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#619960 - 09/29/06 04:58 PM
Re: Should we be alarmed?
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Power Poster
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,152
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I saw part of a point-counterpoint interview with one of the camp leaders and an opponent (not sure who).
The opponent wanted to know what do five-year-olds have to repent for, and criticized the camp's guilt & shame tactics; he also compared the situation to the child soldiers in Sudan.
The camp's version sounded like they consider themselves some sort of "damage control" for all of the evil influences the children are exposed to in normal society. The camp leader went off on a long rant about how evil it is to make characters like Harry Potter into heroes, and how Disney cartoons are full of witchcraft.
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#619962 - 09/29/06 05:04 PM
Re: Should we be alarmed?
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Power Poster
Joined: Feb 2005
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This is the kind of stuff that scares me. I went to church camp as a kid and worked there for five years and it was nothing like this. It was a place centered on love of God, humanity, self and nature.
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#619963 - 09/29/06 05:38 PM
Re: Should we be alarmed?
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10K Club
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,766
Turnpike Exit 10
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I saw part of that interview yesterday morning, I have to say it frightens me. The preacher actualy had the children "blessing" GWB while lying prostrate on the floow in front of his cardboard effigy. I think that it is frightening, especially the war chanting against evil and witchcraft. Oh boy... http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2501819&page=1This one above, is a true wacko... what is wrong with the parents of these kids? And, it didn't have to be GWB, anyone would have had the same effect... ugh. edited due to typos
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Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain
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#619964 - 09/29/06 05:53 PM
Re: Should we be alarmed?
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Platinum Poster
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 555
Texas
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I agree that these folks are wackos, but I am not frightened and they do not scare me. These kinds of groups have been around forever. Why highlight this group as the one to be alarmed about when there are dozens of other groups that likely have more bite than these folks. Oh, that's right, they are religious and worship GWB. 
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#619966 - 09/29/06 05:55 PM
Re: Should we be alarmed?
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Platinum Poster
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 555
Texas
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Here is an armed group that is outside our city--I am not even sure where. http://www.zendik.org/ I've seen interviews with them where they say the reason they don't take on the government is that they are way overmatched for firepower.
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What is man, that thou art mindful of him?
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#619967 - 09/29/06 06:20 PM
Re: Should we be alarmed?
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10K Club
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 10,395
Jersey Shore
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Quote:
i say we invade their neighbors to put a scare into 'em.
Just Manitoba, or all of Canada?
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#619969 - 09/29/06 06:21 PM
Re: Should we be alarmed?
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Quote:
Little boys in fatigues and camo face paint, little girls with toy swords are encourged to
"Take these prophesies and make war with them!"
"Take back our country for God."
How many violent acts have they participated in?
Quote:
Just before story time, the boys and girls prostrate themselves before a portrait of the country's leader and pray to him.
If that's true, it's abhorrent, but I doubt it's a danger to anyone but those involved. (I also have my doubts that it's true.)
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#619971 - 09/29/06 06:28 PM
Re: Should we be alarmed?
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#619972 - 09/29/06 06:30 PM
Re: Should we be alarmed?
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Platinum Poster
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 555
Texas
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If you want to be alarmed, be alarmed by groups with some real reach into a particlar community, not some wacky group with a few members. Here are some suggestions; Latino Movement U.S.A A.N.S.W.E.R. Party for Socialism and Liberation How about Juan Jose Gutierrez director of Latino Movement USA whose group was responsible for organizing the immigrant march in Los Angeles in March. Gutierrez was an invited guest at the inauguration of new Bolivian president Evo Morales. Below is a link to his speech. He addressed them as comrades. Mr. Gutierrez' main point was explaining why the election of Evo Morales in Bolivia should be seen as an important victory for those who support the world-wide Marxist revolution and that Morales should not be seen simply as a Bolivian "nationalist," but as a hard-core Marxist warrior. Gutierrez talked fondly about the Nazi regime in its infancy visiting Bolivia to acquaint itself with the mystical and power symbols of the native peoples and stated that the Bolivians that he talked to believed that the only reason why the Third Reich failed was that the Nazis turned the swastika upside down. Gutierrez suggests we look to, "Fidel [who] in his introduction [to Che's revolutionary tract] Bolivian Diary...in his introduction Fidel said the people of the communist party of Bolivia who fail to support Che in his quest to ignite the revolution in the South American countries ...[have] nothing more than a prehistoric mentality..." http://www.pipelinenews.org/images/GutierrezBolivia.mp3
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#619974 - 09/29/06 06:42 PM
Re: Should we be alarmed?
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Diamond Poster
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,245
US of A
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Quote:
Well, I guess if you're going to have a holy war, you've got to start them young.....
I don't know where these quotes came from or what they are about, but it sounds to me like a classic case of these kids being spiritually abused by someone. Is this quote related to a Christian-based organization?
