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#628619 - 10/24/06 08:25 PM Ted Kennedy-Yuri Andropov - Interesting!
Fraudman CFCI Offline
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KGB Letter Outlines Sen. Kennedy's Overtures to Soviets, Prof Says
By Kevin Mooney
CNSNews.com Staff Writer
October 20, 2006

(CNSNews.com) - The antipathy that congressional Democrats have today toward President George W. Bush is reminiscent of their distrust of President Ronald Reagan during the Cold War, a political science professor says.

"We see some of the same sentiments today, in that some Democrats see the Republican president as being a threat and the true obstacle to peace, instead of seeing our enemies as the true danger," said Paul Kengor, a political science professor at Grove City College and the author of new book, "The Crusader: Ronald Reagan and the Fall of Communism."

In his book, which came out this week, Kengor focuses on a KGB letter written at the height of the Cold War that shows that Sen. Edward Kennedy (D-Mass.) offered to assist Soviet leaders in formulating a public relations strategy to counter President Reagan's foreign policy and to complicate his re-election efforts.

The letter, dated May 14, 1983, was sent from the head of the KGB to Yuri Andropov, who was then General Secretary of the Soviet Union's Communist Party.

In his letter, KGB head Viktor Chebrikov offered Andropov his interpretation of Kennedy's offer. Former U.S. Sen. John Tunney (D-Calif.) had traveled to Moscow on behalf of Kennedy to seek out a partnership with Andropov and other Soviet officials, Kengor claims in his book.

At one point after President Reagan left office, Tunney acknowledged that he had played the role of intermediary, not only for Kennedy but for other U.S. senators, Kengor said. Moreover, Tunney told the London Times that he had made 15 separate trips to Moscow.

"There's a lot more to be found here," Kengor told Cybercast News Service. "This was a shocking revelation."

It is not evident with whom Tunney actually met in Moscow. But the letter does say that Sen. Kennedy directed Tunney to reach out to "confidential contacts" so Andropov could be alerted to the senator's proposals.

Specifically, Kennedy proposed that Andropov make a direct appeal to the American people in a series of television interviews that would be organized in August and September of 1983, according to the letter.

"Tunney told his contacts that Kennedy was very troubled about the decline in U.S -Soviet relations under Reagan," Kengor said. "But Kennedy attributed this decline to Reagan, not to the Soviets. In one of the most striking parts of this letter, Kennedy is said to be very impressed with Andropov and other Soviet leaders."

In Kennedy's view, the main reason for the antagonism between the United States and the Soviet Union in the 1980s was Reagan's unwillingness to yield on plans to deploy middle-range nuclear missiles in Western Europe, the KGB chief wrote in his letter.

"Kennedy was afraid that Reagan was leading the world into a nuclear war," Kengor said. "He hoped to counter Reagan's polices, and by extension hurt his re-election prospects."

As a prelude to the public relations strategy Kennedy hoped to facilitate on behalf of the Soviets, Kengor said, the Massachusetts senator had also proposed meeting with Andropov in Moscow -- to discuss the challenges associated with disarmament.

In his appeal, Kennedy indicated he would like to have Sen. Mark Hatfield (R-Ore.) accompany him on such a trip. The two senators had worked together on nuclear freeze proposals.

But Kennedy's attempt to partner with high-level Soviet officials never materialized. Andropov died after a brief time in office and was succeeded by Mikhail Gorbachev.

In his attempt to reach out the Soviets, Kennedy settled on a flawed receptacle for peace, Kengor said. Andropov was a much more belligerent and confrontational leader than the man who followed him, in Kengor's estimation.

"If Andropov had lived and Gorbachev never came to power, I can't imagine the Cold War ending peacefully like it did," Kengor told Cybercast News Service. "Things could have gotten ugly."

In the long run of history, Kengor believes it is evident that Reagan's policies were vindicated while Kennedy was proven wrong. In fact, as he points out in his book, Kennedy himself made a "gracious concession" after Reagan died, crediting the 40th president with winning the Cold War.

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#628620 - 10/24/06 09:17 PM Re: Ted Kennedy-Yuri Andropov - Interesting!
rainman Offline
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I have never been a fan of Ted Kennedy's politics - I'm sure I disagree with him on most major and minor issues. But to suggest that he committed treason (which I believe this would have been) is pretty farfetched - and you will note that no reputable media have actually picked this up yet.

While my politics are the opposite of his, years of evidence indicate that Kennedy is a patriot and has sacrificed much for his country.
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#628621 - 10/24/06 09:16 PM Re: Ted Kennedy-Yuri Andropov - Interesting!
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Although I am not sure if this source is legit. I am sure that if this were done today it would be called free speech. I remember a certain someone representing Hussein at his trial. Isn't this the same thing.

