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#339330 - 05/13/05 01:37 PM Re: Exempt from RESPA?
Dan Persfull Offline
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Dan Persfull
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Posts: 47,584
Bloomington, IN
After being transferred 3 times, someone will call me back. Yeah right. I think I'll try to contact Art Kahn in the FDIC Chicago regional office to see if I can get a response from them.
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Lending Compliance
#339331 - 05/13/05 02:58 PM Re: Exempt from RESPA?
Dan Persfull Offline
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Dan Persfull
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Bloomington, IN
I have just been requested to fax the question to Joanne Kuccman at HUD. The fax is on its way.

I also have a call into the FDIC.

To be continued . . . .

PS: The next time I volunteer to call HUD, someone please shoot me.
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#339332 - 05/16/05 07:01 PM Re: Exempt from RESPA?
Dan Persfull Offline
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Dan Persfull
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Bloomington, IN
I just received a voice mail from Art Kahn out of the FDIC Chicago Regional Office. His conclusion, after consulting with others in the Regional Office, is that RESPA would apply in example number 2 where there are 2 distinct parcels.

If and when I hear from HUD, I'll pass on their response.
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#339333 - 05/16/05 07:07 PM Re: Exempt from RESPA?
RR Joker Offline
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RR Joker
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The Swamp
Quote:

PS: The next time I volunteer to call HUD, someone please shoot me.




So true, reminds me of the dark ages of secondary market mortgage lending dealing with FHA...talk to 3 people and get 5 different answers was the standard...ONCE you got ahold of them to begin with!

In context with the post...if you have 2 seperate legal descriptions, you cannot add the acreage together...each stands alone as each are different parcels, even if they are adjacent.
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#339334 - 05/16/05 09:06 PM Re: Exempt from RESPA?
David Dickinson Offline
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David Dickinson
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Central City, NE
Quote:

I just received a voice mail from Art Kahn out of the FDIC Chicago Regional Office. His conclusion, after consulting with others in the Regional Office, is that RESPA would apply in example number 2 where there are 2 distinct parcels.

If and when I hear from HUD, I'll pass on their response.



It ain't looking good for the home team.
Thanks for passing that on Dan. Let us know when you hear from HUD. Also, do they have any official guidance that HUD has published to back this us (other than the Q&A that you already referenced).
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#339335 - 05/16/05 09:17 PM Re: Exempt from RESPA?
Dan Persfull Offline
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Dan Persfull
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None that I know of, and believe me I've been searching since this discussion started.

I also have placed a call to the Office of General Counsel in the RESPA Division. Hopefully I'll hear something from them in a couple of days.
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The opinions expressed are mine and they are not to be taken as legal advice.

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#339336 - 05/19/05 05:23 PM Re: Exempt from RESPA?
Anonymous
Unregistered

If your loan is secured by two tracts: a 2 acre tract and a 26 acre tract and the home is on the 2 acres, is the loan exempt?

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#339337 - 05/19/05 05:26 PM Re: Exempt from RESPA?
Dan Persfull Offline
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Dan Persfull
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Bloomington, IN
Not in my, or the FDIC's, opinion.

I still haven't heard from HUD (I have on my calendar to F/U with another fax tomorrow) or from the Office of General Counsel in the RESPA Division.
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#339338 - 05/20/05 01:06 PM Re: Exempt from RESPA?
pjs Offline
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pjs
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oHiO
I'm interested in the answer too.
You guys are amazing. Thanks for all you do for us.

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#339339 - 05/20/05 03:56 PM ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!
Dan Persfull Offline
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Dan Persfull
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Bloomington, IN
Mr. Persfull,

I apologize for the delay in responding to your inquiry, but have been out of the office on business until yesterday. The Atlanta HOC is not responsible for administering RESPA guidelines. There is a RESPA Division in our Washington Office. The web address for the RESPA site is: http://www.hud.gov/offices/hsg/sfh/res/respa_hm.cfm

At the bottom of the RESPA page, select Comments and Questions and you can send you inquiry directly to the RESPA Division via e-mail. I apologize that I'm unable to respond directly to your inquiry, but going to the source for an appropriate response is more appropriate.

If I can be of other assistance, please let me know.

Joanne B. Kuczma
Chief, Insurance and Underwriting Branch 2


I've sent a new email.
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#339340 - 05/20/05 04:11 PM Re: ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!
Truffle Royale Offline

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What I'm getting from this is, even though my house sits on a 30 acre piece of "property", because the legal description for that property is Lot 1 and the north half of lot 2 this wouldn't count for the 25+ acres because it's two seperate lots (parcels)?

Am I reading this wrong?

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#339341 - 05/20/05 04:28 PM Re: ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!
Dan Persfull Offline
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Dan Persfull
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Bloomington, IN
No you're not reading it wrong. If your property consists of 2 parcels, then you own "2 pieces" of property totaling 30 acres. You do not own a 30 acre "piece" of property.
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#339342 - 05/20/05 06:16 PM Re: ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!
Anonymous
Unregistered

What if the house straddles the two lots. Exempt?

