Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math

Posted By: MB Guy

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/27/05 04:13 PM

[..... The truth is, it's not just the way math is being taught in schools that is the problem, it's just a reflexion of the idiots who are hired to work cash registers because there is no other job they are qualified for.

How about spelling???

Just busting your goodies a little, today's my Friday as my vacation starts tomorrow! Whooohoooo!

Posted By: Bengals Fan

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/27/05 04:34 PM

Quote:

[..... The truth is, it's not just the way math is being taught in schools that is the problem, it's just a reflexion of the idiots who are hired to work cash registers because there is no other job they are qualified for.

How about spelling???

Just busting your goodies a little, today's my Friday as my vacation starts tomorrow! Whooohoooo!

Woops! I spent all weekend and yesterday moving in 95 degree plus heat. I'm definately not all here today. Besides, my ability to spell is hindered by all the purposeful mistakes made by corporate America!

Posted By: Midwest Banker

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/27/05 07:19 PM

It's funny, I have run across what I think are "idiots" in all lines of work (customer service particularly), not just math related (and yes, I can make change without a cash register or calculator, can do long division, etc) however, after my experiences in life, I will never begrudge anyone for what they can and cannot do; some things are just beyond people, even simple math.

My spouse cannot do basic algebra without stuggling enormously however he can ace a stats or calculus class; go figure!

All I'm saying with the previous comments is not to be so (what appears) to be judgemental based on someones line of work, no matter what it is!

Posted By: GrapeApe

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/27/05 07:33 PM

But shouldn't these cashiers be able to punch in the cash they received, and the screen tell them how much to return in change?

Posted By: Don_Narup

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/27/05 07:38 PM

Only if they have successfully passed punching 101

Posted By: That Guy

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/27/05 07:40 PM

Sometimes when I was a teller giving out change I would blank out and not have a clue what to give with out thinking about it for a minute or two. Some times even the best of us just have a brain freeze, and the simple becomes impossible. Maybe these people really are that dumb, but possibly you just ran across them at the wrong time. Maybe it's not math related but I bet everyone that's posted here has asked a question about how to do something or about something and when you got the answer you felt like an idiot for not being able to do it. It was something that you should have known.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/27/05 07:56 PM

I have an associate who is a substitute chemistry teacher. He began an assignment with a high school honors chemistry class that he knew would last a few weeks, he gave them a simple quiz to gauge their knowledge so he had a starting point. (He felt that wasting 3 weeks of their time with busy work was a bad idea, and actually intended to teach them)

What's the first thing everyone in the class did? Reach for their calculators. Of course, he made them take the quiz without them. The highest score was a 54%. The rather confused sub showed this to the school principal who took one look, set them down and immediately identified that the students hadn't used their calculators. His suggestion to the sub "Don't take those away, they can't do math without them."

Honors students... seniors... simple addition and subtraction (which chemicals, but that's not too difficult), and they needed calculators.

*Sigh*

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/27/05 08:01 PM

Quote:

I have a bachelors degree in Finance and Economics, I have a Masters in Accounting, I am partially done with my CPA exam, I can do college level Calculus. I have scored in the top 10 percentiles on the ACT, LSAT, and GMAT. Either I'm lucky or I do have some intelligence. But sometimes when I was a teller giving out change I would blank out and not have a clue what to give with out thinking about it for a minute or two. Some times even the best of us just have a brain freeze, and the simple becomes impossible. Maybe these people really are that dumb, but possibly you just ran across them at the wrong time. Maybe it's not math related but I bet everyone that's posted here has asked a question about how to do something or about something and when you got the answer you felt like an idiot for not being able to do it. It was something that you should have known.

Do you pleasure yourself by looking at a mirror too?

