Uh oh. If this keeps up, the company's "parental controls" are going to refuse me access to this site.

Anon, you say that you've told him how this makes you feel. Has he told you why he's doing it?

I'd recommend you go back and read some of the papers from the founding fathers of this country. You've got your history a little mixed up. Most of the men behind the founding of this country, the drafting of the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights were Christian men, thoroughly convinced that they were founding a country based on Judeo-Christian ethics and morality. Their insertion of the first amendment was intented to protect the citizens of this country from being dictated on how to worship God, not on whether to worship God. They did not conceive in their minds that any rational person would reject the existence of God and distort the constitution to remove all semblence of God from this country.

And furthermore, where did I or anyone else condemn anyone in this thread? If there is any condemnation, let it begin with me. I've already been condemned as a sinner. I certainly am not like, nor do I act like my Christ. I fall so short in so many ways that I find it incredible to fathom that He loves me anyway. But He does. And He calls me to love my fellow man in this same way, not to condemn my fellow man.

Why is this any less of a forum for me to state my beliefs as it is appropriate for someone to state their beliefs that it's OK as long as nobody is getting hurt? This doesn't even get at the question of "What if they're wrong about nobody getting hurt?"

Where are the feminists out there? Why is it always the woman that is expected to lose weight to look nice?

Let's not get angry with one another.

Original Anon,
First, you are not pathetic, not in the least. This is a real issue and you have every right to be upset by it.

Second, don't apologize for "stirring up a fire storm". I'm sorry for your sake that the thread got off what is clearly the more important issue, which is the situation you are struggling with, but threads have a tendency to take on a life of their own, you can't stop them.

Third, as to what I would do, I think you've gotten some good advice already. I would probably try to get some outside help. For me, it would be through my church. I certainly wouldn't give up on the marriage, but I wouldn't ignore the issue either.

Ok – I have some questions that may start a thought process and a way to solving this “crisis”!!!!!!!!

1. How long has this been going on? (“This is nothing new” suggests its been going on for a while)
2. How long have you known each other and been married?
3. Do you remember when it started?
4. Can you think of a reason why it may have started?
5. Is this a compensation for something that he can’t ask you to do?
6. How open are you when it comes to talking about sex acts?
7. Does he do it in a secretive manner?
8. How overweight are you really? (most people usually subtract 10 pounds in their mind when they think of their weight)
9. Is he looking at heterosexual sites only or anything goes?
10. Any idea what in particular is he is looking at?
11. Is he a member of those sites? (Check for credit card bill with madeupname.com charges on a monthly basis)
12. Have you suggested watching together and seen his reaction?
13. Is there an underlying issue to which this is just the smoke screen?
14. Does he spend more time on the net than with you?
15. How often do you talk to each other?
16. Do you work in the same field of employment?
17. Do you have same works hours and are home at the same time?
18. Any kids?
19. Do you dress up for him like you did when dating?
20. Do you wear “intimate” clothes or are you wearing granny pants now that you are married?
21. Is this a storm in a teacup?

Remember, no one but the two of you will be ultimately responsible for the success and failure of the marriage! How do I know? I have been married to the same women for 20 years – from the time we were both 18!!!!! It is easier to walk away than dig in and make it work!!!

1. How long has this been going on? (“This is nothing new” suggests its been going on for a while) At least 3 years.
2. How long have you known each other and been married? 20 yrs.
3. Do you remember when it started? 3 years ago, that I know of
4. Can you think of a reason why it may have started? no
5. Is this a compensation for something that he can’t ask you to do? no
6. How open are you when it comes to talking about sex acts? very candid when talking with him
7. Does he do it in a secretive manner? yes
8. How overweight are you really? (most people usually subtract 10 pounds in their mind when they think of their weight) 5'5" 175 lbs
9. Is he looking at heterosexual sites only or anything goes? just women
10. Any idea what in particular is he is looking at? see above
11. Is he a member of those sites? (Check for credit card bill with madeupname.com charges on a monthly basis)nothing on the statements, but he does lots of buying and selling on ebay w/postal money orders.
12. Have you suggested watching together and seen his reaction? nope
13. Is there an underlying issue to which this is just the smoke screen? I really don't think so
14. Does he spend more time on the net than with you? yes
15. How often do you talk to each other? every day
16. Do you work in the same field of employment? he is unemployed
17. Do you have same works hours and are home at the same time? see above
18. Any kids? yes
19. Do you dress up for him like you did when dating? yes
20. Do you wear “intimate” clothes or are you wearing granny pants now that you are married? cute stuff
21. Is this a storm in a teacup? not sure how to answer that one.

Post deleted by elena

As grampy always said...there are many ways to skin a cat!

(I never asked why he was skinning cats...)

I feel for anon, and if she must resrot to a tiny little bit of devious behavior...heh heh, well it would deal with the issue for a little bit.

This may sound trite, and i certainly DON'T mean it that way, but you said he didn't work... could this be a part of boredom... and how would you rate your husband's own self esteem? perhaps this is something he does when he has nothing else to do... and the hiding it is direct relation to guilt... he knows you don't like it and that makes him feel bad so he hides it. i know that i am posting with my name, but i know this subject well... my husband and i had some issues with this before we were married. i felt much the same way as anon... i am shall we say not at a perfect weight... and i just knew that he looked at that stuff cause he thought i was ugly and he liked that more than me... really kind of ate at me. but we talked about it, alot! and a few things finally happened. 1: i realized that it had NOTHING to do with me. that he did love me, i was pretty in his eyes. that my negative feelings for myself hurt him too, and while they didn't make him look at those sites, it didn't make him feel very comfortable around me. 2: he realized that i hated those sites and that he looked at them, he has stoped looking, as far as i know cause the third thing was that i stoped asking or checking if he did. i had to trust that he loved me above all else and that i was most important to him. and by doing so he seemed to open more to me, calmed down and quit looking at that stuff. and his reason for looking... he was bored... so thats why i asked the earlier question.

