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#1782725 - 02/04/13 09:21 PM
Cash Advances
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Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 65
tn
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Have any banks discontinued the service of cash advances from the teller line? Since the availability of pin# for credit cards and the popularity of ATMs, is there a continued need for cash advances from a teller? The teller assisted cash advance on all the benefit cards, is becoming a costly expense.I know about the contract agreements, etc. but we can't remember the last time we had an actual "credit card" cash advance. Thanks for any input.
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#1782738 - 02/04/13 09:34 PM
Re: Cash Advances
2old2new
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,842
Illinois
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I know about the contract agreements, etc Then do you know that as a VISA/MasterCard issuer part of your contract is likely that you are required to offer these services and the VISA/MasterCard can fine your institution if you violate your contract? Also, when Social Security begins issuing cards on March 1st to all of those individuals who did not sign up for direct deposit, you may see an increase in demand for this service.
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Sola Gratia, Sola Fides, Sola Scriptura, Solus Christus, Soli Deo Gloria! www.tcaregs.com
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#1782985 - 02/05/13 06:10 PM
Re: Cash Advances
BrianC
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Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 65
tn
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Thanks Brian, and I am aware of those facts. I did not make my question clear. My position would be when our contract ends, we would remove the terminal and would not offer a cash advance service at all, to anyone. The ATMs would be available for such pin based transactions. Just wondering if other banks have not renewed contracts. Thanks.
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#1783064 - 02/05/13 08:41 PM
Re: Cash Advances
Kathleen O. Blanchard
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Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 65
tn
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Kathleen, thank you for the info. We were thinking of the contract with the company that handles our merchants and our own cash advance terminal/settlement and not the company that issues our bank's customer debit cards. Two different companies.And no, we couldn't live w/o those debit cards.. But, now we know we need to find our debit card contract, and reread it. Thanks so much.
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#1783069 - 02/05/13 08:53 PM
Re: Cash Advances
2old2new
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,842
Illinois
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If you are a MasterCard Issuer, see rule 8.10.1 of the MasterCard Rules:
8.10.1 Nondiscrimination Rule 8.10.1 of Chapter 8, “Sales Transactions and Cash Disbursements,” is modified to include the following: Subject to compliance with the Standards, each Customer within the U.S. Region must provide cash disbursement services to all Cardholders at all of the Customer’s offices where teller services are provided.
VISA Issuers should refer to VISA Operating Rules
Each Member, excluding one participating only in the Visa Electron or Plus programs, must make Manual Cash Disbursements to other Issuers' Visa Cardholders from all of its Branches in its Country of Domicile. This includes, but is not limited to, unembossed Visa Cards, and Visa Cards with a generic dentifier or no Cardholder name. This requirement is limited only by applicable law and the Issuer's Cash Disbursement policy.
_________________________
Sola Gratia, Sola Fides, Sola Scriptura, Solus Christus, Soli Deo Gloria! www.tcaregs.com
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#1783253 - 02/06/13 03:00 PM
Re: Cash Advances
Kathleen O. Blanchard
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Platinum Poster
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 504
TN
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Kathleen,
In cases where a tax refund card (from well-known tax prepration company) is presented for a cash advance and the card is not personalized with customer's name do banks have a right of refusal to honor cash advances? Can the customer be given the following options. (1) request a personalized card from the company so ID can be verified with photo ID in order to process the cash advance (2) If customer is unwilling to request a personalized card, they must use the ATM and the PIN number provided to them when the card was issued.
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#1783268 - 02/06/13 03:19 PM
Re: Cash Advances
BrianC
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Power Poster
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,663
TN
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If it's a Visa branded card, your answer is imbedded in Brian's previous answer. So no, you cannot make them get a personalized card, nor do I think you can deny them the cash advance. I believe Mastercard works the same. VISA Issuers should refer to VISA Operating Rules
Each Member, excluding one participating only in the Visa Electron or Plus programs, must make Manual Cash Disbursements to other Issuers' Visa Cardholders from all of its Branches in its Country of Domicile. This includes, but is not limited to, unembossed Visa Cards, and Visa Cards with a generic dentifier or no Cardholder name. This requirement is limited only by applicable law and the Issuer's Cash Disbursement policy.
Last edited by Dani York, CRCM; 02/06/13 03:20 PM.
