It's easy to call race into question here and once you do it's hard to prove whether that is or is not the agenda. Honestly, once you say Fraudman has a racist agenda how can he prove that he doesn't. Maybe Fraudman is trying to backdoor some racist agenda, but until he gives me more to base that conclusion on I have to except the fact that he's simply a white guy complaining about something that happened relating to an issue that largely affects blacks. I think your trying to force in issue that simply isn't in his posts.

Fraudman - you painted a wide swath with that initial statement...

Fraudman: I appologize. I went a little far in assuming too much. I am happy that you too acknowledged that there were indeed an overwhelming % of people who needed this money more than any of us could ever imagine and did use in a way that reflected their dire circumstances. When I see comments that could allude to stereotypes, especially in light of the media coverage that focuses on the people of NO, I want to make it clear I view all Americans as equals. I also recognize that bad apples come in all shapes, sizes and colors but in light of the demographics of this cataclysm your point seemed biased by traditional stereotypes. I'm sorry I let my passion get the best of me.

One thing that gripes me is the ones who stayed behind because they 'couldn't leave' due to physical limitations or whatever are SOME (NOT ALL!!) of the same ones who were lifting heavy (looted) items thru chest deep water to some unknown destination. I realize there are a few who couldn't leave for legitimate reasons. But a few who stayed, did so because they wanted to, then whine because someone doesn't come to their rescue when things are worse than they planned on.

That's a legitimate point Vee but not all limitations are physical. Many of the limitations were financial: How to get out? Where to go? etc. I am however in no way defending looters. I can't call people breaking into stores for food water and medicine looters though. TVs etc are looters.

It just seemed to me that you illustrated your point by talking about the irony of 'physically limited' people who were 'unable' to escape carrying heavy objects away after looting them. I made a comment to emphasize that we have a much different perspective on life many of these people have/had.

Yes

I don't believe this to be a discussion on the perspective of life! It was merely a statement that referred to the many who chose to stay, were seen on many televsion stations in the act of looting, NOT taking the necessities of life. Sorry, but I firmly believe perspective and theft are not related.

Sorry, but I believe that the media will show media worthy things such as looting instead of the squalor that was in the Superdome. I am only trying to add some additional layers to threads where people assert that the situation is 2+2=4 when the siuation is exponentially more complex.

The following is an excerpt of an email I sent to family and friends. UI agree with the statement about the media only showing the bad. Names have been removed for my own reasons...


Saturday was another day of working at XXXX and XXXX house. All told, they probably had 50 trees down in their yard. XXXX has worked for XXXX for over 20 years, and was joined bright and early Saturday by 10 XXXX employees, who drove from Mobile, AL and Waveland, MS (Waveland was also decimated byt eh storm, with a 30-foot storm surge as well as being directly in the eye), as well as about 7 local friends. They were at XXXX's at 7:00 AM, which meant a 4:30 departure from Mobile. Over the course of the next 9 hours, we not only cleaned a neighbors yard of all hurricane debris, but removed the largest trees from XXXX and XXXX's. It is amazing what 17 people working together can accomplish. Over the course of the day, I, along with the other non-XXXX employees, became adopted members of the XXXX Katrina cleanup crew. It turns out that XXXX was sending various managers to help clean affected employees homes, and these 10 guys had not been at their "real jobs" for almost 2 weeks.

Also during the course of the day, we learned that 2 of the guys from Waveland no longer have houses, as they were completely washed away by the storm. I asked one what he was doing here, didn't he have enough to worry about. His reply was "I lost everything, and at some point will need to rebuild. I have no home to go to, and I think it is best if I can help those who still have a home to get their lives back to normal as soon as possible. I'll worry about me later." I was shocked by his response, and also his positive outlook that he will eventually back to normal. I wonder if I would have the strength to act as selfless as he has for the past 2 weeks.

I'm sure you won't see stories such as this in the media, it doesn't make good copy, and it isn't sensational enough. But there are many good stories like this, and it re-affirms my belief that people are inherently good.

Vee, you've been watching too much CSPAN or CNN...don't believe everything you've seen on TV or read in the paper. I've yet to see on credible report from NO that shows where the people fought and killed each other. Did some morons shoot at rescue workers and get shot by the cops? Yes, they did. Other than that, there has been no rioting, mass killing, or anything else that you have seen reported.

Of course, you are free to believe whatever you want, and your negative perspective about your fellow man says alot about you...

I haven't seen rioting or mass killing being reported in the media. That's all in Vee (or X's or Q's or whatever letter they're using this week)'s mind. He(she) would prefer that people are shown that way as that is obviously how they feel about themselves. Kind of sad, really.

Happy, I believe you have the true story of the strength and goodness of people. Good luck and please know that you and all the people affected by this horrible tragedy are being thought of and prayed for daily.

Aleta Jo

Listen, I am not going to attack Vee (who's not X) or Fraudman because they are correct that there are those that abuse the system and those that take advantage of the chaos. I do take issue with the politics of what they are driving at: Supporting these people (the poor or impoverished) is wasting tax payers money. They just squander it anyhow, etc. Earning a 'decent' living (what a Donna Reed notion of society some of these people have!)is simply a 2+2=4 matter of hard work rather than complex lesson in sociology.

By helping to convince others others of their cynicism about human nature

(oops! con't) they can help to further their own social agendas whatever they may be.

"Fraudman- you have no right to ask how our tax dollars are being spent by people who up until recently were also paying taxes."


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"You're kidding, right?"

No, I'm not kidding.

why does everyone have to play a race card. People are people and those in need are those in need. Let all be advocates of the animals lost and displaced and no way of finding their way home. Let's issue them debit cards and discuss that.

What? The animals didn't receive their cards yet?? WHAT?

Sure you do. I was more referring to that Fraudman didn't have a right to belittle those who seek assistance by asking them how they are spending his tax dollars.

Ron, thank you! Apology accepted with no hard feelings. Perhaps I did not explain the point I was trying to make clearly enough and that led to a misunderstanding.

I have worked in tragedies such as this, not floods following a hurricane, but the riots in 1968, 69, 70, 71 and 72. I saw and experienced first hand the victims and victimizers . While the circumstances were different the effects on the victims were very much similar.

One can only empathize with the victims who are only trying to survive. I looked through my scrapbook of the experiences and more than 30 years later, still shake my head at the inhumane acts of people against their neighbors and their community.

Sadly, this was in the U.S. but these deeds also happen in impoverished areas around the world. The so-called strong always take advantage of the weak in these circumstances.

It was heartwrenching to see news coverage showing dogs swimming in that putrid water after a rescue boat, only to be turned away by the rescuers. Some dogs dejectedly swam back to their rooftops, waiting to die.