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#388988 - 07/21/05 03:21 PM
Would You File A SAR On This Activity ??
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Gold Star
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 327
Upstate N.Y.
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Customer obtains two separate checks from an attorney, in consecutive check number order and the same date. Each check is in the amount of $ 7,500. The memo section states something about a property sale on each check. The customer goes to 2 different branches on the same day and gets cash for each check. One could speculate that our customer requested their proceeds in two separate checks, then cashed them separately to avoid a CTR filing. How many of you would file a SAR? How many of you would not file a SAR? A CTR filing is an absolute. But how about a SAR ???
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#388989 - 07/21/05 03:50 PM
Re: Would You File A SAR On This Activity ??
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10K Club
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 13,965
TN
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Tough dilemma, but I probably would file a SAR, although some would call that a defensive filing. To me it is fairly obvious what the customer attempted to do - structure.
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My Opinions Only
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#388990 - 07/21/05 04:01 PM
Re: Would You File A SAR On This Activity ??
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100 Club
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 134
Mississippi
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I would definitely file a SAR.
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“The strongest of all warriors are these two—Time and Patience.†— Leo Tolstoy Russian Author
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#388991 - 07/21/05 04:06 PM
Re: Would You File A SAR On This Activity ??
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Gold Star
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 304
Midwest
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I wouldn't consider this a defensive filing at all. As a matter of fact we would include the attorney as well. High risk occupation...and the attorney (IMO) is aiding and encouraging the structuring.
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If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got.
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#388996 - 07/21/05 05:30 PM
Re: Would You File A SAR On This Activity ??
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Gold Star
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 327
Upstate N.Y.
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I appreciate the input...this is the type of transaction that I would like some guidance or clarification on from FinCEN. I am opposed to defensive filings, but having to explain to the OTS or our own internal auditors why I did not file a SAR on this one is much more difficult than filing the SAR, then defending my reason for filing the SAR. The fact that the majority of you leaned towards a SAR filing may be defense in itself. But this is a grey area that needs clarification, if someone like Bill Fox would consider this filing defensive and unnecessary. But until additional guidance comes, I am filing.
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#388998 - 07/21/05 06:01 PM
Re: Would You File A SAR On This Activity ??
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10K Club
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 21,939
Next to Harvey
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Security Guy, I don't really think this is defensive filing as I understand it. All of the facts point to structuring. So, you have to investigate. If your investigation does not turn up facts that outweigh the appearance of structuring, you don't really have a choice.
As you note, it will be easier to defend filing it than not filing it. However, there is almost no chance that anyone will ever ask you to defend a decision to file it.
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#388999 - 07/21/05 07:03 PM
Re: Would You File A SAR On This Activity ??
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Power Poster
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 5,564
Clintonville, WI, USA
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Do you need to file a SAR if you file a CTR? Even if the checks were each for a separate property, and he went to separate offices to cash them, don't they show up in the bank's totals as multiple transactions over $10,000?
I mean, a one time occurance, and he IS getting reported.
But I guess you can CYA and file the SAR.
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#389001 - 07/21/05 07:28 PM
Re: Would You File A SAR On This Activity ??
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I recently experienced a "difference of opinion" with an examiner on filing a SAR for an isolated structuring incident. Needless to say, the examiner won the battle and is citing me for not filing this particular SAR. I still believe in my decision to not file because I know my customer and the transaction is reasonable.
I realize FinCEN is trying to stop banks from filing defensively, but based on my experience, I am now completing a SAR for anything close. It's not worth leaving it up to examiner interpretation. Can you be cited for defensive filing?!?!?
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#389002 - 07/21/05 07:34 PM
Re: Would You File A SAR On This Activity ??
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,719
PA
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Quote:
Do you need to file a SAR if you file a CTR?
The filing of a CTR does not replace the filing of a SAR if the transactions are suspicious (as Banco Popular found out the hard way a couple of years ago). The two reports serve very different purposes.
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#389004 - 07/21/05 08:39 PM
Re: Would You File A SAR On This Activity ??
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Diamond Poster
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,044
The banana bin
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I'm with Pizzaz on this one. I don't know if this incident alone should trigger the SAR...There could be a number of reasons why he did two seperate transactions.
I would investigate the customer, monitor all transactions, and document. If possible, distinguish what his relationship is to the attorney.
Just my opinion.
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My opinions are definately my own. I could be wrong. But I don't think so.
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#389005 - 07/21/05 08:56 PM
Re: Would You File A SAR On This Activity ??
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Diamond Poster
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,820
Southern California
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Absent a reasonable explanation, you have no choice but to file as it "appears" that the transactions may be structured. If you are really struggling with this, have the account officer call the customer and ask if there was a particular reason why he cashed the two checks at different branches. The officer should then be silent while the customer spills his guts. If you aren't willing to take this extra step to determine if there is a reasonable explanation - file the SAR.
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Dolly Nugent CRCM Opinions expressed are my own.
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#389006 - 07/21/05 09:13 PM
Re: Would You File A SAR On This Activity ??
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,719
PA
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Quote:
have the account officer call the customer and ask if there was a particular reason why he cashed the two checks at different branches
I'm not disagreeing with this, but I think the first call should be made to the branch that cashed the first check. Find out if the customer intended to cash both checks, but balked at the CTR. Or perhaps the branch did not have enough large bills to cash both checks, so they sent the customer to a different branch with the other checks (I know it sounds silly, but this type of thing actually happens).
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#389009 - 08/11/05 04:55 PM
Re: Would You File A SAR On This Activity ??
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I cannot believe that you would feel that a CTR filing was adequate to show exactly what this customer was doing. I would sooner believe the CTR was redundant than the SAR.
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