The concept of spiritual abuse by certain types of Christian churches and Christian organizations is beginning to gain more attention. Of course, it should be understood that spiritual abuse is not limited to Christianity.
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#619975 - 09/29/06 06:43 PM
Re: Should we be alarmed?
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,766
Turnpike Exit 10
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She was asking the children to bless him, but she made them lie prostrate before his effigy... OK, bless away, but don't make them lay down like he is some kind of freakin' messiah... crikey.
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Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain
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#619978 - 09/29/06 07:19 PM
Re: Should we be alarmed?
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Quote:
She was asking the children to bless him, but she made them lie prostrate before his effigy... OK, bless away, but don't make them lay down like he is some kind of freakin' messiah... crikey.
Well, I can just see a lot of room for misinterpretation. The idea of kneeling or even falling on one's face before God while praying is not alarming. The idea of praying for the nation's leader(s) is not alarming. While unusual, I would not find the use of some sort of visual aid to help kids understand who they are praying for to be alarming. (It would seem a bit odd to instruct five-year olds in some of this, but do we know that to actually be the age of the kids in question? Those pictured in the ABC story look to be significantly older.)
As to speaking out against extremist elements - I find lots of things some Christians do to be odd. Speaking in tongues, handling snakes, giving money to the national council of churches - they all seem silly to me. But none of them are alarming. Neither is this. If they were teaching these kids how to blow up abortion clinics, then yes, I would feel that Christians everywhere should condemn it.
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#619980 - 09/29/06 07:46 PM
Re: Should we be alarmed?
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Joined: Jun 2005
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Sometimes all you can do is quote something,
(from the article "Tummy Rings and Intercession" by Becky Fischer)
" Just then, one of the unsaved teenage girls walked past them sporting a tummy ring beneath her shirt. The little child immediately whispered to Marilyn, "I don't like that tummy ring," to which my cousin responded, "I don't like it much either."
"I don't think God likes it either," said the youngster.
"Well, honey, I don't know if God likes it or not," the gentle woman said quietly." But I do know that she doesn't have a mommy and a daddy to tell her about Jesus, to help her to know right from wrong, and how to follow God."
"
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#619981 - 09/29/06 08:06 PM
Re: Should we be alarmed?
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10K Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
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From the website:Quote:
We believe in one God who is eternally existent in three persons--Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Creator of all things.
We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, was conceived of the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, was crucified, died, was buried, was resurrected, ascended into heaven, and is now seated at the right hand of God the Father and is true God and true man.
We believe the Bible in its entirety to be the inspired Word of God and is our infallible guide of faith and conduct.
We believe man was created in the image of God, but fell into sin, which resulted in his spiritual death and separation from God. Only through regeneration by the Holy Spirit can salvation and spiritual life be obtained. This process of regeneration, referred to as being "born again" in the Word, takes place through a combination of faith and confession.
We believe in the resurrection of the dead, the eternal happiness of the saved, and the eternal punishment of the lost.
We believe in sanctification through the Word of God and by the Holy Spirit, and we believe in personal holiness, purity of heart, and life.
We believe in personal salvation of believers through the shed blood of Jesus Christ.
We believe in divine healing, through faith in the Name of Jesus Christ, and that healing is included in the Redemption.
We believe in water baptism, in the Baptism in the Holy Spirit as distinct from the New Birth, in speaking with tongues as the Spirit of God gives utterance (Acts 2:4), in the gifts of the Spirit, and the evidence of the fruit of the Spirit. We believe that all of these are available to believers.
We believe in the Christian's hope, which is the soon coming personal return of Jesus Christ.
Now, there are some things I don't agree with in there, but all of them are pretty standard charismatic beliefs. I can see why those unfamiliar with them would find them objectionable, and I can see why they could find it objectionable to instruct children in the beliefs, but I think it's pretty funny that the open-minded liberals on this site would be "alarmed" by these people who act peacefully, while simply believing differently from them. Others who plot to kill them, however, are NOT alarming - oh, no - they just need more understanding.
If it weren't so dangerous, it would be funny.
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#619982 - 09/29/06 08:37 PM
Re: Should we be alarmed?
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Platinum Poster
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 555
Texas
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Quote:
Sometimes all you can do is quote something,
(from the article "Tummy Rings and Intercession" by Becky Fischer)
" Just then, one of the unsaved teenage girls walked past them sporting a tummy ring beneath her shirt. The little child immediately whispered to Marilyn, "I don't like that tummy ring," to which my cousin responded, "I don't like it much either."
"I don't think God likes it either," said the youngster.
"Well, honey, I don't know if God likes it or not," the gentle woman said quietly." But I do know that she doesn't have a mommy and a daddy to tell her about Jesus, to help her to know right from wrong, and how to follow God."
"
OMG!!!! Suddenly, ignorance and narrow-mindedness is cause for alarm!!!! Call out the militia and the highway patrol!
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