Posted By: TX Ladybug

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/27/05 08:06 PM

This conversation is way too funny! My hubbie is a retired H.S. teacher. He often comments on the inability of cashiers to determine the correct amount of change without their register telling them what to do. Frequently, when a young person provides change to him, and they merely count out the amount the cash register told them to return, he asks how he can know if they're giving him the correct amount of change. They get the funniest look on their face and usually sputter "Well, the register calculated it and that's what I gave you." That of course does not satisfy him. He asks again, "but, how do I know that's the correct amount of change?" 90 out of 100 times, they will be absolutely clueless as to what he's talking about, but every once in a while, a bright light bulb appears over their head and they then offer to count the change back properly!

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/27/05 08:15 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I have a bachelors degree in Finance and Economics, I have a Masters in Accounting, I am partially done with my CPA exam, I can do college level Calculus. I have scored in the top 10 percentiles on the ACT, LSAT, and GMAT. Either I'm lucky or I do have some intelligence. But sometimes when I was a teller giving out change I would blank out and not have a clue what to give with out thinking about it for a minute or two. Some times even the best of us just have a brain freeze, and the simple becomes impossible. Maybe these people really are that dumb, but possibly you just ran across them at the wrong time. Maybe it's not math related but I bet everyone that's posted here has asked a question about how to do something or about something and when you got the answer you felt like an idiot for not being able to do it. It was something that you should have known.

Do you pleasure yourself by looking at a mirror too?

LOL

Posted By: Chiquita Banana

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/27/05 08:25 PM

It's not just kids who can't do simple math. How many of you have taken hours trying to balance a customers account? Those people breed. It's not always the kids fault!

Posted By: That Guy

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/27/05 08:53 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I have a bachelors degree in Finance and Economics, I have a Masters in Accounting, I am partially done with my CPA exam, I can do college level Calculus. I have scored in the top 10 percentiles on the ACT, LSAT, and GMAT. Either I'm lucky or I do have some intelligence. But sometimes when I was a teller giving out change I would blank out and not have a clue what to give with out thinking about it for a minute or two. Some times even the best of us just have a brain freeze, and the simple becomes impossible. Maybe these people really are that dumb, but possibly you just ran across them at the wrong time. Maybe it's not math related but I bet everyone that's posted here has asked a question about how to do something or about something and when you got the answer you felt like an idiot for not being able to do it. It was something that you should have known.

Do you pleasure yourself by looking at a mirror too?

I didn't mean it as I think I'm anything special, I'm sure there are far better people than me on this board with far more accomplishments. I just used my own as an example that we all make mistakes even if we are educated, otherwise why would I admit to having those problems occasionally.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/27/05 09:02 PM

Sorry, I was just busting your stones. You should be proud of your accomplishments. I also would hope that you would be doing something important if you got into both, say, Duke Law and NYU Business.

Posted By: That Guy

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/27/05 09:06 PM

Quote:

Sorry, I was just busting your stones. You should be proud of your accomplishments. I also would hope that you would be doing something important if you got into both, say, Duke Law and NYU Business.

I figured, I just didn't want anyone else to take that the wrong way. No I decided agaisnt law school. In September I start a job where I'll be everyones favorite person, the external auditor.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/27/05 09:08 PM

Law school was fun. I played a ton of video games and got hammered from thursday night on. Great time. I can't wait to go to B school to rinse lather and repeat. To your other comment... I bet you are a demon with the ladies Mr. Auditor.

Posted By: That Guy

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/27/05 09:15 PM

Quote:

Law school was fun. I played a ton of video games and got hammered from thursday night on. Great time. I can't wait to go to B school to rinse lather and repeat. To your other comment... I bet you are a demon with the ladies Mr. Auditor.

Not anymore, I got caught by the marriage trap. Now my talents go wasted ........................................................................... (CRY)

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/27/05 09:20 PM

I have got time before I have to worry about that (unless my heathen contraception fails me).

