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#36175 - 10/08/02 02:55 PM CIP - photo copy
Data Offline
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Data
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Houston
Are you including the phot copy requirement in your CIP? Is the date still Oct 25?
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#36176 - 10/08/02 03:01 PM Re: CIP - photo copy
JacF Offline

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We have been scanning ID for several years, so it's already a part of our new account propcedures. I have opted to leave it in for CIP as well. Even if we are not required to retain copies after the final rules come out, from a security perspective, I still want them.

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#36177 - 10/08/02 03:03 PM Re: CIP - photo copy
SMQ, CRCM Offline
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Between the lines
We are keeping the photocopy in for now and as far as I know, Oct. 25 is still the compiance date.
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#36178 - 10/08/02 03:05 PM Re: CIP - photo copy
David Dickinson Offline
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Most agree that a photocopy of ID is the best way to handle the CIP requirements. There is no question that Section 326 of the USA PATRIOT Act goes into effect on 10/26, but the question remains on whether we will have the final regulation by that date. If not, some believe that the regulators may offer some extension on complying. We have been down this road (discussion) before, but I don't see how compliance can be delayed. I read the law to state that we must comply (with or without an interpretation) by 10/26.
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#36179 - 10/08/02 03:44 PM Re: CIP - photo copy
Tina A Sweet Offline
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Marysville, Ca.
We are including photocoping in our CIP Program. This is a new issue for us, since we are in California and privacy is a big deal here. We wonder what actions will come from CA on this issue, as well as, what the final reg will say.
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#36180 - 10/08/02 06:59 PM Re: CIP - photo copy
SouthoftheBorder Offline
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The South
We are now scanning photo ID's in the Customers Identification File (CIF). This main file lists all accounts - deposits...loans, etc. The photo ID is essentially available for any loan the customer may have....a violation of Reg B ??????

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#36181 - 10/08/02 07:04 PM Re: CIP - photo copy
rlcarey Online
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Galveston, TX
There was some discussion regarding this before - see This Thread
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#36182 - 10/08/02 07:15 PM Re: CIP - photo copy
Michelle D Offline
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If you don't already photocopy ID, why go down that path until you have to. There are numerous discussion about those of us who are not taking the CIP to the board this month, because we don't have final rules.

I may be in the minority, but I'm holding out that they will remove the photocopying requirement and go with something that requires insitutions to document the State, Number, and Expiration date of the photo ID used.

So, my draft CIP excludes the requirement to copy, but it can be added if necessary. Make plans, but don't implement. As noted in the earlier thread there has been a great deal of discussion on the Reg B issue and I had a senior OTS person tell me that they saw Reg B issues with coping ID. So...

IMHO...
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#36183 - 10/08/02 07:17 PM Re: CIP - photo copy
SouthoftheBorder Offline
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GOOD GRIEF!....I was surely sleeping when that thread was posted. Thanks

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#36184 - 10/08/02 07:19 PM Re: CIP - photo copy
Tina A Sweet Offline
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I had a discussion with my regulators who indicated that we should implement the program as stated and change the program upon the final reg. I have placed a gray area that indicates the photocopy issue may change upon final regulatory implmentation. I think we are both correct in this issue and are following what our examiners are expecting, which is always a good way to go.
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#36185 - 10/08/02 09:02 PM Re: CIP - photo copy
Anonymous
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I attended an FDIC outreach meeting in Monrovia, CA on September 19th and the examiner that conducted part of the training did not seem to believe that we would need to maintain copies of driver's licenses. She also said that their examiners would be REASONABLE in conducting examinations of Patriot Act compliance. She basically stated that she understood our concerns and the fact that the regulation can be interpreted in different ways. She felt that the final regs will not be requiring copies and said that they would not cite violations if a bank did not make copies.

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#36186 - 10/08/02 09:22 PM Re: CIP - photo copy
David Dickinson Offline
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Central City, NE
In reply to:

She also said that their examiners would be REASONABLE in conducting examinations of Patriot Act compliance.



Whew! I was hoping that they wouldn't be UN-reasonable.
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#36187 - 10/08/02 10:11 PM Re: CIP - photo copy
Anonymous
Unregistered

According to an email from BankersOnline from 9.23, the ABA said that John Bryne "learned that the final version of the rules will not be released until the October deadline given by the PATRIOT Act. That means they will not take effect October 26th. At this time, it is not known how long financial institutions will be given to comply after the final rules are published." So why the mad rush now? Should'nt we wait until the final rules are announced?

