Finally...

Posted By: Anonymous

Finally... - 04/26/06 06:11 PM

...Another excuse to talk about this -- again.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 06:24 PM

I was just about to make a post in regards to this.... just makes me sick (about our legal system) that they are even considering this. Maybe they should spend a few hundred million dollars on testing and research to determine exactly how much "pain and suffering" these convicts actually experience while being lethally injected...if they havent already. Maybe they should do it in the least expensive way possible.....Oh wait that would be considered total disregard for a human life right?? So what they did to their "victims" and families of their victims just gets thrown out the window and fogotten right??
Posted By: Retired DQ

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 06:26 PM

You know, I am sick of all the rights these criminals have. Geez, you did something wrong, and if it is so wrong that you may have to pay for it with your life, tough doo-doo. Enough is enough.
Posted By: Bimmer

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 06:28 PM

Bring back the firing squad!!!!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 06:29 PM

Quote:

I was just about to make a post in regards to this.... just makes me sick (about our legal system) that they are even considering this. Maybe they should spend a few hundred million dollars on testing and research to determine exactly how much "pain and suffering" these convicts actually experience while being lethally injected...if they havent already. Maybe they should do it in the least expensive way possible.....Oh wait that would be considered total disregard for a human life right?? So what they did to their "victims" and families of their victims just gets thrown out the window and fogotten right??



i'll start by answering like this:
veternarians stopped using this same method to euthanize animals years ago because it was incredibly painful for them. unlike animals, we as citizens have a constitution that protects us from cruel and unusual punishment-- regardless if you think a person deserves it. we do not use vigilante justice here in this society although you may want us to.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 06:30 PM

Quote:

Bring back the firing squad!!!!!



i realize you were being flip but the firing squad may be more humane than lethal injection.
Posted By: Carly Girl

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 06:32 PM

What about the "pain and suffering" their victims went through? Does that not account for anything? Criminals have more rights than we do and something about that is just not right.

If they dont like it, then they shouldnt put themselves in that position!!!
Posted By: HappyGilmore

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 06:33 PM

unreg - I guess you don't see the irony, the law allows us to kill someone (oh, sorry, end their life legally), but we better do it in a humane way.

As far as vets, I think the method that many employ (placing the animal in what becomes a vaccuum so they suffocate) can hardly be considered humane.
Posted By: Carly Girl

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 06:33 PM

the could always go back to a good old fashioned hanging. Then maybe they wont complain.
Posted By: Bimmer

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 06:34 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Bring back the firing squad!!!!!



i realize you were being flip but the firing squad may be more humane than lethal injection.




Actually I was being serious!

Ya know, over in China, if you are on death row, you have no idea when you are going to die, neither does your family, the press, the public, etc... They just come get you one day and your done. That's it. No people gathering around to watch, no protests going on outside the prison. You could be sitting there for a week or two years.
Posted By: QCL

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 06:41 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Bring back the firing squad!!!!!



i realize you were being flip but the firing squad may be more humane than lethal injection.



How do you know?
Are the pending lawsuits based on the theory that there might be pain? And what sort of pain? Like stub your toe pain, or like rip off your toe nail pain? Does it actually hurt at all to get lethal injection?

Or are we all arguing about a theory again. The theory that it might hurt - being used by the inmates to stall the sentence given out by a jury – vs the theory that it doesn’t. And while I am concerned about victims rights, if this is the sentence that a jury has handed down it was probably not decieded on lightly, and why must we keep circumventing the legal system?

Rant over.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 06:42 PM

me versus everyone... i like my odds here goes:

that girl: nobody is saying these people aren't creeps and that they did something unthinkable to us. however, we are all still citizens and we have rights. one of those rights is to be free from the government using cruel and unusual punishment on its citizens. like i said before, our society does not condone vigilante justice... except on TV shows. and hanging could be more humane than lethal injection. unless everything isn't done correctly and the individual suffocates to death.

happy: presently the law allows 'the state' to kill citizens but there is not 'right to the DP for the state'. so no, i don't see irony, i see a nation that is an anachronism to all of its peers in the western world. perhaps what becomes of this case is a realization that the constitution will have to be amended to keep the DP.
and my understanding was that animals used to be euthanized under the exact same process using the same chemicals as are used in lethal injections for criminals. i am unfamiliar with vets ever placing animals in a vacuum (although i bet i did not understand what you meant in your post)
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 06:44 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Bring back the firing squad!!!!!



i realize you were being flip but the firing squad may be more humane than lethal injection.




Actually I was being serious!