Posted By: Debalex

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/27/05 09:26 PM

When my youngest daughter started kindergarten, I went in to speak to the teacher because I wanted to make sure that she get additional math homework. My daughter happens to love math and was already doing some "advanced" math by the time she entered kindergarten. So, I asked the teacher to try to give her some more advanced problems because sitting in class while the other children learned to count and write their numbers was going to bore her to tears. The teacher's response was to look at me in horror and say, "But, I'm not good at math!" Basically, this teacher felt that she couldn't do math well enough to keep up with a fairly bright 5 year old. She made no attempt to give Claudia additional problems. When I complained to the principal I was told that kindergarten was for "socialization" and I shouldn't worry about her learning anything new. I tutor her at home in math and she is still well in advance of her class (now going into 4th grade) but the school still doesn't get it. My state is only interested in reading scores and math just gets shoved aside until the older grades when the state starts to grade schools on math scores.

Posted By: That Guy

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/27/05 09:58 PM

I do think that public schooling does need to be upgraded. Were pumping so much money into higher education but it seems people are forgetting everything else. Even when money does go to public schools it seems all it's used for is new football uniforms or an upgrade to the softball complex. Personally I would love to see a basic economics course and a basic financial planning course added to the high school curriculum. But we're still working on bringing the theory of evolution to Kansas so I don't see my ideas happening anytime soon.

Posted By: Snowgirl

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/27/05 10:02 PM

Debalex: I understand your frustration - the same thing happened to me with my daughter last year in the 3rd grade. My daughter doesn't absolutely love math, but it comes really easy to her - so I asked the teacher to send home some extra work for her to work on her math and she refused. She said she is right where she needs to be. I didn't complain to the principal - but I wish her teacher would have complied with my request. Most of the other students were taking home home-work daily because they did not get their work completed and she told me that my daughter should feel lucky to not have to do homework. Another reason I was wanting to "boost" her in math is my older daughter struggled when reaching the 5th grade level math (and still does) and I think it is because of the "new" math and the way it is being taught now. I thought if my third grader was a little ahead it would help her when she reached that jump in 5th grade.

Posted By: pjs

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/28/05 12:23 PM

It's frustrating to have teachers teaching math when they don't have the credentials to do it. Back in high school algebra was a nightmare for me and I'm embarassed to say I barely survived that nightmare. Anyhow found out later that the teacher didn't even know what he was doing- he didn't last long.
My daughter loved math- and did very well in math- 6th grade came along and she went from A's to C's and D's in math. She told me she hated math and that she couldn'tunderstand her teacher etc. I tried to solve the problem and again found out later that the teacher hated math and it was her worse subject to teach per her.
Math is no longer my daughters' favorite subject.

Posted By: thomasj

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/28/05 12:34 PM

We have seen budget cuts and consolidations at our schools in the past few months that have resulted in a Phys. Ed. teacher who should have retired several years ago being placed as an elementary math teacher. He had the years in to bump other more qualified teachers out. The guy has been a gym teacher for 30+ years and will now go to teaching math. I am glad my daughter is past elementary and hopefully he will retire before my son goes to school.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/28/05 01:37 PM

Tis true. Even Einstein flunked out of math. Of course, it was probably just boring to him.

Posted By: SteelBallsPat

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/28/05 01:52 PM

In my opinion, public school administration usually just sucks. In my town, the school won't pay for special education for my 3 autistic siblings. It's kind of ridiculous when my brother is in high school and he can't read. They just pass them along through the system.

Posted By: Vee

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/28/05 02:36 PM

Do I ever feel fortunate. After reading these posts I realize what I already thought is true. We have an awesome school system. My kids have excelled and are encouraged to do so. Not only that the school systems lets our bank go to the school every Thursday and we do "Knights Bank". The kids make deposits and we post them to each student and at the end of the year each student gets their money back. The interest is matched by the bank and donated to the school. Loads of fun!!!!!!! The kids learn about saving and it is great for CRA.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/28/05 03:41 PM

Part of the problem for the school systems comes from lack of parenting and the need for all students to "feel good". My mother is a teacher, and began teaching me to do the basics at a very early age. By the time I hit Pre-School, and even K-3 grades, I was ahead of the other kids my age. At that time, this was not an issue, as we used to have the IPI series of texts. This involved Pre-tests, skills sets, and post tests. You went to the large green file with little trays, pulled out the pre-test, and if you passed it, you went on to the next area. No need to sit through what you already knew. I loved it.