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#36188 - 10/09/02 01:31 AM Re: CIP - photo copy
Andy_Z Offline
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I've heard both sides and the question is, does the law take effect whether or not a regulation is in place? Part two is, if there is no regulation in place, is there a tangible risk for noncompliance?
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#36189 - 10/09/02 01:01 PM Re: CIP - photo copy
waldensouth Offline
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FINALLY ABOVE the gnat line
The uncertainty is rather scary for those of us who really hate waiting until the last minute. I created a CIP and trained our compliance officers on the PROPOSED program. They have taken this to their banks and are testing it. We find something to improve just about every day. They have such interesting situations that I need to ensure are covered. We have always tried to implement a little early so that we can 1) work out the bugs and 2) get everyone used to doing something different before it counts. Our banks don't like being written up for anything and seem to appreciate the chance to "play" before it is final. It will be much easier to adjust it later now that they are used to doing it now.
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#36190 - 10/09/02 01:46 PM Re: CIP - photo copy
BankerMama Offline
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Gee Andy, wish I had the answers to those two questions, don't you? It's driving me crazy .....implement..don't implement.....that is the question!


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#36191 - 10/09/02 03:52 PM Re: CIP - photo copy
Lestie G Offline

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I'm not worried about the regulators and compliance examination risk so much. They would be in a tough spot if they tried to examine us for something that they hadn't issued yet.

What's gnawing at me is the legal aspect. What if we get a subpoena at some point, requesting something that we should have done under the Patriot Act, but we didn't do because we didn't have the final rule yet? This is, after all, a law enforcement regulation.
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#36192 - 10/09/02 04:32 PM Re: CIP - photo copy
Michelle D Offline
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I agree, but I don't recall that the act required the photocopying of documents. Most banks already require customers to provide them with a DL and record the number and perhaps year of expiration.

If you really read the requirements, there aren't a lot of NEW things - the new things are pains in the A, and perhaps require us to document our procedures better, but if they remove the DL component, change the recordkeeping timeframes and change the definition of an account, 3 big things but possible, our procedures get tightened, but not substantially changed.

So, I will still be able to provide law enforcement with the info they requested.
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#36193 - 10/09/02 04:53 PM Re: CIP - photo copy
Andy_Z Offline
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I agree with Michelle that the law is not nearly as defined as the proposal. I really feel that there is risk, but very minimal. It is almost not on the radar screen. I don't see law enforcement asking us for records. The biggest risk is that of checking all government lists. And when was the last time you had a valid hit? Rare.
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#36194 - 10/09/02 04:54 PM Re: CIP - photo copy
BBoyd Offline
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MI
In reply to:

We find something to improve just about every day. They have such interesting situations that I need to ensure are covered.




I hope you'll share those things with the rest of us -- it's always helpful to learn from someone else's experiences!
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#36195 - 10/09/02 06:15 PM Re: CIP - photo copy
Anonymous
Unregistered

I used to work with alot of reasonable examiners. The problem is their unreasonable superiors in the Regional Office. Many of these people have been out of the banking "real world" for a long time, and don't realize how these changes are received, by banking staff and by customers. I think I have my deposit personnel prepared for Oct 25th, but the lending department is another story. Particularly commerical lending. I have enough trouble getting the commercial loan officers to completely fill out an application!

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#36196 - 10/09/02 06:17 PM Re: CIP - photo copy
Nanwa Offline
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Oops! I must have been away too long. That last anonymous was me.
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#36197 - 10/09/02 06:53 PM Re: CIP - photo copy
Bear Collector, CRCM Offline
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How about this "new thing"? We open accounts for clients of an organization that performs debt counseling and debt consolidation. The clients live all over the U.S. The organization provides us with the client's information, such as TIN, DOB, name, address, etc., and the organization is contractually liable to us to ensure that they have verified the identity of these clients.
My feeling is that their contractual obligation to us does not alleviate our responsibility under the 326 requirements, and that we should insist on copies of ID along with the other required information and do our own verifications. Right now we only perform Chex verifications, and have discovered fraud in the past. However, there are some concerns that if we ask for additional information, we may risk losing a profitable relationship. Do you think a clause in a contract relieves us of our Patriot Act responsibility? I do not I feel that WE are opening the account, WE are establishing the relationship, and so WE are responsible.
What would you all do if confronted with this kind of situation?
Leslie
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#36198 - 10/09/02 07:02 PM Re: CIP - photo copy
Andy_Z Offline
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I agree. It is you who is ultimately responsible. Now, the guidelines you establish should be risk based and you decide what does and does not have to be in the file, within the allowable confines of 326.

If there was a penalty assessed after an exam, it wouldn't go to the other company. This is one of those "when you point your finger, there are 3 more pointed back at you" scenarios.
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#36199 - 10/09/02 09:57 PM Re: CIP - photo copy
Ted Dreyer Offline
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Leslie: Non face-to-face situations lend themselves to nondocumentary verification. You can collect basic information and enter it into an automated solution. The proposed regs specifically talk about using other methods for customers that are not physically present.

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