Ya know, over in China, if you are on death row, you have no idea when you are going to die, neither does your family, the press, the public, etc... They just come get you one day and your done. That's it. No people gathering around to watch, no protests going on outside the prison. You could be sitting there for a week or two years.



i am surprised that a proud conservative advocates having us all become 'comrades'
Posted By: MichelleDawn

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 06:45 PM

Quote:

Criminals have more rights than we do




Completely untrue. When you are in jail (even those not on death row) you lose many, many rights that free citizens have. If you want the death penalty then just say so and don't make untrue statements about criminals having more rights than the rest of us.
Posted By: Bimmer

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 06:47 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Bring back the firing squad!!!!!



i realize you were being flip but the firing squad may be more humane than lethal injection.




Actually I was being serious!

Ya know, over in China, if you are on death row, you have no idea when you are going to die, neither does your family, the press, the public, etc... They just come get you one day and your done. That's it. No people gathering around to watch, no protests going on outside the prison. You could be sitting there for a week or two years.



i am surprised that a proud conservative advocates having us all become 'comrades'




I just can't stand the fact that everytime someone is about to be put to death, there are constant protests, the media is all over it and it just gets a bit ridiculous!
Posted By: MichelleDawn

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 06:48 PM

Ron,

Did you see the Death Penalty/Robert Kennedy Project special on Court TV? Very compelling.
Posted By: MichelleDawn

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 06:49 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Bring back the firing squad!!!!!



i realize you were being flip but the firing squad may be more humane than lethal injection.




Actually I was being serious!

Ya know, over in China, if you are on death row, you have no idea when you are going to die, neither does your family, the press, the public, etc... They just come get you one day and your done. That's it. No people gathering around to watch, no protests going on outside the prison. You could be sitting there for a week or two years.



i am surprised that a proud conservative advocates having us all become 'comrades'




I just can't stand the fact that everytime someone is about to be put to death, there are constant protests, the media is all over it and it just gets a bit ridiculous!




But you are OK with the people who stand outside chanting "burn in [censored]"?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 06:49 PM

Quote:


How do you know?
Are the pending lawsuits based on the theory that there might be pain? And what sort of pain? Like stub your toe pain, or like rip off your toe nail pain? Does it actually hurt at all to get lethal injection?



like i said, vets stopped using this exact process years ago because of the agony it put the animals in. oh sure, the inmates are given a medication to relax their muscles but this is for witness' purposes, not the inmates.

Quote:

The theory that it might hurt - being used by the inmates to stall the sentence given out by a jury – vs the theory that it doesn’t. And while I am concerned about victims rights, if this is the sentence that a jury has handed down it was probably not decieded on lightly, and why must we keep circumventing the legal system?



the reason is that the constitution prohibits cruel and unusual punishment. it does not require an eye for an eye.
Posted By: slick

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 06:49 PM

ya know, the death penalty has been around for how long now?? and all kinds too...hangings, firing squad, beheadings, electric chair, lethal injection.....all the anti DP people should get used to it. they do the crime, they pay the price for it...eye for an eye..ya know?
Posted By: Blade Scrapper

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 06:50 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Bring back the firing squad!!!!!



i realize you were being flip but the firing squad may be more humane than lethal injection.




Actually I was being serious!

Ya know, over in China, if you are on death row, you have no idea when you are going to die, neither does your family, the press, the public, etc... They just come get you one day and your done. That's it. No people gathering around to watch, no protests going on outside the prison. You could be sitting there for a week or two years.


Even better, they charge the family for the cost of the bullets.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 06:51 PM

Quote:

When you are in jail (even those not on death row) you lose many, many rights that free citizens have.




Really? Thanks for enlightening us Sweetpeas!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 06:54 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Bring back the firing squad!!!!!



i realize you were being flip but the firing squad may be more humane than lethal injection.




Actually I was being serious!

Ya know, over in China, if you are on death row, you have no idea when you are going to die, neither does your family, the press, the public, etc... They just come get you one day and your done. That's it. No people gathering around to watch, no protests going on outside the prison. You could be sitting there for a week or two years.



i am surprised that a proud conservative advocates having us all become 'comrades'




I just can't stand the fact that everytime someone is about to be put to death, there are constant protests, the media is all over it and it just gets a bit ridiculous!




But you are OK with the people who stand outside chanting "burn in [censored]"?




There you go putting your words in other people's mouths! When did Bimmer say this? Don't try to respond with "it's a question, not a statement". You are inferring that Bimmer thinks it's o.k. (whether he does or not is beside the point).
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 06:56 PM

Quote:

Ron,

Did you see the Death Penalty/Robert Kennedy Project special on Court TV? Very compelling.



no. i don't think i need any more ammunition anyway
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 06:56 PM

We had hangings in Delaware on the books until 1996. At least that's when the last person was hanged.

Bring them back!

