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#1221565 - 07/23/09 07:28 PM
Re: Health Care
Pale Rider
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,719
PA
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most health related expenses occur in the last year of life, so us oldies will be the ones paying for all this...
by having the care rationed away from us - the ones not worth the effort ..... Maybe healthcare reform is really social security reform in disguise...
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#1221568 - 07/23/09 07:31 PM
Re: Health Care
Becka Marr
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10K Club
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 19,935
Pulling people out of the ditc...
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I don't understand where you get this idea. He's not even suggesting that government make decisions for people about their coverage, let alone their health care. The whole point of this reform is put the decision-making back into the hands of doctors & patients - out of the hands of insurance companies, and not in the hands of government.
Sadly, you are woefully incorrect on this point. There will be a review panel that will determine what procedures are necessary, taking the decision from both the patient and the doctor, and placing it squarely in whatever government agency/panel that is created. Is this what you're referring to: "The Republican Congress passed a bill that created a panel of health care experts to make recommendations to Congress on how we could get better quality, lower cost. ... It's not going to reduce Medicare benefits. What it's going to do is to change how those benefits are delivered so that they're more efficient." not at all (plus, Congress no longer Republican)...
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#1221569 - 07/23/09 07:31 PM
Re: Health Care
JacF
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 14,141
In the Snow :)
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All of this talk about cuts to Medicare makes me wonder - could this be why they are trying to push this through so quickly, before AARP gets their members organized and complaining - LOUDLY.
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The woods are lovely dark & deep & I have promises to keep & miles to go before I sleep and miles to go before I sleep
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#1221573 - 07/23/09 07:35 PM
Re: Health Care
Snow Bunny
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Power Poster
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,249
out of the frying pan...
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I think I'm going to expand my herb garden and buy some books on traditional medicine. Kitchen chemistry has got to be less painful than trying to figure this mess out.
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You call it ADD. I call it multi-tasking.
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#1221601 - 07/23/09 08:00 PM
Re: Health Care
Becka Marr
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,121
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The Congressional majority wants to pay for its $1 trillion to $1.6 trillion health bills with new taxes and a $500 billion cut to Medicare. This cut will come just as baby boomers turn 65 and increase Medicare enrollment by 30%. Less money and more patients will necessitate rationing. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that only 1% of Medicare cuts will come from eliminating fraud, waste and abuse. I don't understand how you conclude that care will need to be rationed, unless you are assuming that Medicare is the only option people have for coverage? I am concluding that Medicare (which is the primary insurer for elderly) will be rationed. Tremendous cost savings available there. Make no mistake, if you want to lower medical costs, two things must happen. Defensive medicine practices need to be stopped and care needs to be rationed. Any statements otherwise are just false, as the non-partisan CBO report has made clear.
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#1221616 - 07/23/09 08:09 PM
Re: Health Care
straw
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10K Club
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,002
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Did this thread get back on track?
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#1221617 - 07/23/09 08:10 PM
Re: Health Care
Truffle Royale
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,152
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Yes, I think health care needs reform but this isn't it, imho. Start by overhauling the insurance industry and then come back and let me know what we need to tackle next. Well, according to Sox, the whole point of reform is to insure the uninsured... And pretty much every major issue raised concerns insurance... So, it would appear that is exactly where we are starting!
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To avoid criticism do nothing, say nothing, be nothing. ~Elbert Hubbard
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#1221623 - 07/23/09 08:19 PM
Re: Health Care
straw
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,132
Somewhere in the middle
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Can we say, Fat Tax, Sugar Tax, Carb Tax, Cable TV Tax, Anything that they want to TAX!
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#1221624 - 07/23/09 08:20 PM
Re: Health Care
DD Regs
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,002
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Air?
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#1221626 - 07/23/09 08:22 PM
Re: Health Care
A_G
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Power Poster
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,559
Foxboro
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There is a lot of concern that employers may stop offering health insurance through private companies if there is a cheaper "public" option out there. More on the rolls, more cost.
Edited to add: TR just beat me to it.
And for what it is worth, how many of these "uninsured Americans" are illegally here? Lets drop that number right from eligibility-that should save billions.
Last edited by Sox in 07; 07/23/09 08:24 PM.
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Best QB Ever. Worst Defense Ever.
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#1221628 - 07/23/09 08:25 PM
Re: Health Care
A_G
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10K Club
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 14,141
In the Snow :)
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Like that ^^^^^ Miscuit! Re Medicare - there most likely are some limits that should be done. I spent 10+ years as caregiver for my FIL. Before I got involved, he would run to the doctor for anything. Little toe hurts - off to the doctor, then complain when doc can't do anything about shoes that he bought that were 2 sizes too small. But would he stop wearing the shoes - not until we took them away. There are a lot of seniors out there who run to the doctor for everything that comes down the pike. But there's no way to monitor that.
