http://cnsnews.com/news/article/us-depar...ficient-reading

The majority of Chicago public school children are not proficient at reading (79%) and math (80%).

The average salary of a Chicago teacher is more than $70,000 and this does not include the value of benefits.

The last offer by the city was a 16% pay increase over 4 years, I think.

your point?

Sometimes you have to strike for better schools.

We were watching something on WGN last night and they interrupted the show at around 10:30 to say there might be a strike. I'd forgotten all about it, probably because it doesn't impact me, but still interesting to see more about it.

If they can't read, perhaps they should spend time at the Derek Zoolander School for Kids Who Can't Read Good and Want to Do Other Stuff Good Too.

Seriously, I've seen the standarized tests, in Ohio at least, and frankly, they do not test whether you can read, they test whether you can take a test on reading.

Further, you can't put teaching a child to read on the shoulders of teachers. They are there to help, but PARENTS need to spend time reading with their children, and helping them learn to read.

I do not know about Chicago by many states have laws against srikes by teachers. If they are in violation of Law fire them.

that said are there really any parents that need to be told to read to their children? sorry stupid question. I have been reading to my daugther nighly, since before she could speak.

Teachers strikes in Illinois are as regular as the leaves changing colors. It's just a sign that it's fall.

And yes, there a lots of parents who need to be told to read to their children. Here is a quote from the website for Leap Learning, a Chicago program trying to help disadvantaged kids catch up.



I find those stats to be stunning. The parents need to be taught to be parents. I know what you mean Ed. We read to our kids nightly too, before they could speak. Frankly, that's how they learn to speak. But there are a lot of houses that don't even have books in them. I don't know how those kids catch up.

EdAudit - there are many parents who either don't have the time or the inclination to help teach their kids to read - and anything else. I think it's very sad.

I do not have the time for many things, being a parent is not one of them.

Sadly, the kids that aren't learning to read, also don't teach their children to read, and they don't teach their children to read. When you add in lack of understanding of birth control, having sex instead of reading, and no money for going out to do something, you get lots of kids who can't read! (Only slightly sarcastic)

SAIVE OUR SKOOLS!

Reports are they have agreed on the salary increase at 16% over 4 years. They can retire at 60 with annual retirement equal to 75% of their highest pay.

So in 4 years, the typical Chicago teacher will retire with cash benefits of more than $5,500 a month.

That is sweet, if the citizens of Chitown can afford it.

^^This. First, we need parents who care in inner-city districts such as Chicago. Sadly, there aren't nearly enough, and the results speak for themselves. No amount of money or pandering from local and federal politicians will change the results until these kids get better parents (sarcasm intended).

Some of the parents do care, but they don't have the skills to make a change. Sigh.

Let them move to Oklahoma. They can teach for $30,000 a year. With the new curriculum implemented this year, teachers are now not only evaluated on whether the student learns but how the student acts. My daughter said that after 3 weeks of school she is going to be evaluated and part of it is how many times she might have to tell a student to do something. If they have to repeat something to a student a certain amount of times then she is graded down on her evaluation. You evaluation score can get you terminated. She has 23 5 year-olds and one is 1 point above the score for MR (Mentally Retarded) and the parents refuse to accept that &/or don't care. By the time they get through Kindergarten they are expected to be able to read and write in paragraphs. This little girl can't recognize her name when she sees it written. Teachers aren't allowed to teach, they have to try to make sure that kids can pass what they are being tested on.

every school district has classes with learning challanged students and the evaluation system should take that into consideration. The unions for the teachers do not care anything about the student only the teachers salaries and benefits and how to maximize them (that is of course there job) so evaluations of the teachers is off limits. It is up to the pols. to fix education that is what we pay them for. A blank check is never the correct answer. PS: would love to have a job with guaranteed 4% increases over the next 4 years with the best benefits money can buy.

I guess the rush will be on now to move to Chicago and become a teacher.

not when compared to this group

http://longisland.newsday.com/schools/rankings.php?id=pay


Note data is from 2005 and salaries have gone up.

IMO, the only way to come close to "fixing" education in this country, if it's possible, involves both pay and accountability. Just like in the private sector we talk about the profit motive and how it's healthy, etc., you aren't going to attract the best and brightest minds to teaching unless you pay teachers well (and since standards of living and what the dollar will buy varies so much from place to place in this country, what sounds "outlandish" in one place would be poverty wages in another). Then, after you have paid them well, put some strict accountability into play. Teachers that aren't getting the job done need to be let go. But i disagree with the unspoken notion that it's outlandish for successful, devoted teachers to be paid :gasp: what someone in a white-collar private sector job is making.