My question is: How do they know how much lethal injection hurts? No one has survived it, correct?
Posted By: slick

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 06:57 PM

isn't leathal injection better than the chair?
so just what exactly is a good way to die??
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 06:58 PM

Quote:

ya know, the death penalty has been around for how long now?? and all kinds too...hangings, firing squad, beheadings, electric chair, lethal injection.....all the anti DP people should get used to it. they do the crime, they pay the price for it...eye for an eye..ya know?



where does our constitution say eye for eye? do you also want us to devolve to blacks not being citizens and women being unable to vote, too? as much as many here want it to be (i am waiting on ya'll too ), the constitution isn't a static document.
Posted By: Bimmer

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 06:59 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Bring back the firing squad!!!!!



i realize you were being flip but the firing squad may be more humane than lethal injection.




Actually I was being serious!

Ya know, over in China, if you are on death row, you have no idea when you are going to die, neither does your family, the press, the public, etc... They just come get you one day and your done. That's it. No people gathering around to watch, no protests going on outside the prison. You could be sitting there for a week or two years.



i am surprised that a proud conservative advocates having us all become 'comrades'




I just can't stand the fact that everytime someone is about to be put to death, there are constant protests, the media is all over it and it just gets a bit ridiculous!




But you are OK with the people who stand outside chanting "burn in [censored]"?




NO SP I am not!!! I don't think anyone should be out there! I don't think anyone should be watching it happen either! I am all for the Death Penalty, I am not all for making a public spectacle out of it!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 06:59 PM

....the point is that they were arrested, tried, convicted, and sentenced to death....and now they are crying because it "might" hurt them??? do you belong to PETA too??
Posted By: slick

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:00 PM

where does the constitution say its ok to take someone's life?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:02 PM

Quote:

We had hangings in Delaware on the books until 1996. At least that's when the last person was hanged.

Bring them back!

My question is: How do they know how much lethal injection hurts? No one has survived it, correct?



like i described before, this same method was used to euthanize animals before vets decided it was inhumane. one of the drugs administered in the lethal injection process prevents movements, largely for the benefit of the spectators.
Quote:

isn't leathal injection better than the chair?
so just what exactly is a good way to die??



once again, there is no 'right to kill' granted to the state. BOTH of those methods are inhumane.
Posted By: Hrothgar Geiger

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:03 PM

Quote:

How do you know?
Are the pending lawsuits based on the theory that there might be pain? And what sort of pain? Like stub your toe pain, or like rip off your toe nail pain? Does it actually hurt at all to get lethal injection?




There are three drugs involved in lethal injection; a sedative, an anesthetic and a potassium mixture that causes a massive heart attack. The law suit, as far as I know, is based on information gathered on all the times that lethal injection went, shall we say, awry. They include:
*in some formulations, and over some period of time the sedative and anesthetic will cancel each other out and the inmate becomes conscious just in time for the massive heart attack.
*in some formulations the sedative loses affect within just a few minutes, and again the person is fully conscious.
*the people administering the lethal injection mess up; there are stories of it taking 35 minutes to 'find a vein', drugs being pushed under the skin instead of into the blood stream, needles popping out and so on.

Doctors and nurses do not administer the lethal injections, and doctors did not create the formulation of drugs.

So, yeah, part of the lawsuit is about "theory", but part of it is about the current practice as well.
Posted By: slick

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:04 PM

these criminals have no 'right to kill' either.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:04 PM

Quote:

....the point is that they were arrested, tried, convicted, and sentenced to death....and now they are crying because it "might" hurt them??? do you belong to PETA too??



our constitution prohibits cruel and unusual punishment. putting them to death in the way is what is arguably 'cruel and unusual'. please find me where the state is granted a 'license to kill'.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:05 PM

Oh dear.....imagine that...thats just awful
Posted By: MichelleDawn

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:05 PM

Quote:

NO SP I am not!!! I don't think anyone should be out there! I don't think anyone should be watching it happen either! I am all for the Death Penalty, I am not all for making a public spectacle out of it!




I can respect that. Most aren't as consistent.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:06 PM

B O O H O O................
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:06 PM

Quote:

these criminals have no 'right to kill' either.



so let them be punished. do you think i condone what they did?! the constitution probits the state from punishing them in a 'cruel and unusual' way however.
Posted By: QCL

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:07 PM

AML – So does this mean that anesthesia is given without an anesthesiologists being present? And if they could be present and give the proper dose, thereby making the procedure a “humane” one, would all this discussion be moot? Thank you for providing relevant information to a discussion, [she says sincerely].
Posted By: slick

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:07 PM

the dp has been around too long, i don't think its going anywhere
Posted By: Search_Me

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:09 PM

From my experience of jail ministry... if they (male/female inmates) were on good behavior they still had lots of choice in their freedom as far as being on the inside. Once they commited the crime... they gave up their freedom in the world as citizens.