First of all anon, don't go on a diet and lose weight for your husband. Do it for yourself. We all go through bouts of not feeling good about ourselves.

Secondly, if your husband is looking at porn it may just be a passing phase. Don't jump to conclusions immediately because that will only make the problem worse. Personally, I don't care if my husband looks at porn and I too have gained some weight. It doesn't mean he doesn't love me any less or desires me any less. If the fact that he is looking at porn bothers you...talk to him. Tell him your feelings. Tell him that you aren't feeling desirable. Seek the truth.

Thirdly, depending on where you live you may be suffering from that seasonal disorder that affects people when the days shorten up. I am in the Midwest and to hear people talking about how down they feel seems very common right now with the shorter days. You may need some medication to help you through the winter and into the spring.

Don't let this fester like a bad wound and never heal. Deal with it head on. You will feel better about yourself and your relationship.

Original Anon's post could have been me! Except my husband rents porn on pay per view and needless to say it's costing a *(<>@@ lot of money each month! He knows it bothers me and he knows I have been feeling bad about myself because, again like the original anon, I've put on a few pounds - nothing extreme but I have always been slim and then I hit 40 and everything has fallen apart! I sure appreciate all the advice everyone has given (even though it was meant for the original anon)!

Original Anon Here:

Thank You all for taking the time to post today. I will go home and pray about how I am going to handle myself. I always tell my kids to act, as opposed to react, so I guess that's what I have to do also. Again, thank you all, I really do appreciate you.

Good luck anon! My gut tells me everything will be just fine, and just to lighten the mood a tad, if it worsens or does not get better for you, for goodness sake, talk to a professional and don't listen to a bunch of BOLers who visit a Friday virtual bar on Thursday!

I would love to get into the suposed "separation of RELIGION and state". (Our founding fathers were not on the supreme court in 1963(?)) Another time, another thread.

With regard to porn in general, it is hard to argue with the point that if your spouse is hurt by the action - don't do it. Life is hard enough without having your loved ones adding to the burden.
Bordem has got to play into this.
Seek help.
My most sincere best wishes in your search to figure this out. I would start with my pastor.

Here’s my 2 cents worth assessment based on your answers. I hope your one word or two word answers are not indicative of the kind of conversations the two of you are currently having. Nonetheless we all have your best interest at heart and I am sure majority of us are staunch advocates of a blissful married life for both of you.

Your husband may not say so but he and you both know that you are overweight. The ideal body weight for women of your height is between 125 – 145 pounds. Unfortunately your husband (like many men) is one who attaches greater value on the physical attributes than internal personality. At this point, he just sees you as the kid’s mom. Unfortunately the “girl” that was in his life is now replaced by those on the porn sites. He is now comparing you to other men’s women and probably his friend’s women as well and does not like what he sees. The fact that he is unemployed and has nothing much to do has made him into a devil’s workshop. How many workingmen here have time to go home and watch TV let alone get on a porn site? If he is employable, he needs to get up his butt and start looking. If he needs to go back to school to become re-employable, so be it.

You need to have a long talk about the good times you two have had together in the past 20 years. Tell him you know what he is doing and you don’t have a problem with it as long as he is not secretive about it. Bottom line – make up your mind to achieve the ideal body weight – not by starving but by a healthy plan (no quick fix pills). Do it for yourself and you know a secret? – Keep wearing those bigger clothes even as you lose all the weight – then one day when you have lost a substantial weight – BAM!! Put on that sexy lingerie and dial 911 – he may need to be revived!!! If this does not work, you have wasted 20 years of you life with a pervert.

Rant Warning!!

Original Anon, forgive me if I hijack your thread for another topic, but this thread is just such a spectacularly good example of why users should register I just couldn’t pass it up. Other than 6 posts by the original anonymous poster who posted anonymously for an obvious reason and who identified herself in every subsequent post, we had 12 anonymous posts. Go back and read them. Can you tell who’s talking to who? Who’s responding to who? For all we know it’s just one person talking to themselves. It’s almost impossible to have a thread with a good give and take when you have several anonymous posters.

So, here’s my plea. Please register! There are many benefits, and from what I can tell over the last 9 months I’ve been registered, no draw-backs. No one will call. You won’t be inundated with emails from vendors. No one will forward your post to someone at your bank because no one will even know what bank you work for unless you tell them. As to benefits, you can private message other registered users. You are also much more likely to be taken seriously. It may not matter much in the Watercooler, but in the other forums, I don’t accept an anonymous answer to my question at face value, because it could be absolutely anyone. If the anonymous poster doesn’t provide a citation I can check for myself, or isn’t backed up by one of the registered users, it’s useless to me.

I also think you are more likely to get well thought out responses to your questions if you are registered. I don’t have time to read every post, but if I see that Bear Collector or CubDave is posting a question, for example, I’m more likely to read the question and spend the time researching the answer because I have some idea of who they are and where they are coming from and I know that I’m likely to benefit from the discussion.

However, if you insist on posting anonymously, at least use a different name consistently throughout a thread. Otherwise we have no idea who’s the original poster and who or how many anonymous posters we have responding. All you have to do is change the username where it defaults to anything else. Anything will be better than anonymous.

Ok, rant over.

Original Anon,

You say you have kids. Do they have a computer in their room? If so, get it out of there. Believe me, even with all the "parental controls" the porn and filth still gets through because those that produce it do not take long to figure out how to bypass the filters. Your children are at risk every time they use a computer, so PLEASE monitor their activity.