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#339343 - 05/20/05 07:40 PM Re: ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!
Dan Persfull Offline
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Dan Persfull
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Bloomington, IN
No. The house is still located on 2 pieces of property. (I was wondering how long it would take for this question to be asked. )
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#339344 - 05/20/05 11:36 PM Re: ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!
David Dickinson Offline
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David Dickinson
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Central City, NE
If you've read the entire string, you know that Dan & I disagree on this issue.
Quote:

What I'm getting from this is, even though my house sits on a 30 acre piece of "property", because the legal description for that property is Lot 1 and the north half of lot 2 this wouldn't count for the 25+ acres because it's two separate lots (parcels)?



I believe this would be exempt from RESPA as the loan would be secured by > 25 acres.

Dan has emailed HUD for clarification. We hope to hear an official opinion from them (although it looks like Dan is getting the run around and we may never know).
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#339345 - 05/21/05 01:17 AM Re: ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!
Truffle Royale Offline

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David, I hope you're right because that's sop and has been wherever I'm worked in my (too) many years.

I can't believe there's more than a handful of 25+ acre parcels around here that fit in one lot or section, etc.

I'm hoping that HUD's definition of 'parcel' means 'a piece of land belonging to a single owner(s)' and does not hinge on how many different descriptive parts make up that owner's property.

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#339346 - 05/25/05 06:34 PM OGC Telephone Response
Dan Persfull Offline
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Dan Persfull
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Bloomington, IN
Mr. Shapiro from the OGC just telephoned me. Their conclusion is also that it applies to a single parcel of land, and not multiple parcels. He also referenced that if I wanted a second opinion (this was before I told him about the FDIC opinion) to contact the people that I sent the last email to. I informed him I already have, and we'll wait to see if and when I get a reply from them. But for now the FDIC and OGC agree that it applies to a single property and not multiple properties.
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#339347 - 05/27/05 07:49 PM Re: OGC Telephone Response
David Dickinson Offline
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David Dickinson
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Central City, NE
Thanks for keeping us informed of your findings Dan. I don't like the answers, but I understand that you're just passing on the info.

Have a great weekend!
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http://www.bankerscompliance.com

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#339348 - 05/29/05 03:41 AM Re: OGC Telephone Response
Howard Lax Offline
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Howard Lax
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Bloomfield Hills, Michigan
I am sorry to say that I might have been a partial cause of this issue in 1992. When RESPA was modified to make lending a settlement service, I threatened (with a HUD employee in the audience) to have the bank I worked at buy 25 acres of swamp and have all its loans secured by that parcel in addition to the property that the home sat on, just to get out from under the new rule.
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#339349 - 06/21/05 09:36 PM Re: OGC Telephone Response
David Dickinson Offline
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David Dickinson
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Central City, NE
Better check this out. The poster emailed me and said she spoke with Jim Sorrentino at HUD about the 25 acre rule. I asked her to post it to BOL. Jim emailed her (harleesmom) so we have it in writing.
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#339350 - 08/12/05 04:30 PM Re: OGC Telephone Response
Dan Persfull Offline
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Bloomington, IN
I guess HUD does exist, I finally got an answer and they are the opposite of my opinion. No one signed the email - but the email address in the from section was:

jennifer_a._wharton@hud.gov

The blue text is their reply.

RESPA, HUD's Regulation X

3500.5(b)

Exemptions.

(1) A loan on property of 25 acres or more.

Does this exemption apply to a single parcel or to multiple parcels? Does the parcel single or multiple have property on it? (DUH, what do parcels usually have on them?) RESPA does not specifically address "parcels of land", but applies to the property that secures the loan.

Examples:

1. A purchase, or refinance of a 27 acre parcel containing a 1-4 residential dwelling. This transaction would be exempt based on 3500.5(b)(1). Yes, more than 25 acres. RESPA applies to mortgage loans. If the loan is secured by a lien on property and the property securing that loan is 25 acres or more, it is exempt.

2. A purchase, or refinance of a 15 acre parcel containing a 1-4 residential dwelling and an additional 15 acre parcel of land only (total acreage equals 30). The loan's purpose is not for an agricultural purpose or qualifies for any other exemption. Would this transaction be exempt from RESPA requirements based on 3500.5(b)(1)? Yes. If the loan is secured by a lien on property and the property securing that loan is 25 acres or more, it is exempt.
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#339351 - 08/12/05 06:17 PM Re: OGC Telephone Response
David Dickinson Offline
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David Dickinson
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Central City, NE
Thanks for the update Dan. I like what I'm hearing!
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#339352 - 08/12/05 06:23 PM OGC Telephone Response
Miss Kitty Offline
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 721
California
Thanks for the update, Dan and putting closure to this.

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