IMO... jail and prison are not nearly "rough" enough when it comes to discipline and I think that's why our numbers are so numerous...and lessons are never learned.
Posted By: slick

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:10 PM

if someone takes away the 'right to live' from someone else, why should they continue to get that right? they shouldn't..it should be taken away too.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:10 PM

Quote:

the dp has been around too long, i don't think its going anywhere



well, don't count your chickens before they are hatched. like i said, the constitution is adaptive. we don't rewrite it every year. there is a clause in it that speaks directly to this issue. constitutional issues are revisited and redecided all the time you know.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:12 PM

Quote:

if someone takes away the 'right to live' from someone else, why should they continue to get that right? they shouldn't..it should be taken away too.



once again, our society has laws under the constitution. we cannot become vigilantes even if you think it should be done.
Posted By: slick

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:13 PM

i know they are. but i think its gonna stay.

but you argue it out with someone else, i'm going home!
Posted By: Search_Me

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:13 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Bring back the firing squad!!!!!



i realize you were being flip but the firing squad may be more humane than lethal injection.




Actually I was being serious!

Ya know, over in China, if you are on death row, you have no idea when you are going to die, neither does your family, the press, the public, etc... They just come get you one day and your done. That's it. No people gathering around to watch, no protests going on outside the prison. You could be sitting there for a week or two years.



i am surprised that a proud conservative advocates having us all become 'comrades'




I just can't stand the fact that everytime someone is about to be put to death, there are constant protests, the media is all over it and it just gets a bit ridiculous!




But you are OK with the people who stand outside chanting "burn in [censored]"?




NO SP I am not!!! I don't think anyone should be out there! I don't think anyone should be watching it happen either! I am all for the Death Penalty, I am not all for making a public spectacle out of it!




Totally agree!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:14 PM

I dont think anyone is talking about becoming a vigilante
Posted By: Search_Me

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:15 PM

Quote:

Quote:

We had hangings in Delaware on the books until 1996. At least that's when the last person was hanged.

Bring them back!

My question is: How do they know how much lethal injection hurts? No one has survived it, correct?



like i described before, this same method was used to euthanize animals before vets decided it was inhumane. one of the drugs administered in the lethal injection process prevents movements, largely for the benefit of the spectators.
Quote:

isn't leathal injection better than the chair?
so just what exactly is a good way to die??



once again, there is no 'right to kill' granted to the state. BOTH of those methods are inhumane.




So it's okay that this individual killed your mother, sister, brother, father, friend, or whatever... and doesn't get punishment for it?
Posted By: Bimmer

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:17 PM

Why do they wipe your arm with alcohol before giving you a lethal injection???
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:17 PM

Quote:

i know they are. but i think its gonna stay.

but you argue it out with someone else, i'm going home!



you may be right that it is going to stay.

i am not trying to antagonize you, just saying my piece and hopefully doing a little education at the same time.
Posted By: Carly Girl

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:19 PM

I so totally agree with Search and Slick!

Like I said before, if you dont want to be there, then dont put yourself in that position. Its all about freedom of choice!!!!

Like it or not, agree or not, SP, I dont really care, criminals have more rights than we do. Do I have to put "in my opinion" on everything I say? NO.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:19 PM

Quote:

So it's okay that this individual killed your mother, sister, brother, father, friend, or whatever... and doesn't get punishment for it?



point out for me in this thread (or ever) where i said that. in fact, look at my one reply to slick chick.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:22 PM

Quote:

I dont think anyone is talking about becoming a vigilante



then you tell me how do exact the wishes of the people outside the constitution without resorting to vigilantism.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:22 PM

lets give them a nice fluffy pillow to rest their head on while they are being injected too.......maybe some soft music.....
Posted By: Carly Girl

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:24 PM

All these people against the death penalty and lethal injectionm ight change their views if it were a memeber of their family that was killed violently.
Posted By: TB 12

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:24 PM

If lethal injection is to anguishing for these angels, I would guess beheading or firing squad would make it quick and painless. These death row inmates should have thought about this before they murdered their victim(s)...choice responsibility anyone?
Posted By: Hrothgar Geiger

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:25 PM

Quote:

AML – So does this mean that anesthesia is given without an anesthesiologists being present? And if they could be present and give the proper dose, thereby making the procedure a “humane” one, would all this discussion be moot? Thank you for providing relevant information to a discussion, [she says sincerely].