Then came fourth grade, political correctness, and budget cuts. Everyone was thrown into the same group of reading, and I was stuck with kids that couldn't (or didn't want to) do anything that resembled learning. At that point I started goofing off, becoming a clown, pest, etc.

We had 3 special education teachers, but no one to let the faster kids go on and learn. They were afraid the slower students wouldn't feel good about themselves. PLEASE! Life isn't about everyone feeling good. There are winners and losers.

It never helped that my mother went in and asked for extra work for me (not that I wanted extra BUSY work, but I did want to explore new things not available in our smaller school, and this was pre-internet). The teachers didn't really want to have the extra work to deal with.

Everyone has their place in life. Some are faster, bigger, stronger, etc. Take what you are given and go with it. But if the schools keep holding back the intelligent kids in school so the slower ones feel better, we are only hurting ourselves. I say have more accelerated learning classes (I hate the term "gifted"), and less special needs classes.

To the Anon poster about law school behavior patterns - AMEN to that. Except we started ususally on Tuesday night, lap-tops were new so no video games in class, but I did have a $10 Radio Shack blackjack game that was hidden behind my book most of the time. I look back and wonder how I passed.

Posted By: bluebanker

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/28/05 03:53 PM

Quote:

Personally I would love to see a basic economics course and a basic financial planning course added to the high school curriculum.

Here in Illinois, it's a requirement that every high school senior take economics. I know that when I took micro and macro in college, I was well prepared. In micro, there actually wasn't anything really new that we hadn't gone over in high school. It's hard to learn exactly what we went over but I think there was stuff about checkbooks and budgets as well as some basic stock market stuff. I think all states should be that way!

Posted By: That Guy

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/28/05 04:58 PM

Quote:

We have seen budget cuts and consolidations at our schools in the past few months that have resulted in a Phys. Ed. teacher who should have retired several years ago being placed as an elementary math teacher. He had the years in to bump other more qualified teachers out. The guy has been a gym teacher for 30+ years and will now go to teaching math. I am glad my daughter is past elementary and hopefully he will retire before my son goes to school.

Probably a minimum of half the teachers where I went to high school were coaches or assistant coaches for a sport. Lets see I learned biology from the assistant football coach, algebra from the girls softball coach, history from the the girls basketball coach, Trig from the boys basketball coach, and the list goes on. I wondered how big of a conflict of interest there was when the coach was his player's teacher.

Posted By: WildTurkey

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/28/05 06:22 PM

Quote:

Debalex: I understand your frustration - the same thing happened to me .....

a very similar thing happened to me personally, regarding reading, and that was over 30 years ago! I was seven years old (British 3rd grade), when my teacher told me that I was "reading too fast", and so she stopped me from taking my reading book home.

My mother was not going to take that, so she went to see the principal. He told her "Mrs Turkey, you are a very ambitious woman", as if that was supposed to be an insult!

.... He was something of a socialist, in a city with a notoriously hard-line socialist council. Not long after that my family moved, .... to an area with a more traditional attitude to education, that wanted to see students achieve their potential.

Posted By: SteelBallsPat

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/28/05 06:46 PM

Quote:

Quote:

We have seen budget cuts and consolidations at our schools in the past few months that have resulted in a Phys. Ed. teacher who should have retired several years ago being placed as an elementary math teacher. He had the years in to bump other more qualified teachers out. The guy has been a gym teacher for 30+ years and will now go to teaching math. I am glad my daughter is past elementary and hopefully he will retire before my son goes to school.

Probably a minimum of half the teachers where I went to high school were coaches or assistant coaches for a sport. Lets see I learned biology from the assistant football coach, algebra from the girls softball coach, history from the the girls basketball coach, Trig from the boys basketball coach, and the list goes on. I wondered how big of a conflict of interest there was when the coach was his player's teacher.

I had a lot of that in my school today. This definitely affected how certain students were treated and how the classroom was run...but often times in my favor.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/28/05 06:49 PM

I think if you can't coach something then you don't teach something in most schools today.