Salary is just one part of the story; in the past governmental workers were paid less due to a great retirement (some retire at 50 and become an administrator at another district) and benefit package. Now the want to keep the benefits and retirement and get the salary of the private sector as well. Please note that private school teachers do not get paid anywhere as well as public school teachers in my area (it may be different in other areas). It is also noted that other goverenmet workers get paid just as well as teachers (sanitation, police, fire, janitorial) where is the money going to come from?

I agree it's not a simple fix and i'm talking about teachers, not administrators (who relative to teachers, are very much overpaid in my experience).

If you and I can agree that it is not a simple fix why can't the Pols. and Unions see it? Both sides see it as just a money issue.

If sanitation workers are getting paid "just as well" as teachers, i'm sorry to any sanitation workers i might be offending, but i think that's ridiculous.

The joke in Illinois is that to get good retirement benefits, marry an Illinois teacher. Their pension situation is a mess. Another example of giving out what you don't have-to the tune of $60+ billion in debt.

::wonders if any Chicago area school kids are reading these threads::

80% can't read at their grade level!

is this the PE teachers fault? or the math teacher? science?

we have so hamstrung our teachers ability to teach...kids are now "socially promoted" regardless of capability, so they will be with kids their age...you can't discipline kids in school, for fear of being arrested...assigning homework to inner city youths is verboten - they don't have parents engaged and willing to help them...in many big cities, the only kids in public school are those whose parent(s) can't afford private school - where teachers are still allowed to teach, and hold kids accountable, and punish those who transgress the rules...and parents want to be involved in their kids and school - and usually are!

then they should be fine with these threads

POTY^^^^^

This may be a little closer and you can check each state. However, it says starting salary for Oklahoma is $35,000 and I know that my daughter started at less than that so....

http://www.teacherportal.com/salary/Oklahoma-teacher-salary

Checked the State department of Education website which lists salary schedules. In 2008 a beginning teacher in Oklahoma could not be paid less than $31,600 - which could include fringe benefits paid by the district. If you had a Master's you could get $32,800 and a doctorate $34,000. Checking the pay scale for 2012-2013 - it's the exact same. After you have taught for 25 years there is no increase in payscale unless the minimums are raised. I have been in banking 30 years. I would hate to think that I would be stuck making what I did 5 years ago until I can retire in another 12 years.

Arizona is similar but my brother in NY makes over $100k, free health care for life and can retire at 55 at 80% of his salary. He gets step ups for seniority, more sick days than I get for vacation days while only having a 180 day work year. He banks the sick days and he figure he will stop working 3 to 4 years prior to retirement on full pay using his sick pay.

Chicago is similar. They work even less, fewer hours in a day. The median is over $70k, free health care, similar pension. Chicago offerd 4% per year raises, even though school budget will be $1 billion deficit. Union said its not enough.

I don't know about you, but I haven't seen a 4% raise in 5 years, with no raise 3 of the last 5 years.

I was SHOCKED when I saw a loan for two retired Illinois teachers cross my desk last week. Their combined monthly retirement income was over $14,000. Yup, $7k each a month! Oh, and they were in their 50s.

Had I known this when I was in school in IL, I would have changed majors and (choke) stayed there long enough to retire like this.

Retirement from banking will not yield anything like this!

A friend of mine just retired after 30 years of teaching - she is 3 years younger than me - 51 :-( She's always had 2 jobs - teaching and being organist/choir director at the church. She will have a nice retirement - travel a lot. She always put a lot into her teaching and they have a fabulous choir program at the HS. She just burned out. She began doing workshops for other HS before she retired. I imagine she will continue that.

Last time I checked - starting salary here is $40,000.

