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#639515 - 11/17/06 05:21 PM
The High Court vs. Death Penalty Foolishness
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Thursday, November 16, 2006; Page A27 George Will There should be two Supreme Courts, one to reverse the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit, the other to hear all other cases. Last term, 18 of the court's 82 cases (22 percent) came from the liberal 9th Circuit, based in San Francisco, and the 9th was reversed in 15 of the 18. The 9th's winning percentage (.167) was worse than that of the 1962 Mets (.250). On Monday, in the first decision of this term, the Supreme Court reversed the 9th's fretfulness on behalf of Fernando Belmontes. In order, as he explained to one of his accomplices, to "take out a witness," Belmontes used perhaps 20 blows with a metal dumbbell bar to bludgeon to death Steacy McConnell, whose home he had entered for a burglary. He emerged drenched with her blood and carrying her stereo, which he sold for $100. She was 19. Belmontes killed her 25 years ago. How did capital punishment jurisprudence reach its current baroque condition, in which cases live longer than did the murder victims? At the hands of judges such as Stephen Reinhardt, a residue of Jimmy Carter's presidency, who says Belmontes's "robbery gone wrong" lacked "especially heinous elements." Snip....... Washington Post _______ WOW - 9th was reversed in 15 of the 18!Now that is a very disturbing bit of information about our courts, specifically the 9th.
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#639516 - 11/17/06 05:27 PM
Re: The High Court vs. Death Penalty Foolishness
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The death penalty would be a deterrent to many crimes, if we had it and consistently exercised it. That said, who wants to be the one to flip the switch, give the lethal injection, pull the trigger? I couldn't live with that on my conscience and don't feel I can ask someone else to do what I myself wouldn't do. There obviously are many who feel the same way, hence, we don't utilize the death penalty.
Good for criminals, bummer for the rest of us.
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#639521 - 11/17/06 06:29 PM
Re: The High Court vs. Death Penalty Foolishness
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I disagree - it makes me feel better and it sure stops the designated person from committing any more crimes, right?
Locking someone up in jail for life stops the person from committing more crimes as well, AND provides a cost savings over the costs of putting someone to death.
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#639522 - 11/17/06 06:30 PM
Re: The High Court vs. Death Penalty Foolishness
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it sure stops the designated person from committing any more crimes, right?
doesn't life in prison effect the same result? oh wait, they could kill the other DP inmates who you want to die anyway. quite the paradox...
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#639523 - 11/17/06 06:31 PM
Re: The High Court vs. Death Penalty Foolishness
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Quote:
provides a cost savings over the costs of putting someone to death.
for intellectual fairness, the costs are associated with fighting the appeals. KCl is fairly inexpensive.
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#639524 - 11/17/06 06:43 PM
Re: The High Court vs. Death Penalty Foolishness
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Quote:
Quote:
I disagree - it makes me feel better and it sure stops the designated person from committing any more crimes, right?
Locking someone up in jail for life stops the person from committing more crimes as well, AND provides a cost savings over the costs of putting someone to death.
Not true, buckwheat - a lot of crime takes place in jail, including murders. Wake Up!
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#639525 - 11/17/06 06:45 PM
Re: The High Court vs. Death Penalty Foolishness
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Not true, buckwheat - a lot of crime takes place in jail, including murders. Wake Up!
but i thought these people needed to die at all costs anyway?
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#639526 - 11/17/06 06:51 PM
Re: The High Court vs. Death Penalty Foolishness
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Quote:
Locking someone up in jail for life stops the person from committing more crimes as well, AND provides a cost savings over the costs of putting someone to death.
Cost savings? Three squares, clean clothes, TV, clean linens, heat for the jail, guards, medical attention, etc. for years and years costs more than a lethal injection, don't you think?
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#639528 - 11/17/06 07:06 PM
Re: The High Court vs. Death Penalty Foolishness
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Quote:
Quote:
Locking someone up in jail for life stops the person from committing more crimes as well, AND provides a cost savings over the costs of putting someone to death.
Cost savings? Three squares, clean clothes, TV, clean linens, heat for the jail, guards, medical attention, etc. for years and years costs more than a lethal injection, don't you think?
Yes, but not more than the costs of the attorneys, clerks, judges, etc. who handle the appeals. The last number I saw related to the cost of death penalty appeals was something north of $1.5 million.
We can keep them for a long time on that.