_________________________
I can't herd the cats anymore, so I just set up the electric fences and let them fry when they stray out of bounds.
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#1783279 - 02/06/13 03:39 PM
Re: Cash Advances
2old2new
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,842
Illinois
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VISA Operating RulesMember Manual Cash Disbursements Each Member, excluding one participating only in the Visa Electron or Plus programs, must make Manual Cash Disbursements to other Issuers' Visa Cardholders from all of its Branches in its Country of Domicile. This includes, but is not limited to, unembossed Visa Cards, and Visa Cards with a generic identifier or no Cardholder name. This requirement is limited only by applicable law and the Issuer's Cash Disbursement policy. MasterCard Rules8.10.1 Nondiscrimination Each Customer and each of its authorized cash disbursement agents must comply with the following requirements at each office at which any cash disbursement services are afforded: 1. Not discriminate against or discourage the use of Cards in favor of any card or device bearing or otherwise issued or used in connection with another acceptance brand; and 2. Provide cash disbursement services to all Cardholders on the same terms and regardless of the Issuer.In other words, you cannot refuse to perform a cash advance for these cards or require that the cardholder visit the ATM. To protect yourself from risk, make sure that you follow VISA/MasterCard rules for identifying the cardholder, documenting the ID, and obtained a valid authorization with the cardholder's signature on the sales receipt. In the event the cardholder asserts fraud, all you then have to do is produce the signed receipt and any loss will belong to the issuer of the card. I will be providing more details on VISA/MasterCard rules as well as the regulatory obligation regarding debit cards in my upcoming webinar The Maze of Debit Card Compliance on March 27th.
_________________________
Sola Gratia, Sola Fides, Sola Scriptura, Solus Christus, Soli Deo Gloria! www.tcaregs.com
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#1783288 - 02/06/13 03:50 PM
Re: Cash Advances
2old2new
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,842
Illinois
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Dani, thanks for highlighting the VISA info as well...You beat me to the punch while I was off pulling in the MasterCard info.
_________________________
Sola Gratia, Sola Fides, Sola Scriptura, Solus Christus, Soli Deo Gloria! www.tcaregs.com
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#1783444 - 02/06/13 08:40 PM
Re: Cash Advances
Southern gal
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New Poster
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 11
NH
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According to the web site of the "well known tax peparation company" if the card is lost or stolen their customer is only liable for the first $50 if notified etc. So are we responsible for the loss? Or is Visa/mastercard? These cards have no identification on them in many cases so we cannot check ID.
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#1783465 - 02/06/13 09:11 PM
Re: Cash Advances
2old2new
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Power Poster
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,663
TN
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The card issuer is responsible for the loss PROVIDED you have followed the steps (id them, get signature, etc---see Brian's previous posts).
_________________________
I can't herd the cats anymore, so I just set up the electric fences and let them fry when they stray out of bounds.
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#1783466 - 02/06/13 09:11 PM
Re: Cash Advances
2old2new
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,842
Illinois
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As long as you follow VISA/MasterCard procedures regarding cash disbursements, liablity for fraud rests with the card issuer.
_________________________
Sola Gratia, Sola Fides, Sola Scriptura, Solus Christus, Soli Deo Gloria! www.tcaregs.com
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#1783875 - 02/07/13 07:36 PM
Re: Cash Advances
MrsSmithCRCM
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Diamond Poster
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,873
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One of our locations asked the same question to Visa/MasterCard...their response was yes....however, we still feel uneasy.....
Certainly wish that someone "in the know" would respond
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Riding the waves of change.....2014
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#1783883 - 02/07/13 07:51 PM
Re: Cash Advances
2old2new
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100 Club
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 179
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I don't see how you could institute a surcharge on a cash advance. The surcharge amount is limited to the merchant's discount rate. In the case of a cash advance the interchange flows to the merchant and results in income. There is no discount rate so you wouldn't be able to add a surcharge.
_________________________
"The mountains are calling and I must go." - John Muir
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#1784229 - 02/08/13 04:56 PM
Re: Cash Advances
2old2new
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Gold Star
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 320
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Isn't the surcharge rule also only aplicable to Credit Cards? So Debit and Prepaid are excluded anyway?
I'm having the same issue as "Mitten" ... we're reviewing our our practices, largely as a result of the SSA move to debit cards.