My sister retired from teaching a couple of years ago, but in Oklahoma you don't get free health care. She is now on Medicare and supplemental insurance. The retirement benefits are nice, but as for only working 180 days a year - a lot do more. Figure in the weekends, summers spent in workshops or taking continuing education classes or just getting ready for the next school year, especially if you teach in elementary. Oh, and the evenings grading papers, etc. My daughter goes in around 7:00 so she can beat the traffic - 750 kids being delivered down a 2 lane road. She takes a protein shake for lunch that she gulps down the 15-20 minutes they are in music and movement. She doesn't have time to eat during lunch with 23 kids to supervise. She is on the playground with them and can leave at 3:30 if she doesn't stay to work on lesson plans or clean up from the day. She is on her feet for most of that time and keeping 23 5 year-olds under control. That's a long day and she comes home exhausted. I came from a teaching family so I know the time and effort and amount of your own money you put into the classroom. She also bought lunches for some of her kids even the first week of school because parents didn't send money. If it's not paid for, the kid's get a frozen peanut butter and jelly sandwich - pre-packaged that has had the crust removed. She said they are nasty and no kid should have to eat that. So she pays for their lunches. All on $1,800/ month take-home.

I've never gotten the "teachers only work 9 months" stuff either......if we want teachers to work 12 months a year, then go to a 12 month a year school year. Simple as that.

i know many people, myself included, who come to work early to beat traffic, work late, take work home, work weekends, answer emails late into the night, rarely get a true vacation where work isn't contacting me, I attend continuing education for work, these often start on a Sunday...

I don't get a week at Thanksgiving, 2 weeks at Christmas, a week at Easter, a week at spring break, and 2-3 months off in the summer.

Do teachers work hard? Much like any profession, some do much more than their peers, others do as much, and others still do just enough to get by...

Now, maybe I'm unusual, but over the course of my life I have worked for 13 different companies - from 1 person owners to multi-national companies...in every one of these, i knew before I started what the salary would be, how much time off I would have. I didn't walk into these blind...if i didn't like what i was being offered, or if I thought it should be more after i'd been there a while, i took steps to find something paying more...

Maybe it is time for teachers to wake up and view their jobs like everyone else does...

My brother told me that teaching is for young people and retiring at 55 is essential because teachers get burned out. I turned to my wife and said it is good thing lawyers and accountants don't get burned out so we can work into our late 60's.

Valid points (and for the record....when i was a teacher, i didn't belong to a union and would never have voted to go on strike). My point was that the time off with teaching is simply the nature of the beast: if there are no kids at school for 2 weeks around Christmas or 2 months in the summer, it stands to reason there normally won't be teachers there. It sounds to me like teaching is a different animal depending on what state you're in and whether you're in a rural area versus an urban one. So Happy, i agree with you on the strike part....teachers know the salary schedule upon agreeing to take the job and if they didn't like it, they shoulda looked elsewhere. But the same holds true for the schedule teachers have: we all know that schools are out in the summer. If we as a country don't like it, then make school a year round thing or go back to school and become a teacher to take advantage of it. But don't hold it against teachers if they don't show up in July when school's not on.

Another example of positive union participation.

RJ - I'm not holding this against them, just stating for the record...

and, if you annualize the pay rate of teachers as if they were working all but 2-3 weeks, like most of corporate America, their salary increases by roughly another 33%...

Maybe there should be a bankers union i can join so that when a new regulation comes out, if we don't like it, we can go on strike until they rescind it...because this is what the Chicago strike is about - grading teachers and holding them accountable.

Like i said, teaching in Chicago, Illinois doesn't appear to resemble teaching in rural Texas at all.

It does resemble New York except NY pays more.

There does appear to be differences between "rural" vs "urban" teaching. The same as there are differences between community bank salaries and money center bank salaries.

In Louisiana, teachers pay into the state retirement system instead of social security...retire at 20 years with 50% salary, at 25 years with 60% salary, at 30 years with 75% salary. All options have benefits covered at no cost. You can also "retire" through a program called "drop" and "work" for 3 years as a "contract employee" while getting your retirement pay put into a special "retirement account" and get paid your normal salary with no benefit deductions for those 3 years. La. teachers are paid in retirement an average of their 3 highest salary years, so many become assistant principals or coach teams for a year or 2 to boost that amount...

oh, and they pay a whopping $125 per month for family insurance coverage...just went up from $85 a month in my parish...I pay close to $600 per month for mine...

I'm quite sure the 8%+ who are unemployed in our country would love to have those jobs at those salaries with a 16% pay raise guaranteed over the next 4 years. The rest of working America are held accountable for our job performance - even gov't workers(harder there to get rid of non-productive folks but can be done). I don't understand why teachers aren't. Why can't we establish a standard and hold all teachers accountable?

