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#1988422 - 01/13/15 07:56 PM Re: CTR for IOLTA account unknown
BuckDog Offline
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I get the Tennessee rules. This business is not in Tennessee and according to customer, they are allowed to pay multiple tickets up to $5,000 each.
Last edited by BuckDog; 01/13/15 07:58 PM.
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#1988458 - 01/13/15 08:40 PM Re: CTR for IOLTA account unknown
rlcarey Offline
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First, never believe a customer. Second, even if they could, why would they be handing that much cash to a person.

Most likely they would have to file a 8300 even if they were acting as an agent of the State or a CTR if they were also a MSB. The chances of one person having multiple $5,000 tickets are slim to none.

The only thing a bank could do if a customer asked such a question would be to direct them to their own legal counsel.
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#2101813 - 10/05/16 02:48 PM Re: CTR for IOLTA account unknown
bcompliance Offline
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Law Firm A brings $21,000 in to branch 1 and deposits it into their law firm account using the nationwide IOLTA EIN number. Law Firm B brings $45 in to branch 2 and deposits it into their law firm account that using the nationwide IOLTA EIN number. Law Firm C brings $50 into branch 3 and deposits into their law firm account that uses the nationwide IOLTA EIN number.

In this scenario, we would need to list three Part I's: one for Law Firm A - person on whose behalf transaction was conducted, one for the customer(s) of Law Firm A - person on whose behalf transaction was conducted (potentially more if two individuals brough in 11k a piece), one for the employee of Law Firm A - person conducting transaction for another, and we would list the account number with this transaction.

Do we need to List Part I's for Law Firm B and Law Firm C (along with the identifying information for the individual who brought the funds into the bank) since they are using the nationwide IOLTA EIN number (I believe after reading through the forums the answer is yes, but want another opinion)?

I would not need to identify Law Firm B and Law Firm C customers' since they did not have cash in over $10,000, correct?

Form 8300 will need to be completed by Law Firm A for the customer(s) who aggregated over $10,000 in cash.

any insight would be appreciated.
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#2101817 - 10/05/16 02:55 PM Re: CTR for IOLTA account unknown
rlcarey Offline
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First, I'm not aware of a "nationwide IOLTA EIN number". These are all governed at the State level.

Just because for interest reporting purposes these accounts may reflect the same EIN, they are not the same entity - the deposits are not made on behalf of the State IOLTA. You only file on Law Firm A
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#2101847 - 10/05/16 03:58 PM Re: CTR for IOLTA account unknown
bcompliance Offline
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Statewide is what I meant. Thank you for the response Randy. FinCEN agreed with you...

Good day,

The CTR would need to contain the information on the $21,000 transaction involving Law Firm A. A Part I would be required for Law Firm A (2c), the conductor of the transaction (2b), and any other person on whose behalf the transaction was conducted (2c).

The transactions of the other Law Firms would not need to appear on the CTR.

Regards,

FinCEN’s Resource Center
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#2101885 - 10/05/16 04:59 PM Re: CTR for IOLTA account bcompliance
Elwood P. Dowd Offline
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#2101959 - 10/05/16 08:17 PM Re: CTR for IOLTA account unknown
bcompliance Offline
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Ken, thank you very much for that link (and the laugh, long day). It is a very good resource. This situation will be a great example for training (know why the customer is making the deposit and who it is benefiting!). Unsurprisingly, the attorney didn't want to provide any of the client's information to us when we inquired.
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#2102009 - 10/06/16 10:10 AM Re: CTR for IOLTA account bcompliance
Elwood P. Dowd Offline
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The response to the attorney is that he or she is required to file Form 8300 when the client gave him more than $10K in cash. Any argument about a disclosure is moot.
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#2102013 - 10/06/16 11:36 AM Re: CTR for IOLTA account unknown
bcompliance Offline
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They cited attorney client priveledge and said they were already filing form 8300 so they weren't required to provide it to us.
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#2102014 - 10/06/16 11:40 AM Re: CTR for IOLTA account unknown
rlcarey Offline
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Under the same premise, you tell him that you are under no obligation to accept the deposit and your next call will be to the agency than manages the IOLTA program in your State and maybe the State BAR, as apparently he is not a very good attorney smile.
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#2102018 - 10/06/16 11:48 AM Re: CTR for IOLTA account bcompliance
edAudit Online
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Originally Posted By bcompliance
They cited attorney client priveledge and said they were already filing form 8300 so they weren't required to provide it to us.