Posted By: That Guy

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/28/05 07:04 PM

I did read that test scores were up for younger students. Some say this is evidence that Bush's no child left behind act is strating to show results. One of the few things I really liked about Bush was that before all the 9/11 stuff happened he was really education focused.

I played sports as well in high school so I don't want to be seen as one of those guys who was a nerd and thinks all Jocks are evil. But I really do scratch my head at how much money is spent on sports in school. I know they are important but sometimes I think as a nation we're more concerned with turning out great athletes instead of artists or thinkers.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/28/05 07:13 PM

I would like to agree That Guy.

But, the rising test scores are proof that kids can pass a test. They are not taught how to read, write, do basic math, or apply concepts. They are taught to do well on a test and nothing more.

Posted By: That Guy

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/28/05 07:20 PM

it's better than nothing.

Posted By: tahdah

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/28/05 07:41 PM

My son struggles in math and here's why, 4th grade teacher left second semester on maternity leave so they had substitutes the rest of the year, 5th grade teacher had cancer, substitutes for almost the entire year, 6th grade school system started "new" math for middle school. Teacher tells kids it's stupid, she recommended they NOT use this math and she didn't understand it. Gave my kid the perfect reason to not try. So now we pay Kumon for tutoring. DAD and Debalex if you want your kids to get ahead in math I suggest you go to a Kumon center. Many people especially of Indian decent, take their extrememly talented math kids to Kumon. It only offers math and reading.

Posted By: thomasj

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/28/05 09:21 PM

I have to disagree with the comment on no child left behind. From what I have seen personally and what I have heard from others, the teachers (at least in this area) have stopped teaching the fundamentals and are teaching kids how to pass a specific test. I was shocked when we went to parent visitation and saw a math teacher tell a child, yes you got the right answer, but you need to say it this way so that you will get it right on the test. They were spending more time focusing on making sure that they knew how to format the answer on the test than they did discussing how to get the right answer in the first place.

Posted By: tahdah

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/29/05 02:11 AM

Thomasj, I completly agree. No child left behind is a joke. If Bush was sincere, teachers across this Country would be paid the same wage and have the same tools to teach kids. His agenda is just a political ploy. You are right, kids are now taught how to take a test, not how to figure out a problem. My kid says that his Kumon teachers do not teach like his public teachers, thats because they (Kumon) teach you to think out the problem. Teachers in Public teach to the test, at least that's been my experience. I'm not trying to degrade teachers, just saying what I'm seeing. I have several family members as well as numerous friends that are teachers and they all say the same. They are really frustrated with the "no child left behind" agenda. They say they are not getting any support from the Bush camp in this agenda. So bash away at me, those that support Bush, but the teachers I know say it's not working.

Posted By: JacF

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/29/05 03:46 AM

Quote:

I have to disagree with the comment on no child left behind. From what I have seen personally and what I have heard from others, the teachers (at least in this area) have stopped teaching the fundamentals and are teaching kids how to pass a specific test. I was shocked when we went to parent visitation and saw a math teacher tell a child, yes you got the right answer, but you need to say it this way so that you will get it right on the test. They were spending more time focusing on making sure that they knew how to format the answer on the test than they did discussing how to get the right answer in the first place.

I have seen this happen first hand, and have let the school know point blank that not allowing the children to use traditional arithmetic methods is absurd. A couple of veteran teachers were quick to agree with me, but more or less said their hands are tied, and blamed the state (which may be vaild, as you and I are witnessing the same thing).

Where it really gets interesting is when they give the students these standardized tests to identify any 'special needs' or 'learning disabilities'. My oldest daughter can't make heads or tails of the math that they're teaching (she does well when she's allowed to do math the right way), and scored pretty poorly on the test (this was during 2nd grade). So now she officially has a 'learning disability', and is entitled to an IEP. As a result, she can get certain types of help with the standardized tests, and she gets some of her classroom instruction in an 'alternate' classroom setting for kids with similar 'disabilities'. And what do they teach in this setting? Traditional math! Phonics! Basically, the stuff they removed from the mainstream classrooms.