Bad parenting story. In a public school district that two relatives work for, the reading classes require students to get a parent to sign-off on their homework in order to get full credit, and presumably to get the parents involved with their children. Well one child, a good student, had an assignment to read to his parent and have them sign his book. He never got his book signed however, and was losing points. When asked why he wasn't reading to his parent, he said that 'everytime I try, she tells me to get out of the way, she can't see the TV'. He is now reading to an aide at school during breakfast.

I coach 1st and 2nd graders, and couldn't imagine spending a whole day, everyday with 20-25 of them. Teachers deserve a good salary.

Except for one thing, if yo udon't like your salary at the bank you work at, you can easily go to another company. With school teachers, they have a choice of working for a private school (usually at lower pay) or a public school district (for the state), and pay is fixed. They can't just switch employers easily and stay in their field.

Sorry, but that doesn't work. Many teachers end up PAYING part of their salary during summers each year to work. Yup, continuing education costs them money. Also, they end up spending part of their salaries on supplies for their students and classroom. Can you imagine if you were required to fork over the money for not only all the pens and paper your customers used, but also books, decorations for your bank, etc.?

they can also look at upgrading their education, becoming "certified" which has guaranteed increases, looking at post-secondary schools (colleges, universities, trade schools, community colleges)...there are options...and, most colleges allow children of employees attend tuition free (yes, you are taxed on this benefit...)

the continuing education teachers in Louisiana get is paid for by the school system and done at the school or school board office, no cost to the teachers...i also spend part of my money on school supplies for kids who don't have them...as do most other parents whose kids attend public schools.

I work in a back office, no public sees my group...i spend my own money on decorations for most holidays, we host numerous meals each year for employees (out of my pocket), we do ice cream once a month (yep, my pocket again), and i take employees to lunch on their birthday (yep, my pocket again). With 38 employees, i don;t even want to think of how much it costs...

In the past I have purchased a laptop which I use for work. Brief cases, Backpacks tablet all out of my pocket (and I do not get a tax break on any of it, teacher can claim in NY up to $1,500).

Wait, you think that you can just jump from being a teacher in an elementary or Jr. High school to a university? LOL

Well, yes, you can. You simply must have a masters or PHD to teach at the college level. We have a program known as "Move on When Ready" in our high school, where kids who have certain GPAs and a certain SAT score can begin attending college courses AT high school. They have some teachers who are qualified to teach at the local college as well as teaching at the HS. They are also bringing some teachers in from the collge as these kids have a building all to themselves and a regular college schedule.

When i was a teacher the "bump" in pay for having a master's degree was ridiculously low--like $300/yr. vs. without it.

In Kentucky it will be $3,500 when my son obtains his masters next year.

They can join the corporate world as trainers. If corporations are hiring but away goes the retirement, free healthcare, 4%raises ...

I just didn't realize the gravy train i was on in 1989 when i started teaching at $15,060/yr.

Here they wouldn't be teaching if they weren't "certified." Even moving from another state, you have to be certified by Oklahoma. Until then you get substitute pay. I think the increase is $1,200 for a Master's over a Bachelor's. But they spend more than than in the years it takes them to go to night class to get there. And you have to have a Master's to teach at the university level.

sounds like what a teller would make at that time. Starting sal vs starting sal.

Sorry Ed, but if you're saying a starting teller at a bank and a starting teacher at a public school should make the same salary, i disagree.

I wish! After 5+ years (and two promotions) at a community bank, my salary is finally equal to what a first year teacher makes in our county. When I started as a teller, the pay was barely over minimum wage (and would have been roughly 1/2 of a first year teacher's salary at the time).

If you stayed a teacher in 1989 you would have been retired 3 years now and recieving a paycheck.

Why does a Chicago teach need to make twice as much (median for Chicago teach is $70,000) as a private sector employee (median for Chicago private sector employee is $37000). That does not include benefits that private sector employees can only dream about.

While I realize here in AZ, in OK, and many other parts of the country, teachers don't make that kind of money, but we are talking about Chicago teachers striking where their median slary is double private sector employees and they have been offered 4% annual raises for the contract they have gone to strike over.

