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#1692289 - 04/25/12 12:48 PM Re: ATM - New ADA rules Pup
Bob The Banker Offline
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Bob The Banker
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Originally Posted By: Pup
IMO, they are frivolous because they are brought on primarily by people who are seeking lawsuits rather than by people who are victims or even subjects of the offense (ie-disabled).

The fact that this individual has filed against several local banks is an indication that he simply is looking for a paycheck. Banking regulations aside, it is what is wrong with our justice system. Rather than a lawsuit by an individual, it should be a fine by the regulating agency.

This lawsuit is by a blind man who is unable to use this ATMs. Naming multiple parties is a litigation strategy, not a sign of a "frivolous" lawsuit.

Originally Posted By: Pup
The fee notice thing is easily combatted, and we would win any lawsuits brought on as we have been diligent in documenting, visually, our ATMs with the Fee Notice attached.

Our new machines are being wrapped with the fee notice as part of the design, so it cannot simply be torn off.

This has nothing to do with the ADA lawsuit. In fact, physical notice requirement is going through the process of potentially being repealed now that notices are provided on-screen.

Originally Posted By: Pup
Dragging our feet or not, since this came into play, Diebold and NCR have been working non-stop to keep up with demand (and failing), so there was zero possibility that all banks could have been in compliance in time.

IMO, I disagree. The industry had some approx 2+ years to make adjustments and even before that they were aware of the change coming down the road even though it was not set in stone. Very few banks were making changes then, they waited and waited and waited.

Originally Posted By: Pup
Also, the final rules allow for a compliance plan to be in place as we work to get our ATMs replaced.

FALSE. The period of being compliant by having a plan ended on March 15, 2012. Regardless of whether or not you have a plan, if the ATM is not compliant, you are not compliant.

Originally Posted By: Pup
$2Million is a rough estimate of our cost of replacement. Is that an undue burden? I believe it is if we are expected to do it in quick fashion. We're doing it, as is everyone else, but the majority of the machines are being scrapped ONLY because they don't have the software to talk to the customers. Really? I would be willing to bet that less than 5% of our ATMs will ever have headphones plugged into them after the technician conducts the test at install time.

Whether or not it is an undue burden depends on the financials of your bank. Providing that figure without knowledge of how large a bank you are and how much in income the bank gains, it is impossible to provide an answer. The fact you are doing is though shows it is not an undue burden.

At the end of the day banks love to say how much the ATM's save them in overhead in regards to staffing, how much the ATM's save them in regards to efficiency, and how much revenue the ATM's generate with fees. Yet, the one time the banks are legally reponsible to make these machines accessible to disabled Americans, all of a sudden it is a money pit.

Originally Posted By: Pup
I'm venting, but I'm mostly just upset people who have lost nothing are gaining by taking banks to court...again. That is what I call frivolous.

One of your key access devices, an access device that is continuously advertised and promoted, is not available to disabled customers. The everyday person has trouble enough finding time to get to the bank because of the limited hours, but now this disabled person is expected to do that and not have the benefit of one of your most promoted access devices?

A blind man is suing banks that refuse to provide the service they are legally obligated to. The requirements for the ATMs are VERY well known - so it is not some little known technicality. If your bank wants to provide technologically advanced services for customers then you have a responsibility to provide those in accordance with the laws of the United States of America.

The ADA Guidelines are not requiring you to reconstruct ATMs and lower them... simply provide services such as an earpiece technology that has been around for ATMs for quite some time now.

The thing I find most egregious is the complete disregard and/or contempt to provide disabled Americans with simple access features that are legally required. Many disabled Americans were put into their situations because they are retired veterans who were injured during the call of duty protecting this country. God forbid a bank provide them the ability to use an ATM with a simple earpiece.
Last edited by Bob The Banker; 04/25/12 12:52 PM.
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#1692316 - 04/25/12 01:28 PM Re: ATM - New ADA rules Daniel Ethridge
John Burnett Offline
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John Burnett
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,086
Cape Cod
Bob and Pup,

Thank you both for sharing what I believe are deeply-held convictions on this issue.
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#1692720 - 04/26/12 01:24 PM Re: ATM - New ADA rules Daniel Ethridge
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edAudit
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Posts: 4,797
You are here
At 33 - 40 percent of the settlement going to the law firm we will always see these types of cases.
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#1692984 - 04/26/12 06:09 PM Re: ATM - New ADA rules Bob The Banker
ADG Offline
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Posts: 3
Quote:
The thing I find most egregious is the complete disregard and/or contempt to provide disabled Americans with simple access features that are legally required. Many disabled Americans were put into their situations because they are retired veterans who were injured during the call of duty protecting this country. God forbid a bank provide them the ability to use an ATM with a simple earpiece.


Well said.


We upgraded hundreds of ATMs. It wasn't easy or cheap, but it is the law and it is the right thing to do. The ADA provides for private action because it is the only way to force change...most people have little understanding of how difficult it can be to live with a disability.

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#1693323 - 04/27/12 02:39 PM Re: ATM - New ADA rules Daniel Ethridge
Tesla Offline
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,726
Originally Posted By: Daniel Ethridge
Advisory 707.4 Privacy:

Is a blank screen required or an option? (this was brought up earlier but never answered completely)

Our product folks attended a webinar and this was brought up as potentially required, and they stated that we need to have our own legal team review

Thoughts?


I don't think this question ever got addressed? Any thoughts????
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#1693429 - 04/27/12 05:05 PM Re: ATM - New ADA rules Daniel Ethridge
Kathleen O. Blanchard Offline

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Kathleen O. Blanchard
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I responded to this question in another thread.

The only requirement is what is in 707. What can you do to provide privacy?

707.4 Privacy. Automatic teller machines shall provide the opportunity for the same degree of privacy of input and output available to all individuals.

Advisory 707.4 Privacy. In addition to people who are blind or visually impaired, people with limited reach who use wheelchairs or have short stature, who cannot effectively block the ATM screen with their bodies, may prefer to use speech output. Speech output users can benefit from an option to render the visible screen blank, thereby affording them greater personal security and privacy.
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