That's correct. Anesthesia is administered without an anesthesiologist. Technically, if doctors 1)formulated the drugs, 2) calibrated them to the condemned prisoner, 3)administered them in a consistent and skillful manner, then I think you're right, this would be a moot point. Right now, though, the AMA's code of professional ethics prohibits its members from participating in executions, which is why they rely on non-medical personnel to administer.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:26 PM

where's Dr Jack??
Posted By: BotV#6

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:26 PM

Quote:

Quote:

if someone takes away the 'right to live' from someone else, why should they continue to get that right? they shouldn't..it should be taken away too.



once again, our society has laws under the constitution. we cannot become vigilantes even if you think it should be done.




The person was tried and convicted. How is the becoming a vigilante? It's not. Therefore, since most states have the death penalty, get it over with. Pain, no pain, there really isn't a difference since the period of time the person suffers is relatively short.
Posted By: MichelleDawn

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:26 PM

Quote:

All these people against the death penalty and lethal injectionm ight change their views if it were a memeber of their family that was killed violently.




And they might not. Robert Kennedy's family asked the judge not to give Sirhan Sirhan the DP. There are groups of victims' families around the country that campaign against the DP.

I would never ask for the DP for my relative and I would certainly hope none of them would ask for it if I were killed.
Posted By: Search_Me

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:27 PM

Quote:

Quote:

So it's okay that this individual killed your mother, sister, brother, father, friend, or whatever... and doesn't get punishment for it?



point out for me in this thread (or ever) where i said that. in fact, look at my one reply to slick chick.




What I'm asking... if the legal system decides DP... then the inmate should not get DP just because it's inhumane and may cause the individual some pain? Where is the justice for the victims and their loved ones? That inmate did not stop and think about the pain and inhumane acts they were doing by killing another human being.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:27 PM

and they'll suffer even less with a soft flufy pillow
Posted By: Hrothgar Geiger

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:27 PM

Quote:

Why do they wipe your arm with alcohol before giving you a lethal injection???




To make the vein come to the surface.
Posted By: D2Xs

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:27 PM

Quote:

so just what exactly is a good way to die??




Heart attack during sex!
Posted By: Search_Me

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:28 PM

Quote:

All these people against the death penalty and lethal injectionm ight change their views if it were a memeber of their family that was killed violently.




My thoughts exactly That Girl.
Posted By: Carly Girl

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:28 PM

Quote:

where's Dr Jack??




good one
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:29 PM

I dont think they would deserve death by sex
Posted By: Search_Me

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:30 PM

Quote:

Quote:

so just what exactly is a good way to die??




Heart attack during sex!




ROFL... LOL..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:30 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

if someone takes away the 'right to live' from someone else, why should they continue to get that right? they shouldn't..it should be taken away too.



once again, our society has laws under the constitution. we cannot become vigilantes even if you think it should be done.




The person was tried and convicted. How is the becoming a vigilante? It's not. Therefore, since most states have the death penalty, get it over with. Pain, no pain, there really isn't a difference since the period of time the person suffers is relatively short.



traveler, this is difficult to understand. just because a state has the death penalty does not make it legal. in this instance, the method of death, as carried out under the state's death penalty law, become illegal under our constitution. the case isn't about the deciding the fate of the death penalty... although it effectively might. 'cruel and unusual' doesn't have a temporal consideration. perhaps the duration of time that the inmate is in pain will become relevant but i have a feeling the decision will not turn on that.
Posted By: Carly Girl

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:31 PM

Quote:

I dont think they would deserve death by sex




Nobody can be that good.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:33 PM

we can all try.......
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:33 PM

Quote:

Quote:

All these people against the death penalty and lethal injectionm ight change their views if it were a memeber of their family that was killed violently.




My thoughts exactly That Girl.



i am sorry if somebody in anybody's family was murdered. but our society is based on the framework of the constitution like it or not.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:34 PM

.....and sex too.....
Posted By: Search_Me

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:34 PM

Well maybe as they lay there in their pain and agony... they'll get a taste of how their victims must've felt when they ended their life.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:34 PM

amen sister.....
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:35 PM

Quote:

If lethal injection is to anguishing for these angels, I would guess beheading or firing squad would make it quick and painless. These death row inmates should have thought about this before they murdered their victim(s)...choice responsibility anyone?



you have a very good point. however, lethal injection was originally viewed as the loophole from 'cruel and unusual' scrutiny.
Posted By: MichelleDawn

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:36 PM

It's also interesting to note that we are among the very last of the "developed" countries to still have the DP.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:37 PM

Quote:

Well maybe as they lay there in their pain and agony... they'll get a taste of how their victims must've felt when they ended their life.



sounds like to revenge to me. our constitution doesn't care about the motivations however. it affects if those motivations will be allowed.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:38 PM

Quote:

It's also interesting to note that we are among the very last of the "developed" countries to still have the DP.



i believe japan is the only other.
Posted By: Bimmer

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:39 PM

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I dont think they would deserve death by sex




Nobody can be that good.