Well, her test scores did improve quickly and significantly, until a new absurdity reared its head. Fast forward a couple of years to 4th grade, and she starts bringing home multiplication problems, complete with bizarre instructions, and just doesn't get it. Now, I make it a point to keep up with my childrens' academics, but I found myself wondering if I had missed the point where she was given 'times tables' to study. She had never heard of them. I checked with my 3rd grader, to see if they got times tables then. Nope.

Similarly, I had much the same experience last year when we had our foster daughter. Now her dilema was a little different, as she basically went from her mother doing her homework for her, thus teaching her nothing, to her aunt offering no help whatsoever. As a result, she was horribly behind in her reading and vocabulary (her math wasn't so hot, either.) Well, she didn't hit the target scores on the tests, so she's got a 'learning disability' too, when in reality, she just needs to catch up.

After making these observations, and reading some local press about the increased enrollment in special education programs in area schools, I am convinced that this is an engineered problem. Why? The first is NCLB. The schools are terrified of not making the grade, so to speak, and are no longer equipped to educate the children properly, so the only way the can pass is by gaming the system. The second is to get whatever funding they can for the special education programs. And the third is simply to justify the existence of all of the learning support and special education teachers.

At this point, I'm not sure if the best way to solve this problem is to run for office in Harrisburg, or on the school board....

Posted By: Fraudman CFCI

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/29/05 03:53 AM

What a sad way to treat children!

Posted By: Kathleen O. Blanchard

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/29/05 04:26 AM

It's not just PA (where I also live). There was an article in the NY Times recently about how teachers are teaching "formulas" for creative writing because the tests require certain number of sentences in each "section" of the creative writing paper. Each students' paper gets laid out exactly the same way, same number of sentences etc because that is how the test is graded. The teachers said they take courses on great ways to teach creative writing etc but can't use them because they have to "teach to the test".

What a mess.

Posted By: That Guy

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/29/05 06:34 AM

Quote:

I did read that test scores were up for younger students. Some say this is evidence that Bush's no child left behind act is strating to show results. One of the few things I really liked about Bush was that before all the 9/11 stuff happened he was really education focused.

Perhaps I should clarify what I ment, The test was a random sample of 9, 13, and 17 year olds conducted by the National Assessment of Educational Progress which has been doing this since the early 70's. What happened was that the 9 year old group managed to record thier highest scores since the test was started in both math and reading. Also that the gap between scores of whites and minorities narrowed. People say this could be due to the influence of NCLB since it focuses mainly on the younger age groups.

Posted By: thomasj

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/29/05 01:00 PM

I am concerned that all of these children are being taught to "do it this way to pass the test" and not being taught to think. When I was in school when two or three students arrived at the correct answer but used differnet logic to get there they were all correct and the teacher encouraged them for using a different thought process. Creativity will be suffer and everyone will be thinking the same - scary thought isn't it.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/29/05 02:11 PM

want to hear a brilliant story. When I was in 1st grade tmy school disctrict decided to try an experiment into different ways to teach kids how to spell. The plan was this: In first and second grade, let them spell however they want, don't correct them. I have a distinct memory of raising my hand while writing a story in grade to ask my teacher how to spell "our" She said, "how do you think it is spelled?" I thought for a minute. "um, R" "okay," she said "spell it like that. They even still had spelling tests, and yes, we could spell the words however we felt they should be spelled. In third grade I moved into another part of the state so I will never know how the rest of the experiment went, but to this day I have no comprehention of proper spelling. I have to copy and paste everything to a word doc. and spell check it before I submit anything.

Doesn't that p*ss you off, it does me.

Posted By: waldensouth

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/29/05 03:35 PM

That was a very popular way to teach spelling and reading for a while. Can't remember what it's called, but the High School teachers here remember that class of students with horror.

