CTR - Cashed Check vs. Withdrawl

I just wanted other's opinions. If a customer comes into the branch and writes a check to cash and gets out over $10,000 in cash, what does everyone classify this as? Obviously it looks like a check cashed for the CTR, but to me it is basically a withdrawl from a checking account. If they come to the teller instead of using their own check, all the teller would give them is a misc. check to write to take cash out.

Withdrawal

I actually contacted FinCEN on this exact situation. They said to mark it as a "negotiable item cashed". They are hoping to get some guidance out to clarify this for the bankers. I have not seen anything as of yet.

We've always done withdrawal for customer cashing their own checks, and negotiable instruments cashed for non-customers. Either one would really be correct, so it's probably a good idea that we're given more guidance by FinCEN.

I have been told the opposite. If a customer withdraws funds from their account at our bank, using a check-payable to cash or to themselves-it is a withdrawal. If a payee cashes a check on an account that they are not an owner/signer on then it is "negotiable instrument cashed". If the check is on us we show the account number, if the check is not on us we do not list an account #. That's the way we do it.

I have seen many similar threads on this issue in the past and they have concluded that when a check is cashed, even by the account owner, you should mark box 32. If there is no check involved you should mark box 34.

My 2 cents is that it depends on your banks situation. The bank I previously worked at did NOT use withdrawal slips. We required the customers to write a check to cash in order to take out money. In that event, you are cashing a negotiable instrument...even though it's a withdrawal.

My current bank DOES have withdrawal slips, so we mark them as withdrawals. If they write a check to cash and take out money, then it's a negotiable instrument cashed. However, I doubt your examiners will reprimand you for doing it either way.

I have a CTR/BSA Multipurpose Compliance Manual produced by Profit Protection, LLC that states the following:

"When an individual presents an on-us check drawn on the individual's account in order to withdraw funds, the transaction is to be considered a withdrawal and reported by checking both Item 34 [Deposit(s)/Withdrawal(s)] and Item 32 [Negotiable instrument(s) cashed]. Conversely, when an on-us check is drawn on an account belonging to someone other than the presenter, the transaction is only a negotiable instrument cashed and is to be reported by checking only Item 32."

I would concur with the instructions that banjo provided. The issue of whether a piece of paper is a check or some sort of internal withdrawal slip is moot, as the end result is a withdrawal of cash by the customer from their own account. Checking the "negotiable instrument cashed" box just because it involved a "check" is wrong.

I use the same manual that banjo uses, but I had an issue with new teller software that we were converting to in that it did not allow for both to be checked automatically when "cashing" a check through the teller system. That is when I called FinCEN. They said you would not be incorrect to mark either or both boxes, but they preferred you mark the "negotiable items cashed" box.

So, in short, mark either or both in this situation and you will not be wrong. (at least until they change their minds)

big-dog, I had the same conversation over a year ago. We treat these as cashing a negotiable instrument. We use the withdrawal check box for savings account withdrawals to make the distinction. Also, for deposits to either checking or savings, we use the same box. As long as you are consistent in using these boxes, it is OK. (No probs. with last BSA visit).