My next step would be to kick the attorney and all accounts to the curb, file a SAR and contact state IOLA program.
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#2102023 - 10/06/16 12:24 PM Re: CTR for IOLTA account unknown
thomasj Offline
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Was the attorney's name Saul Goodman by any chance?

We have encountered similar situations and it is amazing how many attorneys are not familiar with form 8300 or their requirement to provide us with the client's information.
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#2102024 - 10/06/16 12:31 PM Re: CTR for IOLTA account thomasj
Elwood P. Dowd Offline
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There's a reason why this is a long thread...
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#2102027 - 10/06/16 01:08 PM Re: CTR for IOLTA account unknown
bcompliance Offline
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Thank you for all of the information and responses. I will discuss with the BSA Officer on how to proceed.
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#2102161 - 10/06/16 06:19 PM Re: CTR for IOLTA account unknown
John Burnett Offline
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As for the attorney-client privilege claim, communications between the client and the attorney are exempt and confidential, but the fact that the attorney is depositing cash on the client's behalf isn't.
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#2102188 - 10/06/16 07:36 PM Re: CTR for IOLTA account unknown
bcompliance Offline
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Thanks for the clarification John. I have reached out to the state IOLTA program and the state bar associaton for assistance.
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#2215935 - 06/18/19 04:47 PM Re: CTR for IOLTA account unknown
Q Offline
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I know this topic has been beaten down but follow up question on this: we had an attorney bring in $12,000.00 cash for IOLTA. The Account Officer reached out next day to get client information. They asked the account officer if it was needed since the cash was made up from 5 different clients all below $10,000.00: Client 1=$5,900.00; Client 2=$1,200.00; client 3=$1,000.00, etc.

Would we still need to get each clients information as beneficiary on the CTR? I am leaning towards yes but not 100% sure and am unable to find something that clearly say yes or no. Thank you

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#2215936 - 06/18/19 04:48 PM Re: CTR for IOLTA account unknown
Q Offline
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PS posted on this thread due to this coming up first in google search in case others had same question in future

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#2215943 - 06/18/19 05:40 PM Re: CTR for IOLTA account unknown
rlcarey Offline
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Yes - one person conducted the transaction.
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#2216049 - 06/19/19 06:40 PM Re: CTR for IOLTA account Q
John Burnett Offline
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Originally Posted By Q
I know this topic has been beaten down but follow up question on this: we had an attorney bring in $12,000.00 cash for IOLTA. The Account Officer reached out next day to get client information. They asked the account officer if it was needed since the cash was made up from 5 different clients all below $10,000.00: Client 1=$5,900.00; Client 2=$1,200.00; client 3=$1,000.00, etc.

Would we still need to get each clients information as beneficiary on the CTR? I am leaning towards yes but not 100% sure and am unable to find something that clearly say yes or no. Thank you


The attorney's office may be thinking about a requirement that the attorney file a different CTR form -- the 8300 -- which would not apply in this scenario because none of the individual clients delivered a reportable amount to the attorney. However, each of those clients (and the attorney or law firm) is a person on whose behalf the $12,000 cash deposit was made at the bank, so the attorney needs to provide the bank the information about those clients that is needed to complete the CTR.
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#2216206 - 06/20/19 10:19 PM Re: CTR for IOLTA account unknown
BuckDog Offline
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Tennessee
We had an attorney whose bookkeeper went on vacation so when she returned she had two weeks worth of cash to deposit and yep it was over $10,000. I sent the section to the attorney regarding the requirement to list all the client information and told him we would need the information for the individuals that were represented by the cash deposit. The last names were listed on the deposit list but getting everything that was needed was a challenge. He did provide us the information in about a week. There were about 15 different individuals. When I see him on occasion, he smiles and says it won't happen again.

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