...
Posted By: LiveFunLife

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/25/18 06:57 PM

Certainly that is how it has happened to me in the past...
Posted By: DeeQ

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 09/26/18 07:50 PM

Originally Posted By LiveFunLife
Certainly that is how it has happened to me in the past...
shocked wink
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/01/19 09:25 PM

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/top-ranke...-fertility-drug
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/16/19 05:53 PM

Hate to bring this thread back but

https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...by-patriots-staffer-bengals-browns-game/

It must have been a mistake as they would never cheat against a team with a loosing record... well except the Jets.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/16/19 06:46 PM

I have to say, I lost the over under on when you would post about this.
Posted By: DeeQ

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/16/19 07:38 PM

laugh @ sox, at least I am up $20...
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/16/19 07:44 PM

Do you take Bitcoin?
Posted By: raitchjay

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/16/19 08:30 PM

I'm *virtually* certain she does not.
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 12/16/19 09:35 PM

Nothin' to see here. Move along.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 01/06/20 02:11 PM

They should have taped the Titans game
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 01/06/20 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by TB 12
They should have taped the Titans game

Not even sure that would have helped.
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 03/17/20 05:49 PM

during off season training, Tom Brady saw a clip of NE management stating he was not going to have his contract renewed...guess those guys film everything...and just slipped it unobtrusively into Tom's pre-season game day preparation...
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/23/20 06:50 PM

Some things never change

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...es-other-potential-problems/?partner=MSN

For all you patriot fans at least it is not an anti-patriot post.
Posted By: Florist Gump

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/23/20 09:14 PM

I hope it's not off-color to think this story is hilarious.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/28/20 03:43 PM

That cheater is no longer our problem.
Posted By: RockChucker, CAMS

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/28/20 04:00 PM

Bitter much?
Posted By: TB 12

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/28/20 05:15 PM

I'm sorry.. I guess my sarcasm was lost on you...

Good for him getting the money. He should do well in Tampa.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/28/20 05:39 PM

The NFL has ruled that it was not a violation of the Brady NFL rules
Posted By: RockChucker, CAMS

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/28/20 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by TB 12
I'm sorry.. I guess my sarcasm was lost on you...

Good for him getting the money. He should do well in Tampa.


It was, you forgot the sarcasm font wink
Posted By: RVFlyboy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/29/20 01:24 AM

Originally Posted by edAudit
The NFL has ruled that it was not a violation of the Brady NFL rules

It only would have been an NFL violation if he had still been a Patriot. Then they'd have conducted a five week investigation, subpoenaed everyone's cell phones, dock draft picks, suspend players, etc. etc. Goodell is still bitter that Belichick snubbed the Jets to take the Patriots job.
Posted By: MB Guy

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/29/20 01:36 PM

Just so I'm clear, do we all still hate the Patriots, or do we also now hate the Buccaneers as well? Instead of?

Just want to make sure my animosity is directed at the correct entity.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/29/20 01:55 PM

It is ok to hate any team that cheats. If you so believe that TB cheated with this revelation go ahead an hate away. laugh
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 04/29/20 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by MB Guy
Just so I'm clear, do we all still hate the Patriots, or do we also now hate the Buccaneers as well? Instead of?

Just want to make sure my animosity is directed at the correct entity.


this is a NFL state issue so you should consult your local counsel or the local chapter of the "He-Man Patriot's Hater Club".

In my state, the Bucs are a division rival of the Saint's, so the hate is already in place.
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 05/05/20 03:10 PM

https://adage.com/article/cmo-strategy/corona-beer-among-winners-coronavirus-sales-surge/2247211

No charges for accepting payment and not showing or is there money laundering (without Farve's knowledge) taking place?
Posted By: Adam Witmer

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 06/29/20 03:56 PM

https://www.nfl.com/news/patriots-docked-third-round-pick-fined-1-1m-for-filming-bengals-sideline
Posted By: edAudit

Re: More NFL Cheaters (not the Patriots this time) - 06/29/20 04:20 PM

All that and they are "stuck" signing a potential MVP quarterback at the league minimum.