I think that many Democrats would jump at the chance to damage our reputation across the world.

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#628622 - 10/24/06 09:41 PM Re: Ted Kennedy-Yuri Andropov - Interesting!
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Chump, why do you have a picture of SP's cats as your avatar? I thought I read that those were really her pets and not a standard avatar.

(Nothing to do with the thread; I'm just curious.)

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#628623 - 10/24/06 09:57 PM Re: Ted Kennedy-Yuri Andropov - Interesting!
rainman Offline
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Quote:

Although I am not sure if this source is legit. I am sure that if this were done today it would be called free speech. I remember a certain someone representing Hussein at his trial. Isn't this the same thing.

I think that many Democrats would jump at the chance to damage our reputation across the world.




No, it's not the same thing. One is actively trying to thwart the President's foreign policy and the other is ensuring that the trial to put Hussein away (or execute him) is viewed by the world and by Iraqis as a fair proceeding - which is actually carrying out the President's foreign policy.

BTW, I'm curious what you think about hijacking a photo of another poster's pets and using it as your avatar - what's the morality of that kind of act?
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#628624 - 10/25/06 03:54 PM Re: Ted Kennedy-Yuri Andropov - Interesting!
MichelleDawn Offline
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At least I get to look at my boys on someone's avatar.
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#628625 - 10/25/06 03:46 PM Re: Ted Kennedy-Yuri Andropov - Interesting!
Just Suzy Offline
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I find that really, really odd, Sweetpeas. Maybe in the future we can see Dan's fishing avatar on Chump's posts too. Or EGB's children.

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#628626 - 10/25/06 04:05 PM Re: Ted Kennedy-Yuri Andropov - Interesting!
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Quote:

I find that really, really odd, Sweetpeas. Maybe in the future we can see Dan's fishing avatar on Chump's posts too. Or EGB's children.




He just does it because he thinks it irritates me. Andy has deleted several of his posts about me recently and edited a couple of others so this is his way of being a big man. We really need that eye rolling avatar.
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#628627 - 10/25/06 03:58 PM Re: Ted Kennedy-Yuri Andropov - Interesting!
rainman Offline
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No, what we need is the ability to select his avatar for him. A symbol for one of the male names I referred to in the other thread would do nicely.
Last edited by rainman; 10/25/06 04:39 PM.
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#628628 - 10/25/06 04:04 PM Re: Ted Kennedy-Yuri Andropov - Interesting!
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Quote:


"If Andropov had lived and Gorbachev never came to power, I can't imagine the Cold War ending peacefully like it did," Kengor told Cybercast News Service. "Things could have gotten ugly."


In the long run of history, Kengor believes it is evident that Reagan's policies were vindicated while Kennedy was proven wrong. In fact, as he points out in his book, Kennedy himself made a "gracious concession" after Reagan died, crediting the 40th president with winning the Cold War.




The last two paragraphs completely discredit this in my opinion. First of all, Andropov may have been more belligerent than Gorbaechov, but he was no Stalin, [censored] bent on expanding his sphere of influence.

Secondly, I don't believe the Soviets had any more interest in WWIII than we did, and in fact, if you look at the Cuban Missle Crisis, it was Khruschev who took his finger off the button first, not JFK.

Thirdly, at the risk of alienating many Reagan-lovers, Reagan's role in ending the Cold War was primarily a case of being in office at the right time. The entire Soviet infrastructure was crumbling from years of misapproriation of money. Instead of focusing on building their economy with tangible goods, the Soviets produced billions of Rubles worth of useless products, so that they could point at their GDP and say "see, we are just as good as those capitalist pigs". Couple this with the vast amounts being spent on the arms race and the inevitable Russian corruption, and you have a country on the brink of collapse. True, Reagan's SDI may have helped push the issue, but if one single man is responsible for the fall of the Soviet bloc,it has to be John Paul II. It was his support that allowed Lech Walesea's movement to be successful in Poland, setting up the collapse of the whole eastern bloc, ultimately culminating with the secession of the Soviet Republics.

That said, even as a liberal, I think Ted Kennedy is a blow-hard, but I don't think he's capable of treason. Driving his car off a bridge while drunk and killing his girlfriend, yes, but treason, no.

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#628629 - 10/25/06 04:22 PM Re: Ted Kennedy-Yuri Andropov - Interesting!
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No, what we need is the ability to select his avatar for him. A symbol for one of the mail names I referred to in the other thread would do nicely.




