A question came up about what the difference would be between the HOEPA points and fees from the ATR/QM points and fees.
I must admit I'm a bit confused!

CFPB ATR/QM guide states:
- 3% of total loan amount for a loan greater than or equal to $100,000.
- 5% of the total loan amount for a loan greater than or equal to $20,000. but less than $60,0000.
- 8% of the toal loan amount for a loan less than $12,500/

CFPB HOEPA guide states:
- 5% of the total loan amount for a loan amount greater than or equal to $20,000.
- 8% of the total loan amount or $1,000.(whichever is less) for a loan amount less than $20,000.

So, to me the rules are similar with a bit of $$ difference, but if the loan is written as QM with the stated %'s does that make the loan a HOEPA also?

Any guidance will be greatly appreciated!

bump

The QM rules in 1026.43 refers to HOEPA 1026.32(b) for the definition of points and fees therefore they would be the same for both QMs and HOEPA.

The percentage thresholds outlined in each section are the determining factors if the points & fees meet the QM standards and/or subjects the loan to HOEPA requirements.

Thank you Dan! Appreciate your help.

Do I understand this correctly... are you guys saying that a HOEPA loan can be a QM if underwritten thru Appendix Q but it will not have a Safe Harbor...istead it will have a rebutable presumption of compliance?

Am I right? Sorry if this is an elementary question...

A HOEPA loan can be a QM. For practical purposes, it would be virtually impossible (the way i see it) for a HOEPA loan that has that status because of its points and fees to be a QM (since QM restrictions on points and fees are even more stringent than HOEPA requirements). ETA: and to answer the "safe harbor" part: since a HOEPA loan that is there because of its APR will naturally also be an HPCT, HPCT QMs don't have the safe harbor, but the rebuttable presumption, as you suggest.

I can see why you would think it impossible, but what if you have a no cost loan...then there wouldn't be any fees...right?

If there are no fees, then it isn't going to trigger the HOEPA points and fees trigger.

Thanks I appreciate the confirmation. Sometimes I can't see the forest for the trees. Ha!

Does anyone know if BOL is going to update the Reg Z and RESPA fees spreadsheets?? That would be so helpful for the HOEPA points and fees!!

Thank you for your input!

I have a worksheet I downloaded from Cbanc. Send me your email and I will gladly share.

We have been given sample docs by Calyx that shows the MERS fee as a fee counting towards the QM Points & Fees. Doesn't make sense to me. Am I missing something?

We saw that too. We questioned this with our outside Consultant and we believe it is wrong. We need to contact our Calyx rep to complain or have them explain.

Raidersn2000 or deh -- Did either of your get a resolution to your question about MERS fees and Calyx?

Not really. We just chalked it up as an error.