And speaking of appys. Their rules used to be color specific. now, they must come out of registered parents, but don't have to have the color traits of an app. I think that's DUMB, afterall, it's all about the color.

Breed designation for appaloosa's is ApHA
Breed desicnation for an american paint is APHA

(yet another confusion amongst horse breeds)

Non-characteristic Apps (those without App color) have to be CPO'd (Certified Pedigree Option) - DNA typed - if you want to compete or breed them as Apps now. I never bothered with mine when he was younger because I didn't care about showing App circuit. By the time I wanted to fool with it, his dam had been sold to a polo breeder in Argentina.

So, a racing quarterhorse with a quarterhorse dam and sire is or is not an appendix?

Is not an appendix...it's a blue-papered full blooded QH (with, of course, lineage back to TB and other breeds)

Ok...gotcha. If it has a thoroughbred sire and a quarterhorse dam (see that fairly often, i've never seen a racing quarterhorse with a thoroughbred dam and a quarterhorse sire though), then it's an appendix...right?

raitchjay, my appendix is racing bred and looks more TB than QH. His dad is out of Explosive Bid and his mom was a AAA racing QH mare.

Petie is built like a sprinter, but would just as soon not put out the effort!

I bought him as a weanling as a barrel horse prospect, but have turned him into a dressage play toy. It took me aWHILE to unbuild his stop (think reining horse), but it has been accomplished!

I changed his job primarily because he is truly built for straight lines and not hard-fast turns...he's very leggy and refined...not the best barrel prospect (IMO) if I care enough (which I do) to keep him sound!

<<-- wonders if we can get PR going on 'black-type' TBs next.

TB sire, QH dam or QH sire/TB dam, either way.

It usually is the way you mention and here is probably why.

TB mares, as a general rule, have a much harder time in the birthing process than a QH mare does, due to the difference in structure.

I figured it was because: for what you typically see (thoroughbred sire, quarterhorse dam); if the owner of the mare wants to pay the stud fee, then it's a done deal like in a regular TB/TB mating. I don't figure there are many breeders who own thoroughbred mares though who want to foal a quarterhorse (less lucrative). Just a thought.

If memory serves, me the racing QH line (besides lineage back to Tb's) were the "Steel-Dust" types. By "types", I mean body structure.

QH racing is no joke either tho, raitch!

It's common to use a TB mare to cross with a good-minded QH stud for performance purposes (racing, barrels...any speed events)

Wait! Appdx could only race in a QH race, so I'm not sure the point of

No, it's not a joke, but it's definitely not on the level of thoroughbred racing. That's why you see guys like Bob Baffert and D. Wayne Lukas start in quarterhorse training....have some success....then segue over to thoroughbred racing.

The point is: if i own a throughbred mare, why do i want to foal an appendix quarterhorse (which as you say, can only race as a quarterhorse), when i could be foaling a thoroughbred to run for richer purses.

it depends on what bloodlines your mare is carrying and which circle they are more popular in at the moment. Remember - breeders don't own *a* mare - they own 50 or so, and breeding racehorses is a numbers game. For every 30 foals on the ground, maybe 1 will be a decent runner. Also, the breeders very rarely keep the foals past the weanling or yearling sales anyway. They are breeding for popular bloodlines and good conformation, which result in the highest prices at the breeders sales. That's why unwanted TBs are so plentiful and cheap - most of those born are 'weed-outs' to find the few who might be successful racehorses.

Depends on the type. PR mentioned this:

I guess that's what i'm saying...i can only speak from the racing side....but, in general, if i own 50 TB mares as you say, what incentive do i have to breed any of them to a quarterhorse stud, if my intent is to foal a racehorse? I'm not bashing quarterhorses by any means.....just saying that there's more incentive from the breeder's standpoint to cover his thoroughbred mares with thoroughbred stallions. I haven't seen a quarterhorse weanling or yearling sell for $6 million plus like a thoroughbred.

If you are a racing TB breeder, you wouldn't. But a racing QH breeder who wants to inject a certain TB line into his program may very well pick up some TB mares who carry it simply for that purpose. He would breed those mares to the QH stud from the line he wanted crossed and produce an F1 generation of Appendix QHs with the desired resulting bloodlines.

I hear you.......i just mentioned earlier that for whatever reason, i have not, to my recollection, seen a QH/TB cross where the dam was the TB.....all the ones i see have the sire as the TB.

The whole racing breed industry is sad to me.

I think the entire horse industry is a bit messed up right now.

true

I have received calls from guys in places like west Texas and New Mexico looking for Thoroughbred mares that they could pick up free or cheap to use in their breeding program. Since The Exceller Fund does not promote breeding, we can't re-home our horses for that purpose. So I would give them contact information for some of the trainers at tracks nearest to them and tell them to deal directly.

Black Type for Thoroughbreds is earned when a horse wins a graded stakes event. When evaluating yearlings or two-year-olds in training, prospective buyers will consider the amount of "black-type" in the horse's pedigree along with conformation and training times.

A mare that produces foals that earn "black type" will often be referred to as a "Blue Hen."

I think it's kinda sad that the "racing" industry has become the breeding industry. Horses with black type rarely race beyond their 3 y.o. season now (unless they're a gelding) and head straight to the breeding shed.

If you hang out with the snooty horse crawd, "black type" is also sometimes used to refer to the classic, proven bloodlines. Heck - I've heard horse people apply the phrase to other species as well...kind of a 'horsey' subsitute for "blue-blood."