I have to agree with you on this one, Rainman. You also notice he doesn't have the stones to answer the questions posed by you or Suzy. That says it all.
Last edited by Sweetpeas; 10/25/06 04:46 PM.
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#628630 - 10/25/06 05:15 PM Re: Ted Kennedy-Yuri Andropov - Interesting!
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Quote:

Quote:

I find that really, really odd, Sweetpeas. Maybe in the future we can see Dan's fishing avatar on Chump's posts too. Or EGB's children.




He just does it because he thinks it irritates me. Andy has deleted several of his posts about me recently and edited a couple of others so this is his way of being a big man. We really need that eye rolling avatar.




Where? I have never seen any one of my posts deleted by Andy. If he has, then I am sure he has removed about 2000 of yours. The reason I started using SP's avatar is because I like cats. I don't like immature little girls, who cannot support their arguments and result to name calling.

So, everytime I saw that cat with its head cocked sideways I would become irritated. So, in order to get her to remove the avatar I thought I would "irritate her". I want her to post something up on her avatar that is not nice.

I don't think she realizes that thanks to her no one respects some of her coherts views and make people want to stragle cats with sideways heads.

I think her posting actually hurts 1) the Democratic party and 2) the humane society.

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#628631 - 10/25/06 05:07 PM Re: Ted Kennedy-Yuri Andropov - Interesting!
Just Suzy Offline
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So, you are doing this just to be irritating. How do you think this helps your posts?

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#628632 - 10/25/06 05:22 PM Re: Ted Kennedy-Yuri Andropov - Interesting!
MichelleDawn Offline
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Quote:

Where? I have never seen any one of my posts deleted by Andy.




Then you aren't very observant.

Quote:

If he has, then I am sure he has removed about 2000 of yours.




You would be wrong about that.

Quote:

The reason I started using SP's avatar is because I like cats. I don't like immature little girls, who cannot support their arguments and result to name calling.




Irony anyone?
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#628633 - 10/25/06 05:16 PM Re: Ted Kennedy-Yuri Andropov - Interesting!
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See this thread for proof that your posts have been both deleted and edited.
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#628634 - 10/25/06 05:33 PM Re: Ted Kennedy-Yuri Andropov - Interesting!
MichelleDawn Offline
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There was one delted in the Nancy Pelosi thread, too.
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#628635 - 10/25/06 06:37 PM Re: Ted Kennedy-Yuri Andropov - Interesting!
CompDat Offline
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I do see, and stand corrected. I did not see, because I did not return to the post. Which I see SP seems to think is "non-observant". This really disappoints me. I have lost all faith in BOL now. I have never seen anyone do as much name calling as SP has. Have any of her posts ever been edited by Andy? SP, can you answer that?

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#628636 - 10/25/06 06:39 PM Re: Ted Kennedy-Yuri Andropov - Interesting!
CompDat Offline
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Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The reason I started using SP's avatar is because I like cats. I don't like immature little girls, who cannot support their arguments and result to name calling.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Irony anyone?





I am sorry that you pinned this on yourself. I guess we know how you think of yourself. I do think its funny then how you did not bold the name calling part. I see this as admittance.

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#628637 - 10/25/06 06:41 PM Re: Ted Kennedy-Yuri Andropov - Interesting!
MichelleDawn Offline
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Seek help.
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#628638 - 10/25/06 06:46 PM Re: Ted Kennedy-Yuri Andropov - Interesting!
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No seriously, has he ever edited a post of yours. I am not asking so that I can make fun of you or something. But the fact that I have not seen him ever delete any of your name calling (see the same thread) is promting me to take the same road as Z. I think someone has taken sides on these forums.

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#628639 - 10/25/06 06:48 PM Re: Ted Kennedy-Yuri Andropov - Interesting!
MichelleDawn Offline
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Quote:

No seriously, has he ever edited a post of yours. I am not asking so that I can make fun of you or something. But the fact that I have not seen him ever delete any of your name calling (see the same thread) is promting me to take the same road as Z. I think someone has taken sides on these forums.




Seek help.
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If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?

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#628640 - 10/25/06 06:49 PM Re: Ted Kennedy-Yuri Andropov - Interesting!
CompDat Offline
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For? Your post makes no sense.

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#628641 - 10/25/06 06:52 PM Re: Ted Kennedy-Yuri Andropov - Interesting!
MichelleDawn Offline
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Quote:

For? Your post makes no sense.




Seek help.
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#628642 - 10/25/06 06:53 PM Re: Ted Kennedy-Yuri Andropov - Interesting!
CompDat Offline
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Wow, those three posts are great summaries of your posting ability. I leave BOL pointing the finger. I hope your employer knows about you. Peace.

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#628643 - 10/25/06 06:57 PM Re: Ted Kennedy-Yuri Andropov - Interesting!
MichelleDawn Offline
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I hope your employer knows about you.




Right back at'cha. Seek help.
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