CTR Benes for multiple checks cashed?

Posted By: Cool*Compliance

CTR Benes for multiple checks cashed? - 08/06/21 05:47 PM

Questioning the situation where Mr. Smith brings in 2 checks to cash.
One check payable to Mr Smith AND Mr Jones for $160, other check payable to Mr Smith AND Mrs Smith for $12,000.00. CTR for cash out of $12,160.00. Mr Smith and Mrs Smith were the only people present to cash both checks and are Benes.
Is Mr Jones also listed as a Bene for the $160??
I think I know the answer but it's been a day or two since I've been in the CTR filing world.
Thank you in advance.
Posted By: John Burnett

Re: CTR Benes for multiple checks cashed? - 08/09/21 07:45 PM

Missing information:

Who cashed the checks -- Mr. Smith or Mrs. Smith?

Do you know whether Jones still had an interest in the smaller check, or had he already been paid for it and indorsed his interest over to Mr. Smith?
Posted By: Cool*Compliance

Re: CTR Benes for multiple checks cashed? - 08/09/21 08:20 PM

Mr Smith and Mrs Smith were both present to cash both the checks.
Mr Jones is assumed to still have an interest in the funds ($160)
Posted By: John Burnett

Re: CTR Benes for multiple checks cashed? - 08/10/21 01:41 PM

Let's first try to simplify matters by designating Mr. Smith as the conductor of both transactions (because he's a payee on both checks and could complete the transactions himself if Mrs. Smith wasn't there).

And let's further assume that the joint payees on the checks still have an interest in those checks.

That leaves us with Mr. Smith as conductor of two cash-out transactions totaling $12,160. He did so on his own behalf and on behalf of the other two payees.

Part I, Mr. Smith, box 2a checked $12,160 in item 22. If either check is "on-us," its account number in in item 22
Part I, Mrs. Smith, box 2c checked, $160 in item 22. If $160 check is "on-us," account number from check in item 22
Part I, Mr. Jones, box 2c checked, $12,000 in item 22. If $12,000 check is "on-us," account number from check in item 22

Some might argue that the amounts in the Part I sections for Mrs. Smith and Mr. Jones should be half the respective check amounts. I don't agree because there is no way for the bank to know how much of each check "belongs" to those joint payees, and I don't see any scenario in which the conductor of the transaction would share that information with the bank.

And, of course, there is always the possibility that Mr. Smith is the only person that will get the full $12,160, if the joint payees on each check had negotiated their respective interests in the checks to Mr. Smith.

Let's also acknowledge that there is no guidance from FinCEN that addresses this scenario, so we are, in fact, making it up as we go along. And if a bank were to ask the FinCEN Help Desk for its take on this scenario, the response is likely to be "from the hip," too.