Wanna Bet????
Posted By: Carly Girl

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:40 PM

um, NO.
Posted By: Bimmer

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:41 PM

Quote:

um, NO.




Damn!
Posted By: Search_Me

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:41 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Well maybe as they lay there in their pain and agony... they'll get a taste of how their victims must've felt when they ended their life.



sounds like to revenge to me. our constitution doesn't care about the motivations however. it affects if those motivations will be allowed.




It's not revenge honey... it's justice...
Posted By: MichelleDawn

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:41 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Well maybe as they lay there in their pain and agony... they'll get a taste of how their victims must've felt when they ended their life.



sounds like to revenge to me. our constitution doesn't care about the motivations however. it affects if those motivations will be allowed.




They never cop to that one, but it's certainly revenge.
Posted By: Search_Me

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:42 PM

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Quote:

um, NO.




Damn!




LOL... Too funny...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:42 PM

I LIKE Search
Posted By: Bimmer

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:43 PM

Quote:

I LIKE Search




Me Too!!!
Posted By: Search_Me

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:43 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Well maybe as they lay there in their pain and agony... they'll get a taste of how their victims must've felt when they ended their life.



sounds like to revenge to me. our constitution doesn't care about the motivations however. it affects if those motivations will be allowed.




They never cop to that one, but it's certainly revenge.




Explain your statement: "it's certainly revenge" so I can understand how you gather your opinion.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:43 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Well maybe as they lay there in their pain and agony... they'll get a taste of how their victims must've felt when they ended their life.



sounds like to revenge to me. our constitution doesn't care about the motivations however. it affects if those motivations will be allowed.




It's not revenge honey... it's justice...



you may paint your barn any color you'd like
Posted By: Roger That

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:43 PM

They should be forced to have monkey-sex with my sister-in-law.
Posted By: Search_Me

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:44 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I LIKE Search




Me Too!!!




Aw, you guys are sweet... you're making me blush
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:44 PM

ok.....I dont think anyone deserves that !!
Posted By: Search_Me

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Well maybe as they lay there in their pain and agony... they'll get a taste of how their victims must've felt when they ended their life.



sounds like to revenge to me. our constitution doesn't care about the motivations however. it affects if those motivations will be allowed.




It's not revenge honey... it's justice...



you may paint your barn any color you'd like




You too... this way we can have a colorful world...
Posted By: Search_Me

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:45 PM

Quote:

They should be forced to have monkey-sex with my sister-in-law.




I'm sure they'd choose DP...
Posted By: Carly Girl

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:45 PM

[quote They never cop to that one, but it's certainly revenge.




Completely untrue.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:45 PM

Quote:

They should be forced to have monkey-sex with my sister-in-law.



once again, the constitution prohibits 'cruel and unusual punishment' (you opened the door, rictus)
Posted By: Roger That

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:50 PM

oh, I know it is.
She's a slimy, swamp-witch, she-troll of a woman.
And I've heard that um, down below her Mason-Dixon, is the wafting aroma of a bean and fish chaloopa.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:51 PM

that is sooooooo not right
Posted By: Bimmer

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 07:56 PM

Quote:

oh, I know it is.
She's a slimy, swamp-witch, she-troll of a woman.
And I've heard that um, down below her Mason-Dixon, is the wafting aroma of a bean and fish chaloopa.




Did you really have to go there????
Posted By: BotV#6

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 08:11 PM

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Quote:

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if someone takes away the 'right to live' from someone else, why should they continue to get that right? they shouldn't..it should be taken away too.



once again, our society has laws under the constitution. we cannot become vigilantes even if you think it should be done.




The person was tried and convicted. How is the becoming a vigilante? It's not. Therefore, since most states have the death penalty, get it over with. Pain, no pain, there really isn't a difference since the period of time the person suffers is relatively short.



traveler, this is difficult to understand. just because a state has the death penalty does not make it legal. in this instance, the method of death, as carried out under the state's death penalty law, become illegal under our constitution. the case isn't about the deciding the fate of the death penalty... although it effectively might. 'cruel and unusual' doesn't have a temporal consideration. perhaps the duration of time that the inmate is in pain will become relevant but i have a feeling the decision will not turn on that.



Did I discuss method? No. The responce was regarding the vigalante comments which were not applicable in this case. Besides, until the Supreme Court of the US rules the death penalty unconstitutional, the death penalty legality will continue to be based on each state's laws. Therefore, is it legal? Yes, it can based on the state's law.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 08:27 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

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if someone takes away the 'right to live' from someone else, why should they continue to get that right? they shouldn't..it should be taken away too.



once again, our society has laws under the constitution. we cannot become vigilantes even if you think it should be done.




