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#713483 - 04/09/07 05:46 PM
Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran
straw
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Last I checked, Europe has made several attempts to compromise, which have all been rejected by Iran out of hand. and any concession on the british troops and their wrong-doing was rejected out of hand...
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#713486 - 04/09/07 05:47 PM
Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran
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Last I checked, Europe has made several attempts to compromise, which have all been rejected by Iran out of hand. and any concession on the british troops and their wrong-doing was rejected out of hand... If Iran had evidence that the Brits were in their territory, they certainly would have presented it. But that doesn't answer the question does it.
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#713490 - 04/09/07 05:51 PM
Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran
straw
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f Iran had evidence that the Brits were in their territory, they certainly would have presented it. did you miss the brits standing in front of maps? but this isn't about whether they were right because everybody knew they were not. this was about them making up this lie and backing down from it. But that doesn't answer the question does it. you mean your "simple" question that middle east scholars debate?
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#713492 - 04/09/07 05:53 PM
Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran
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f Iran had evidence that the Brits were in their territory, they certainly would have presented it. did you miss the brits standing in front of maps? but this isn't about whether they were right because everybody knew they were not. this was about them making up this lie and backing down from it. Now you're getting it.
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#713498 - 04/09/07 05:55 PM
Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran
straw
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so you knew going in that ahmadinejad would make their country look like idiots for the heck of it? or maybe there is some credence to him wanting to make a bold move only to be rebuffed internally... who knows, but let's not take chances. when do we invade?
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#713511 - 04/09/07 06:02 PM
Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran
straw
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Or maybe they wanted a quid pro quo; exchange the soldiers for the "consuls" held in Iraq. did that happen? many thought that was the reason this fiasco happened in the first place, but there was a different resolution. What do you think of the Iranians' blatant disregard for the Geneva Conventions? they weren't prisoners of war, counselor. do we follow geneva conventions with mexicans?
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#713515 - 04/09/07 06:04 PM
Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran
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Or maybe they wanted a quid pro quo; exchange the soldiers for the "consuls" held in Iraq. did that happen? many thought that was the reason this fiasco happened in the first place, but there was a different resolution. What do you think of the Iranians' blatant disregard for the Geneva Conventions? they weren't prisoners of war, counselor. do we follow geneva conventions with mexicans? What were they? The Mexicans crossing the border are not uniformed soldiers counselor.
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#713516 - 04/09/07 06:04 PM
Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran
TheManofSteel
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we already know that you think that the iranians are some hetergenous organism with one point of view. what about the articles referring to the pragmatists? do you think they are trying to cut off their nose despite their face? do they have no power?
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#713519 - 04/09/07 06:06 PM
Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran
straw
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What were they? The Mexicans crossing the border are not uniformed soldiers counselor. uniformed or not, without war, the brits were effectively tresspassers and nothing more.
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#713520 - 04/09/07 06:06 PM
Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran
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we already know that you think that the iranians are some hetergenous organism with one point of view. what about the articles referring to the pragmatists? do you think they are trying to cut off their nose despite their face? do they have no power? And what part do these pragmatists play in the enrichment of uranium?
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"Beneath an ever watchful eye...the angels of the temple fly"
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#713526 - 04/09/07 06:11 PM
Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran
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What were they? The Mexicans crossing the border are not uniformed soldiers counselor. uniformed or not, without war, the brits were effectively tresspassers and nothing more. Please read below: Article 3 states that even where there is not a conflict of international character the parties must as a minimum adhere to minimal protections described as: noncombatants, members of armed forces who have laid down their arms, and combatants who are hors de combat (out of the fight) due to wounds, detention, or any other cause shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, with the following prohibitions: (a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture; (b) taking of hostages; (c) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment; (d) the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.
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#713530 - 04/09/07 06:12 PM
Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran
TheManofSteel
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And what part do these pragmatists play in the enrichment of uranium? perhaps they will only want nuclear energy for the well-being of their nation and not risk physical and/or economic annihilation because this could be used for making weapons.
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#713539 - 04/09/07 06:19 PM
Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran
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And what part do these pragmatists play in the enrichment of uranium? perhaps they will only want nuclear energy for the well-being of their nation and not risk physical and/or economic annihilation because this could be used for making weapons. Then perhaps you could explain why they need to enrich so much uranium, or enrich it to such a high degree, or did not accept Russia offer to provide the uranium.
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#713540 - 04/09/07 06:20 PM
Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran
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straw, ok, i never professed to be an expert on the geneva convention. should we turn the screws up on them on this issue and try to galvanize the iranian polity?
or maybe there isn't a huge outcry because there WAS a compromise reached; a compromise due to a wave of overall pragmatism?
who cares! let's put them in front of the hague while we bomb them to the stone age! Then maybe you should have been so quick and sarcastic earlier. And maybe Abu Gharab shouldn't have been such a big issue. One little jail of hundreds used and only a few prisoners humiliated. What was the big deal. See, it can work both ways.
Last edited by straw; 04/09/07 06:21 PM.
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#713546 - 04/09/07 06:25 PM
Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran
straw
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Then perhaps you could explain why they need to enrich so much uranium,
or enrich it to such a high degree,
or did not accept Russia offer to provide the uranium. like i said before, if there is a changing of the guard, are they really pressing on this issue? or is it much like the britons situation in that they talk a big game but are essentially haggling because there is a mouthpiece and then there is the actual political reality of the nation? did you see the isaacson article? you know they were discussing larijani. you do know who that is, right? invasion time...
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#713547 - 04/09/07 06:27 PM
Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran
straw
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And maybe Abu Gharab shouldn't have been such a big issue. One little jail of hundreds used and only a few prisoners humiliated. yes, the situations are mirror images. you are comparing apples to apples.
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#713548 - 04/09/07 06:27 PM
Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran
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Then perhaps you could explain why they need to enrich so much uranium,
or enrich it to such a high degree,
or did not accept Russia offer to provide the uranium. like i said before, if there is a changing of the guard, are they really pressing on this issue? or is it much like the britons situation in that they talk a big game but are essentially haggling because there is a mouthpiece and then there is the actual political reality of the nation? did you see the isaacson article? you know they were discussing larijani. you do know who that is, right? invasion time... You've convinced me Ron; after nearly 30 years, we should continue to wait on the moderates, dismiss the hard line rhetoric and ignore the actions that speak louder than words. All this is simply to extract a better deal. They have no intent to develop nuclear weapons. I believe this is the European strategy. I will call it the ostrich option. You have my full support.
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#713550 - 04/09/07 06:28 PM
Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran
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And maybe Abu Gharab shouldn't have been such a big issue. One little jail of hundreds used and only a few prisoners humiliated. yes, the situations are mirror images. you are comparing apples to apples. So there are degrees of human right violations? Or are only US vioations an issue, while Iranians make their own rules ... again.
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#713557 - 04/09/07 06:32 PM
Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran
straw
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So there are degrees of human right violations? Or are only US vioations an issue, while Iranians make their own rules ... again. i don't disagree with you there about the double standard. but the alternative to not "humoring" their bravado to a certain extent is invasion which is why i keep asking you.
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