Would it be correct to say that EVERY fee which appears on pg 2 of the GFE must appear in the GFE column of the HUD statement comparison EVEN THOUGH the seller will be paying the fee? For example, the GFE shows the following:

$40 in block 7, Government recording charges, but the seller pays that fee. The $40 must be disclosed in the GFE column of the HUD, but $0 in the HUD-1 column since the borrower is not paying it. Is that correct?

$500 in block 4, Title services, but the seller paid the fee and it totaled $525. The $500 must be disclosed in the GFE column of the HUD, but I’ll disclose $0 in the HUD-1 column since the borrower is not paying the fee. Is that correct?

You show it in both places. Then you show the seller credit on page 1.

IOw, you will show it in the GFE and the HUD column...then any portion the seller pays will be a credit.

dumb, huh!

HUD doesn't care who pays a fee. If you have it on your GFE, you must live by what you say (within tolerance). What's strange to me is if you are off and have to reimburse, you give it to the borrower - even if the seller paid for the fee.

The whole thing was just sooooooo poorly planned out. And definitely out to get lender's, IMHO.

We have a loan on the same person we are rewriting, 6 months ago we pulled a credit bureau and did a appraisal should any of the previous fees which were for the old real estate loan be shown on the new GFE and HUD? Since this not service to this new loan.

Thanks for your help.

yes...then show them POC on HUD.

Why do you do this? If it is not a service to the new loan?

You are using the credit report from a prior loan, and the cost was paid on the prior loan.

Yes, the cost was paid on the prior loan. Along with the appraisal fee being paid from prior loan.

So they would be both shown as POC's on the new HUD since you are using them for this loan.

You would also show them on the GFE? What if you have a attorney's opinion dated 2 years ago, and will not update the abstract or get a new opinion what do you charge customer at this time what the old opinion was and show this on the new GFE and HUD?

yes. As to your second question...I'm not sure how to answer that as we would not attempt (for S&S reasons) re-use an opinion that old.

ALL settlement fees in connection with the loan must be disclosed on the GFE. When they were paid or who pays for them doesn't matter.

Refer to FAQ #13 & 32 in the GFE General section.

Do we charge only the fees inconnection with this new loan?

I am so confused. Here we go. We have new loan that we are making. The only cost to the customer is loan origination fee, mortgage tax, filing fees, and title work (title opinion). Are these the only fees that should on your GFE and HUD? They are they only fees inconnection with this loan.

Thanks for your help. Sorry I am so confused.

Regarding my earlier post, the GFE column of the HUD-1 should indicate line number 1201 and show $40 and the HUD-1 column should show $35(actual cost/pmt. by seller)? Then, on line 204 show $35 credit (what wording do I use?) Is this correct? Do I show anything on line 506?

For the closing attorney/title services fee, the GFE column should indicate line number 1101 and show $525 and the HUD-1 column should show $550 (actual cost/pmt. by seller)? On line 205 show $550 credit? Is this correct?

You need to list all settlement fees in connection with the loan on the GFE. You would list all of the things you indicated, but what about a credit report, flood determination, appraisal and hazard insurance?

On the Settlement Statement you list everything in connection with the loan - including voluntary things like credit insurance, inspections, home warranty, etc.

Line 1201 is only used for borrower paid recording charges. If the seller paid the recording charges, they are listed on line 1202. Same with 1203 (borrower fee) vs. 1204/1205 (seller paid fee). Only 1201 & 1203 are listed in the tolerance tables. Your situation would list $35 on line 1202. There would not be any credit in the 200s for the seller paid recording fees as you showed them in the seller's column on the HUD-1. This is different than other seller paid fees. Refer to FAQ #5 in the "HUD-1-1200 Series" section.


These fees would be listed in Block 4 of the GFE. If the seller paid these fees, they are still listed in the Borrower's column of the HUD-1 (because they were listed on the GFE). You "reimburse" the borrower by listing a credit in the 200s of the HUD-1.

Yes, I forgot to include the hazard insurance and flood.
The credit report and the appraisal that is what I am so confused about. They were done 6 months ago and were paid for on the first real estate loan.

On the old GFE we used to list every actual fee that would be charged to the customer that was in connection with the loan.

Example: Origination Fee, appraisal, title opinion or title search, final abstracting, insurance, taxes, flood, filing fees. If they were not going to need abstracting or title opinion only a title search then this is what we would put on the GFE.

Then on the old Hud we would just show the actual fees.

Is this the way the new GFE and HUD should be? But what if we don't actually do one of the fees when it comes to the HUD and it shows on the GFE. Well for example the appraisal was done but it was done 6 months ago for a previous loan. Would we just show this poc on the HUD?

Thank you.

apparently, you used that older credit report and appraisal and had you not had it, you would have order a new one, right? If that's the case, you show how much the previous reports cost, then when it comes down to the HUD, you show those costs POC.

This isn't new...it's just perpetually misunderstood!

Not to one HUD rep I got:

I wish they'd put that in a Q&A, JJ...it would surely make things simpler, IMHO. It's just dumb to have to do that, but that's been the interpretation forEVER!

I so don't trust answers from HUD emails...they contradict each other way too much for my peace of mind.

Agreed.

oh! nice avi, JJ!

So I should not put the estimated $40 Government Recording Charge in the GFE column of the HUD-1 even though it was included in Block 7 of the GFE? The reason is because this was a line 1202 item (paid by the seller in this instance) which is not required in the tolerance table. But, I would have put $40 in the GFE column of the HUD-1 and $0 in the HUD-1 column IF the borrower had paid that fee and I had put the fee in the Borrower’s column (line 1201) of the HUD-1?

On the Attorney Fee, since Block 4 of the GFE shows $525 I must carry that over to line 1101 on the HUD-1 under the Borrower’s column? I would not show any amount on line 1101 under the Seller’s column even though the seller paid the $550 ($525 plus additional $25). Instead, I would show the $550 on line 204? Is this wording sufficient for line 204--“Credit for Attorney Fee $550”

Also, on the Attorney Fee, the GFE column of the comparison chart shows $525. The HUD-1 column would show $0. The only time that I would show an amount under the HUD-1 column for this or any other fee is when the borrower is paying the fee. Is that right?