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#1182327 - 05/13/09 03:28 PM
Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published
swiggles
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10K Club
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 20,656
The Swamp
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We'll still supply a final as well, but presumably (based on research) there would be very little chance of it changing enough to require the additional wait. Sometimes it's hard to be sure until you get the final HUD and that can be right up to closing time!
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My opinion only. Not legal advice. Say you'll haunt me - Stone Sour
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#1182345 - 05/13/09 03:37 PM
Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published
swiggles
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10K Club
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 17,410
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I know I'm coming late to the party but ???
Is the FINAL TIL the same as a corrected TIL? I thought the additional 3 days only applied if you had to give a revised TIL because the prelim changed and was now out of tolerance.
To (try to ) clarify: ETIL 3 & 7 days running concurrently - Final TIL at table still needs additional 3 days??? What if it's a purchase? That means the Final TIL has to go out three days (or 3 + 3 if mailed) prior to closing?
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#1182361 - 05/13/09 03:48 PM
Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published
swiggles
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Gold Star
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 279
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If we do a manufactured home loan (no land taken as collateral), then the early TIL will not be required since RESPA would not apply, correct?
If I read things correctly, the major change affecting home-only loans will be required escrow accounts if deemed a "higher priced" loan, even though they are not subject to RESPA.
Am I on the correct path?
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#1182382 - 05/13/09 04:00 PM
Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published
Truffle Royale
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Diamond Poster
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,813
Giant side of TX
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I know I'm coming late to the party but ???
Is the FINAL TIL the same as a corrected TIL? I thought the additional 3 days only applied if you had to give a revised TIL because the prelim changed and was now out of tolerance.
To (try to ) clarify: ETIL 3 & 7 days running concurrently - Final TIL at table still needs additional 3 days??? What if it's a purchase? That means the Final TIL has to go out three days (or 3 + 3 if mailed) prior to closing? Truffle I disagree - - - This is they way I read it. 1. Early TIL and GFE are generated ("delivered" according to the final rule means given or mailed) = start 7 Bus Day Clock 2. IF - during the process the APR on the early TIL becomes out of tolerance - you must redisclose another early TIL "Corrected" = start 3 Bus Day Clock . . . . . {IF this is mailed add another 3 Bus Days to assume the applicant "receives") I guess this was done to match up to the RESPA change that is coming dealing with the RESPA early disclosures.Loan can be closed at the Later Of the # of days from #1 or #2. IMO - A Final TIL given at closing is just additional disclosure / customer service, and because it is not a "Corrected" or "Re-disclosed" TIL required because of an out of tolerance APR, the 3 Bus Day waiting period is not applicable.
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#1182393 - 05/13/09 04:10 PM
Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published
ktac MITCH
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Power Poster
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,364
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dtacMITCH....that's kinda how I was going to present this madness to lenders. Assuming that we're going to always give a final TIL and do not intend to test the prelim for tolerance: - Provide the prelim (mail or delivery) and determine the earliest possible closing date by counting the 7 business days.
- Once the loan is approved, provide a final Disclosure Statement and depending on delivery method, count 3 or 6 days to determine a closing date.
- The later of the above two dates will be the closing date for the loan.
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The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle.......
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#1182398 - 05/13/09 04:13 PM
Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published
swiggles
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10K Club
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 17,410
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swiggles, Mitch and I are giving the Final at the closing table withOUT additional three days. Sounds like you're making more work for yourself by sending it prior to closing if there are no changes. (Am I getting this right now??? )
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#1182422 - 05/13/09 04:23 PM
Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published
QCL
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Power Poster
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,364
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Swiggles, One change...delivery method does not matter.
The board stated that they will not adopt separate rules or presumptions for overnight shipping or electronic delivery. (page 10) Right....I agree. Delivery method for the 7-day waiting period does not matter (I guess I was using the term "delivery" for everything other than "snail mail"). But it does for the 3-day waiting period if a corrected disclosure has to be provided. Is that what you mean?
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The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle.......
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#1182440 - 05/13/09 04:29 PM
Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published
QCL
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Diamond Poster
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,813
Giant side of TX
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QCL - correct that paragraph 1 on pg 10 indicates no matter if mailed / emailed / sent by courier other than USPS = the 3 additional days to assume the consumer receives the disclosure.