Last edited by P.B.; 07/23/09 08:27 PM. Reason: Add Miscuit Remark
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The woods are lovely dark & deep & I have promises to keep & miles to go before I sleep and miles to go before I sleep
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#1221631 - 07/23/09 08:28 PM
Re: Health Care
Snow Bunny
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Power Poster
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,559
Foxboro
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To add to that PB, my FIL has gone through 2 major heart surgeries and has diabetes, yet he still smokes, sits on his rear end all day and eats whatever he darn well pleases. I shudder to think of those costs (thank you everyone) and the fact he doesn't take care of himself.
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Best QB Ever. Worst Defense Ever.
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#1221643 - 07/23/09 08:41 PM
Re: Health Care
straw
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Power Poster
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,152
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True. But I need someone to explain how we will add people to the insurance rolls but reduce costs. I'm sure that's not a question I can answer. I'm trying to figure this all out, just like you; and it makes my head dizzy... But, if we create more affordable options for health insurance, then more people can pay for coverage, and if more people are putting money into the system, wouldn't that help to reduce costs across the board? I think the major hurdle is to allocate resources in a way that gives incentive for people to buy the service. There's an awful lot to this plan that puts the burden of cost directly on the insurance providers, which will save consumers a lot of expense - if they have coverage.
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To avoid criticism do nothing, say nothing, be nothing. ~Elbert Hubbard
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#1221657 - 07/23/09 08:50 PM
Re: Health Care
Becka Marr
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,121
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True. But I need someone to explain how we will add people to the insurance rolls but reduce costs. I'm sure that's not a question I can answer. I'm trying to figure this all out, just like you; and it makes my head dizzy... But, if we create more affordable options for health insurance, then more people can pay for coverage, and if more people are putting money into the system, wouldn't that help to reduce costs across the board? I think the major hurdle is to allocate resources in a way that gives incentive for people to buy the service. There's an awful lot to this plan that puts the burden of cost directly on the insurance providers, which will save consumers a lot of expense - if they have coverage. Maybe the reason we can't figure out the answer is that there isn't one
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#1221661 - 07/23/09 08:53 PM
Re: Health Care
Snow Bunny
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,121
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Like that ^^^^^ Miscuit! Re Medicare - there most likely are some limits that should be done. I spent 10+ years as caregiver for my FIL. Before I got involved, he would run to the doctor for anything. Little toe hurts - off to the doctor, then complain when doc can't do anything about shoes that he bought that were 2 sizes too small. But would he stop wearing the shoes - not until we took them away. There are a lot of seniors out there who run to the doctor for everything that comes down the pike. But there's no way to monitor that. I was watching Star Trek: Next Generation (I know I am a geek) the other night and the episode was about an alien planet whose inhabitants committed suicide at age 65 so they didn't become a burder to their loved ones. I know this is a purposely outrageous example, but any rationing smacks of this to me. However, Europeans and Canadians have been living with this for years. I think the difference is the greater individual indepenence endemic to American culture that creates such resistance to these ideas.
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#1221663 - 07/23/09 08:56 PM
Re: Health Care
RR Becca
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10K Club
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,766
Turnpike Exit 10
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I think I'm going to expand my herb garden and buy some books on traditional medicine. Kitchen chemistry has got to be less painful than trying to figure this mess out. <<<---- already has an herb garden...
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Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain
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#1221683 - 07/23/09 09:15 PM
Re: Health Care
Retired DQ
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Power Poster
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,577
Down Yonder
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I know this is a purposely outrageous example... You're right, bad example. Logan's Run would have been a much better one
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#1221694 - 07/23/09 09:29 PM
Re: Health Care
TB 12
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Power Poster
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,152
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And for what it is worth, how many of these "uninsured Americans" are illegally here? Lets drop that number right from eligibility-that should save billions. No, it won't. Not as long as they are still able to see a doctor. The only way the rest of us are spared the extra expense of their care is if a)they pay for the services out of pocket, or b)have insurance.
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To avoid criticism do nothing, say nothing, be nothing. ~Elbert Hubbard
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#1221696 - 07/23/09 09:37 PM
Re: Health Care
Becka Marr
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10K Club
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 34,318
under the Lone Star
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suicide at 65!?!?!?!?
I missed my appointment!
what a nightmare !
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#1221708 - 07/23/09 09:47 PM
Re: Health Care
Miscuit
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Power Poster
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,912
Outside A Garage
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"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." Official Motto of the State of Californeeya.
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