Posted By: Erl of Baltimore

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/29/05 03:40 PM

I think it was referred to as spelling phonetically. You know, spell it like it sounds. Made for some interesting thank you letters from the kids.

Posted By: tahdah

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/29/05 06:17 PM

They tried that phoentical spelling here for a while. It was of course a major disaster, just like the middle school math we just got out of. By the way, they determined that this group of 8th graders that had it for 6th, 7th and 8th, did horrible and the district is reverting to the old math program.

Posted By: Snowqueen

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/29/05 06:34 PM

There are many very good teachers and there are some not so good teachers. The teachers who are not so good are protected by tenure. If your child ends up with a few not so good teachers throughout their school years it can be very difficult to "catch up".

Even when I went to school there were a couple older teachers in high school who would fall asleep during class. Is that okay? No, but they didn't lose their jobs and the kids didn't learn.

A couple friends of mine are teachers and have openly discussed the no child left behind program. They claim it is a paperwork nightmare and it is not beneficial for most students.

Math is one of the subjects that a person uses for their entire life along with reading and writing. The three R's.

Posted By: Banking Bard

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/29/05 06:53 PM

Quote:

By the way, they determined that this group of 8th graders that had it for 6th, 7th and 8th, did horrible and the district is reverting to the old math program.

So basically, they've turned out an entire group of kids who won't be able to do math properly just to experiment? It saddens me that at some level, the people who make decisions are harming the future potential and lives of these children is considered acceptable to see if something works.

Why not treat this like the FDA does new medicines and require a certain amount of testing before you turn it loose on the populace? Though the idea of teaching mice this new math is pretty amusing.

I realize that a number of these kids will be able to overcome this and go on to be successful, just like some of the people here who seem to have done OK, but how many of them won't? How many of those 8th graders in 4 years or so are going to be working a fast food register, unable to count change on their own, because they simply aren't able to qualify for anything else as a result of the poor math and reading skills that result from this experimentation?

Posted By: WildTurkey

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/29/05 07:01 PM

Quote:

I am concerned that all of these children are being taught to "do it this way to pass the test" and not being taught to think. .....

Thinking may be important, but so is "doing it this way" - pure creativity is for art, limited creativity is for languanges (using proper spelling, and grammatical constructions), however science, math, history, and geography are factual subjects, creativity has no place, nor has what you think. As far as science and math go, most of the thinking has been done already, what needs to be learned are the "facts", the "how", and the "why", how you "feel" about things will only lead to a further slide in educational standards.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/29/05 07:10 PM

I wish I could get a Whopper for $1.58. Where is that? Must have been 1979?

Posted By: That Guy

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/29/05 07:19 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I am concerned that all of these children are being taught to "do it this way to pass the test" and not being taught to think. .....

Thinking may be important, but so is "doing it this way" - pure creativity is for art, limited creativity is for languanges (using proper spelling, and grammatical constructions), however science, math, history, and geography are factual subjects, creativity has no place, nor has what you think. As far as science and math go, most of the thinking has been done already, what needs to be learned are the "facts", the "how", and the "why", how you "feel" about things will only lead to a further slide in educational standards.

I disagree, I think creative thinking does have a place in math and especially science. If we always think about our world in the same ways then science will suffer. Creativity allows one to consider a problem in a new light or consider possiblities that haven't been thought of before. What about the processs of invention, that definitly requires creativity. Even in math we can benefit by people thinking outside the box when trying to work out a problem.

Posted By: Banking Bard

Re: Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math - 07/29/05 07:38 PM

Critical thinking about a math problem on a test is different from creative thinking. On the test, you have to do it a certain way to get credit, it's true that there's not a lot of creativity there. However, if you understand the fundamentals, you can use critical thinking to work through word problems. This is the sort of thinking that I believe thomasj was referring to.

Understanding why sometihng is done, rather than just learning the tricks to get it done. Kids then learn to recognize test patterns, but not the sort of critical thinking that's going to get them through college math or real life. Suprisingly, real life seldom concerns itself with how many apples John has.

Why Kids Today Cannot Do Simple Math