But, paragraph 2 indicats that a creditor can depend on evidence of delivery (proof of delivery by overnight, certified, etc) But for me, why add more potential for confusion - just stick with the 3 additional days if it was not given in person
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My opinions are just that, and might be worth what you paid for them.
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#1182461 - 05/13/09 04:41 PM
Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published
ktac MITCH
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Power Poster
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 6,259
NW IL
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QCL - correct that paragraph 1 on pg 10 indicates no matter if mailed / emailed / sent by courier other than USPS = the 3 additional days to assume the consumer receives the disclosure.
But, paragraph 2 indicats that a creditor can depend on evidence of delivery (proof of delivery by overnight, certified, etc) But for me, why add more potential for confusion - just stick with the 3 additional days if it was not given in person Swiggles, this is what I was talking about.
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#1182542 - 05/13/09 05:22 PM
Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published
QCL
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100 Club
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 128
Mid-Missouri
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Would this scenario be correct?
Receive application on Monday June 1st, 2009
Mail Early disclosures on Tuesday June 2nd, 2009 = starts timing
First 3day requirement is up on Friday June 5th, 2009
Seven day requirement is up on Wednesday June 10th, 2009 (as long as there are no revisions to the early disclosures) the initial 3day and the seven days run concurrent; closing will take place on Wednesday June 10th 2009.
However, on Friday June 5th the early disclosures are revised and are mailed to the consumer = starts next 3 days, (consumer is considered to have received the disclosures on or before Tuesday June 9th, 2009 and another 3 day waiting period starts; closing may take place on Saturday June 13th or Monday15th, 2009.
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#1182578 - 05/13/09 05:41 PM
Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published
Jae
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Power Poster
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,364
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Jae posted: Would this scenario be correct? Receive application on Monday June 1st, 2009 Mail Early disclosures on Tuesday June 2nd, 2009 = starts timing First 3day requirement is up on Friday June 5th, 2009 I don't think you have to count this 3-days.....only if there is a re-disclosure due to inaccuracy.Seven day requirement is up on Wednesday June 10th, 2009 (as long as there are no revisions to the early disclosures) the initial 3day and the seven days run concurrent; closing will take place on Wednesday June 10th 2009. I counted seven days to be the 9th (saturday is a business day for the 7-day waiting period and closing can take place ON the 7th day).However, on Friday June 5th the early disclosures are revised and are mailed to the consumer = starts next 3 days, (consumer is considered to have received the disclosures on or before Tuesday June 9th, 2009 and another 3 day waiting period starts; closing may take place on Saturday June 13th or Monday 15th, 2009. If you mailed corrected disclosures on June 5th, you must count six days (saturday is a business day) allowing consummation on June 12th.That's my take..........
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The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle.......
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#1182598 - 05/13/09 05:52 PM
Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published
Truffle Royale
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Power Poster
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,364
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Keep in mind when you're counting your 7/3/6 days that altho the Reg defines business days, YOU have to be open to do business on whatever day your count ends. I think that's what's leading to the confusion in Swiggles response to Jae. It doesn't matter if you CAN close on Saturday the 12th if you're not open on that day. If I'm reading the Reg correctly....the 3 days to provide the Prelim is still determined by using the old "business day" definition (a business means any day that the creditor is open for substantially all of its business functions). But for the 7 day waiting period after providing the prelim and the 3 (or 6) day waiting period after re-disclosure, the term "business day" means all calendar days except Sundays and legal holidays. Is that correct?
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The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle.......
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#1182628 - 05/13/09 06:15 PM
Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published
swiggles
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Power Poster
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,094
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That is correct, Swiggles.
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#1182664 - 05/13/09 06:36 PM
Re: New Reg Z Final Rule - Just Published
ahou
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100 Club
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 136
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A company that does our compliance audits e-mailed me with instructions and they said if the initial truth in lending is outside of tolerance and we must provide another truth in lending the Bank must wait until on or after the 3rd business day following the date the corrected initial truth in lending to consummate (close the loan)
They said nothing about 3 days + 3 days=6 days. Just 3 days and can close on or after the 3rd day on a corrected truth in lending
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