The person was tried and convicted. How is the becoming a vigilante? It's not. Therefore, since most states have the death penalty, get it over with. Pain, no pain, there really isn't a difference since the period of time the person suffers is relatively short.



traveler, this is difficult to understand. just because a state has the death penalty does not make it legal. in this instance, the method of death, as carried out under the state's death penalty law, become illegal under our constitution. the case isn't about the deciding the fate of the death penalty... although it effectively might. 'cruel and unusual' doesn't have a temporal consideration. perhaps the duration of time that the inmate is in pain will become relevant but i have a feeling the decision will not turn on that.



Did I discuss method? No. The responce was regarding the vigalante comments which were not applicable in this case. Besides, until the Supreme Court of the US rules the death penalty unconstitutional, the death penalty legality will continue to be based on each state's laws. Therefore, is it legal? Yes, it can based on the state's law.



the vigilante comments were due to what some posters think should happen. the thread was started because the method of choice (which the states use due to 'cruel and unusual' concerns) is under attack. if you would like, we could start another thread as to whether there should be a DP at all. i kept the quotes intact so you could see the progression on this thread.

do you want me to explain how state laws are subject to the constitution? you seem to be a bit misguided as to the impact of this thread on what a state can do. your "until the Supreme Court rules" seems to be missing the point. this thread is not a hindsight thread.
Posted By: Jokerman

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 08:43 PM

Ron, go practice pseudo-law somewhere else. There are about three other posters who care what your opinion on this subject is.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 09:00 PM

Quote:

Ron, go practice pseudo-law somewhere else. There are about three other posters who care what your opinion on this subject is.



but i enjoy it. and i am pretty sure i was educating quite a few people how constitutional law works.

i do think you will care a great deal if the case turns out favorably for my pov however.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 09:03 PM

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I was just about to make a post in regards to this.... just makes me sick (about our legal system) that they are even considering this. Maybe they should spend a few hundred million dollars on testing and research to determine exactly how much "pain and suffering" these convicts actually experience while being lethally injected...if they havent already. Maybe they should do it in the least expensive way possible.....Oh wait that would be considered total disregard for a human life right?? So what they did to their "victims" and families of their victims just gets thrown out the window and fogotten right??



i'll start by answering like this:
veternarians stopped using this same method to euthanize animals years ago because it was incredibly painful for them. unlike animals, we as citizens have a constitution that protects us from cruel and unusual punishment-- regardless if you think a person deserves it. we do not use vigilante justice here in this society although you may want us to.





waaaa cry me a river ron. You do the crime, you pay the price.
Posted By: XODUS

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 09:06 PM

Quote:

It's also interesting to note that we are among the very last of the "developed" countries to still have the DP.




does this statement mean official death penalty? or does it cover when criminals just mysteriously die while trying to escape? What are the "developed" coutnries.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 09:37 PM

Quote:

Quote:

It's also interesting to note that we are among the very last of the "developed" countries to still have the DP.




does this statement mean official death penalty? or does it cover when criminals just mysteriously die while trying to escape? What are the "developed" coutnries.




I would say that it does not matter whether we are the last developed country to practice the death penalty. This fact does not make it right or wrong. Basically you are comparing us to Europe who is full of bleeding hearts. They also still censor their media from printing anything anti-patriotic (France).
Posted By: XODUS

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 10:01 PM

I am not comparing us to anybody. I just want to know who the qualifying countries are.
Posted By: Jokerman

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 10:46 PM

Quote:

but i enjoy it. and i am pretty sure i was educating quite a few people how constitutional law works.




Oh, yes, you're just a fountain of enlightenment.

Quote:

i do think you will care a great deal if the case turns out favorably for my pov however.




True, I will care about that development, were it to occur. However, that development will - in all likelihood - have nothing to do with your opinion.

If you want to continue posting on the subject, by all means, go ahead. I was in a foul mood, and was annoyed to see the subject again. It is, of course, your right to post on whatever you want. I should have ignored it.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 11:38 PM

Quote:

waaaa cry me a river ron. You do the crime, you pay the price.



lol

i am just saying that maybe the price you have have in mind might wind up being illegal.

i favor effective punishment. the DP is nothing more than revenge-- which is a fine position, just admit that that is what it is.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/26/06 11:44 PM

Quote:

have nothing to do with your opinion



how so? if lethal injection comes off the table, i don't see the more draconian measures go back on. after all, lethal injection was the way around that pesky 'cruel and unusual' thing.

j, we all act irrationally when we are in foul moods. i was actually hope to hear you chime in on this because we have some good debates although we don't seem to get the chance anymore.

btw, i prefer "font of wisdom".
Posted By: Jokerman

Re: Finally... - 04/27/06 12:09 AM

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Quote:

have nothing to do with your opinion



how so? if lethal injection comes off the table, i don't see the more draconian measures go back on. after all, lethal injection was the way around that pesky 'cruel and unusual' thing.