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#639529 - 11/17/06 07:08 PM
Re: The High Court vs. Death Penalty Foolishness
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Hear Hear Nanwa - we taxpayers "pay" for their crimes by supporting them. IMO while I do believe that the death penalty itself is not a deterrent, it's the only thing we've got. Appeals are filed because the defnse finds a loophole - maybe the prosecution needs to do a better job of closing the loopholes atg trial to eliminate appeals at all.
on the other hand, the costs are so great because some people will stop at nothing to spill their blood. this is the opportunity cost that you must pay. and don't tell me that the number of people on death row would make some huge differnt to the amount of money in general going to the penal system; that we need to kill them to save costs.
the costs are because people like me believe the DP is wrong and unconsitutional and we will fight it. your opportunity cost is bloodlust. don't place this blame only on me and the "system".
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#639532 - 11/17/06 07:22 PM
Re: The High Court vs. Death Penalty Foolishness
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Egads!! I actually agree with Ron!!!!
What is the world coming to????????????????????
To paraphrase another thread title: Gay Marriage? The Apacolypse? Dogs and Cats Laying Down Together? Howie becoming a Jedi Pope?
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#639533 - 11/17/06 07:25 PM
Re: The High Court vs. Death Penalty Foolishness
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Quote:
Quote:
I disagree - it makes me feel better and it sure stops the designated person from committing any more crimes, right?
Locking someone up in jail for life stops the person from committing more crimes as well, AND provides a cost savings over the costs of putting someone to death.
That is not entirley accurate bengal. As Ex Law enforcement, the reason the death penalty costs so much is the APPEALS process. Not the actuall killing of the offender. Futhermore, while one of the previous posters was correct in their assertation that there is no hard evidence that the DP is a deterrent to crime, it does prevent recidivism whch most violent offenders revert too upon parole and/or probation. As someone who is for the DP, my only concern is when the courts make a mistake, which does happen. The issue that should be debated is the potential loss of a few innocent people worth the offset to prevent recidivism?
Just one more issue, to all those who feel the DP is immoral, or cruel, I say lets see if you still feel that wat after someone you love is brutally murdered.
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#639535 - 11/17/06 07:36 PM
Re: The High Court vs. Death Penalty Foolishness
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Yes, I know am the 4th, but it appears no one is willing to accept it as a fact, so it bears repeating. I am aware of what our constitution says Ron. But I am sorry for you, your "opinion" of cruel is not the law. That is why there is a process of debating the topic. With any luck, the DP will be back soon enough.
Just so you know, before there was a CRJ system in place, there was a victim justice in place. Where, get this, the VICTIM was the focus of offense, not the offender. I know this seems like such a radical idea, but it did work. I wont lecture you on the reasons of corruption and greed why the system changed, I will let you google it for yourself.
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"100 victories in 100 battles isnt the most skillful. Subduing the other's military w/o battle is the most skillful." Sun-Tzu
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#639536 - 11/17/06 07:46 PM
Re: The High Court vs. Death Penalty Foolishness
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A woman that I knew (an employee from a local bank) was murdered in her home this week. The kindest, gentlest, most soft spoken person you'd ever meet. I talked to some other people from the bank, and they said they had a counseling session where the anger at this senseless crime ran high. Now THERE are some people who want the murderer strung up, if he/she is ever brought to justice. Justice according to Webster: the principle or ideal of moral rightness; equity, righteousness, fairness. No matter what is done to this murderer, if ever caught, that poor victim will never get justice. 
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#639537 - 11/17/06 07:50 PM
Re: The High Court vs. Death Penalty Foolishness
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so it bears repeating
i believe i was the first to put BF's comment into context and i oppose the DP.
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your "opinion" of cruel is not the law
looking to take a bite out of the apple and instead bit the whole tree...
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CRJ system in place
what is this?
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Where, get this, the VICTIM was the focus of offense, not the offender
get this, the punishment itself it focus of mine (and nearly every other opponents ire) not what you are suggesting which is sympathy for a killer.
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but it did work
what "worked" about it? did it deter crime? once again, this is about society not about individual bloodlust as retribution.
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#639538 - 11/17/06 07:52 PM
Re: The High Court vs. Death Penalty Foolishness
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that poor victim will never get justice
oh. the way some proponents of the DP talk, you'd think spilling the blood of the murderer would bring her back.
edit: and to head off the path a response might go down, justice under our constitution cannot include cruel and unusual punishment. there is no mention of eye for an eye anywhere to be found.
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