So: we do have third party arrangements for a credit card (we refer), and we do have a BIN for our debit card. VISA Brand for both. We do offer cash advance services at the branch. Above, Brian cites the VISA Rules which include a statement that reads "...limited by...the issuer's cash disbursement policy". What if our Cash Disbusement Policy is written in a way to include the topic of cash advances (credit or debit card), stating that we only do them in certain circumstances and with certain conditions applied?
I know it's splitting hairs, but these are questions I'm being asked. VISA Rules do not explicitly say "thou shall not impose a cash advance fee", but talk instead about transaction and surcharge. The argument I have to defend is that a cash advance fee is included in that broader definition, and it applies to ALL branded cards (credit, debit, prepaid, EBT).
We may just end up going down the path of removing our cash-advance terminal from the branches (we have a contract with a different providor for the merchant services)
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#1784245 - 02/08/13 05:17 PM
Re: Cash Advances
2old2new
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,842
Illinois
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VISA does specifically address cash disbursements...
Manual Cash Disbursement - Surcharge Prohibition An Acquirer must not add a surcharge to a Manual Cash Disbursement unless local law expressly requires that a Member be permitted to impose a surcharge. Any surcharge amount, if allowed, must be included in the Transaction amount and not collected separately.
I don't care whether you call it a fee or call it a surchage...VISA simply says you can't do it.
Your Cash Disbursement Policy can be customized to some degree. For example you can have it in your policy to not perform cash advances for individuals who do not have valid ID. VISA permits you to set a maximum amount. However, your cash disbursement policy cannot violate VISA Operating Rules. This means that any maximum that you establish must be applied uniformly to customers and non-customers. Your cannot discriminate between customers/non-customers, embossed/unembossed. You must perform the same services for all card types.
_________________________
Sola Gratia, Sola Fides, Sola Scriptura, Solus Christus, Soli Deo Gloria! www.tcaregs.com
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#1784248 - 02/08/13 05:27 PM
Re: Cash Advances
2old2new
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Gold Star
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 320
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Thanks, Brian. I am up against a wall with this argument internally. Because of the new surcharge rule, Executives here are falling on the word "surcharge" stating that I'm applying the rule too broadly. "They" want to charge a cash advance fee (surcharge!) on any non-customer cash advance requrest - debit, credit, prepaid, EBT. Period.
In a different thread, you cited the fees from MasterCard. Any clues on where I can find something comperable in VISA? I'm doing a keyword search in the rules now and am coming up empty.
I figure if they are willingly not going to comply, it's my obligation to at least inform them of the risks of non-compliance. If I can't stop them, I can at elast reserve the right to say "told you so".
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#1784277 - 02/08/13 05:58 PM
Re: Cash Advances
2old2new
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,842
Illinois
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Good for you on performing your research! Here's the VISA info: General Schedule of Fines Violation Fine First violation of regulation Warning letter with specific date for correction and US $1,000 fine Second violation of same regulation in a 12-month period after Notification of first violation US $5,000 fine Third violation of same regulation in a 12-month period after Notification of first violation US $10,000 fine Fourth violation of same regulation in a 12-month period after Notification of first violation US $25,000 fine 5 or more violations of same regulation in a 12- month period after Notification of first violation Visa discretion If the 12-month period is not violation-free and the fines total US $25,000 or more Additional fine equal to all fines levied during that 12-month periodYou'll find a nicer table version of this on Page 71 of VISA International Operating Regulations Sounds like you should invite you associates to attend my webinar on March 27th
_________________________
Sola Gratia, Sola Fides, Sola Scriptura, Solus Christus, Soli Deo Gloria! www.tcaregs.com
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#1784323 - 02/08/13 07:11 PM
Re: Cash Advances
2old2new
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Gold Star
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 320
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Oh perfect!! I found some stuff in Chapter 1, but this is laid out much better. Thank you, Brian! (and yes ... I'm checking the budget!)
Last edited by pacar; 02/08/13 07:12 PM.
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#1787195 - 02/19/13 03:41 PM
Re: Cash Advances
2old2new
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,842
Illinois
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Absolutely and you would be wise to do so. Remember that you cannot require MORE identification from a non-customer than you do a customer.
_________________________
Sola Gratia, Sola Fides, Sola Scriptura, Solus Christus, Soli Deo Gloria! www.tcaregs.com
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