Uh, ok.

The point was, unless Scalia is perusing these threads and finds your thoughts particularly convincing - [write your own joke here, conservatives] - I don't see your opinion as the lynchpin.
Posted By: Jokerman

Re: Finally... - 04/27/06 12:10 AM

Quote:

i was actually hope to hear you chime in on this...




You're a very bored employee, aren't you?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/27/06 12:12 AM

death by 1000 cuts
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/27/06 12:47 AM

Quote:

Quote:

i was actually hope to hear you chime in on this...




You're a very bored employee, aren't you?



i have my moments.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/27/06 12:51 AM

Quote:

I don't see your opinion as the lynchpin.



then tell me how to practice the DP in a more humane way.
Posted By: rainman

Re: Finally... - 04/27/06 01:04 AM

Quote:

i favor effective punishment. the DP is nothing more than revenge-- which is a fine position, just admit that that is what it is.





Ron, Ron, Ron. . . .

1) It may be nothing more than revenge to some people, but others believe it has a deterrent effect. And you cannot prove them wrong. (Nor can they prove themselves right).

2) Is deterrence the only purpose for punishments in our legal system???? I can think of at least three others: a) maintaining public safety by keeping criminals off the streets; b) reformation/rehabilitation; and c) retribution (or revenge as you call it - others might call it justice).

Many (perhaps all) punishments in our legal system contain elements of retribution as well as deterrence and rehabilitation. The dp is the ultimate, but certainly not the only, example of this.

I am not a fan of the dp as currently implemented (nothing to do with the manner of execution, everything to do with flaws in the system). I have no real philosophical problem with it, though.

You may disagree with the reasoning of some dp proponents, but you don't do yourself or them any justice by telling them to just admit that their motives can only be what you say they are.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/27/06 01:27 AM

i think the deterrent argument is the soundest one i have. logically. statistics on this are in the eye of the beholder.

retribution is certainly your best argument but closing the door on lethal injection may take that away from you. you know i couldn't say much if they amended the DP into the constitution.

obviously i AM a fan of what you see as a flawed system. and my opposition is philosophical; the government is not showing the better example imo. they(govt of the people) are themselves becoming the beasts. i think 2 wrongs don't make a right. etc, etc.

sorry i was harsh. i wasn't trying to be overly abrasive. just being frank. i'm a man who loves rhetorical window dressing but sometimes you just have to get to the nitty grittyl.
Posted By: Jokerman

Re: Finally... - 04/27/06 01:15 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I don't see your opinion as the lynchpin.



then tell me how to practice the DP in a more humane way.




Why?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/27/06 01:25 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I don't see your opinion as the lynchpin.



then tell me how to practice the DP in a more humane way.




Why?



you said that a favorable decision for me in the lethal injection case wouldn't be a linchpin
Posted By: Jokerman

Re: Finally... - 04/27/06 01:26 PM

No, I said that your opinion would not be the determining factor.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/27/06 01:31 PM

Quote:

No, I said that your opinion would not be the determining factor.



do you mean my opinion as to the humaneness of lethal injection?
Posted By: Blade Scrapper

Re: Finally... - 04/27/06 01:33 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I don't see your opinion as the lynchpin.



then tell me how to practice the DP in a more humane way.




Why?



you said that a favorable decision for me in the lethal injection case wouldn't be a linchpin


No, he said your opinion wouldn't be the lynch pin.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/27/06 01:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I don't see your opinion as the lynchpin.



then tell me how to practice the DP in a more humane way.




Why?



you said that a favorable decision for me in the lethal injection case wouldn't be a linchpin


No, he said your opinion wouldn't be the lynch pin.



sorry, i am not following. what is my opinion that wouldn't be the lynchpin?
Posted By: Blade Scrapper

Re: Finally... - 04/27/06 01:58 PM

We the supreme court after careful examination of ron jeremy's opinion have concluded that.....
Posted By: Jokerman

Re: Finally... - 04/27/06 02:17 PM

Is anyone besides Ron not picking up what I'm laying down?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/27/06 02:28 PM

Quote:

Is anyone besides Ron not picking up what I'm laying down?



nobody else is paying attention. this is a 2-(3 with swimware)way street. please just spit it out. i am probably just being dense.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finally... - 04/27/06 02:30 PM

my opinion that if lethal injection is off the board, it will be difficult to effectuate a state killing or my opinion that the DP is wrong?