I disagree with teachers striking during a school year for pretty much any reason, period. Straw, I would have thought that $70,000 in Chicago equated to about $40,000 here in Oklahoma and i would have thought $37,000 in Chicago barely put you above the poverty line. I agree....i don't have any sympathy for them if that's the case.

bigest part of the problem is the people making $37,000. need to pay the salary of those making $70,000. When you factor in that teachers are only part of the muni. salaries you have a workforce of 60% private and 40% gvment. Private is working for 45 years to get to retirement, government working for 20 years. so you are paying more than 2 people (one on retirement) to do the job of 1. Where is the money going to come from?

Ed, again, i can't comment on places like Chicago, but the 20 years you're quoting for retirement holds no water in places like Oklahoma and Texas. When i left Texas, you weren't eligible for retirement until your age plus years of service equalled 85, which for me (if i had bought out my previous service in Oklahoma and transferred it to Texas) would have meant the earliest i could have retired was after 32 years of service. But if you retired before some age (62 maybe?), you didn't get full retirement.

totally different in blue cities like NY and Chicago.

That is where we differ (if we differ) we are not comparing apples to apples (once again).

In Oklahoma it is now age plus years of service have to equal 90 to be able to draw out of retirement. And your benefits are based upon an average of your final 3 years of service. I have been divorced a year and a half. I was alloted 25% of what my ex-husband would have received at the time of the divorce if he retired then. And he was eligible for retirement at the previous calculation of age + years of service = 80. I think I will receive between $200-$300 a month. He was eligible for retirement, but there is no way he could have survived on retirement alone even if I didn't get any of it. That's why most continue to teach until they either can find another line of work paying more or they can receive Social Security and Medicare. By the time they pay for health insurance there isn't anything left.

Our local school system has lost lots of good male teachers recently. They have taken jobs in the private sector to make more money. They have had it trying to work where your hands are tied and the parents blame you for their child not doing well.

mmmmmmm, gravy

Wow Happy, you really treat them well! Are you hiring??

why, yes, BF, if one has the educational background, one can. My son's high school lost 3 teachers from last year to the local college...2 were working on their Masters and one the PhD. and were recruited by the college based on their graduation date.

And depending on how fast a college is growing and how badly they need teachers, some have even taken without a masters...

I wonder if the Illinois teachers and other public employees will see all of the fat pensions they've been promised. The state pension system is so underfunded, and the state government just keeps kicking the can down the road. Eventually, the state could have to file bankruptcy. I don't know what will happen to the pensions then. Maybe the federal government will pick up the liability, and then you taxpayers in the other 49 states can pay it.

Pensions are usualy safe from bankrupcy. (the Pols would not allow the paid voters to take the hit)

Not here. We have a branch campus of a university in town. The Dean called wanting me to teach a night class on Music History since one of my degrees is Vocal Music Education. Couldn't do it because I don't have a Masters.

which is why i said: some have even taken without a masters...

But those arent upper case letters, so he's not shouting!

And all I did was state that they didn't do that here. I'm not shouting either as I'm not arguing....just making a statement.

This is exactly what our governor has been trying to address, and he's gotten a lot of heat for it. But he took on the NJEA (New Jersey Education Association), perhaps the most powerful union in the state, and won concessions. I can't remember anyone else ever attempting that. He even had the temerity to cap superintendent salaries at a level equal to the governor's salary, $175,000 per annum. Consequently, a number of superintendents have left the state, to the greener pastures of NY and CT.

Thanks a lot

Hey, if you guys wouldn't pay them, they wouldn't have gone there. I have to admit: I was a bit stunned to see how much some of them were able to get in salary.

Some one needs to be the 1%rs

Are they still out on strike?

wow, your spelling is bad.... it's ARE not OUR. shesh..

Yeah, you should of known that!

Can't take education for granite.

It's for the stoodents!

I thought that spelling and grammar were no longer important?

Yes. Hopefully, an agreement will be made today and the kids can get back to school Monday. That's what my friend, who is a reluctantly striking teacher is being told.

yes, because crossing the picket line to honor your contractual obligations can lead to worse problems...such as flat tires, beatings, and alienation by your peers...

I wish I could find a part-time job that paid $70k and could strike to get more!

They aren't striking over pay. I think they are stuck on another issue.

pay is a portion of the issue, but just to show it was not the main issue, they agreed to a 3% increase per year for 4 years versus a 4% increase per year...in a school system that is currently running a deficit of over $1b dollars

There's no option to cross the picket lines. Most schools are closed and locked completely; the schools that are being kept open for students to have somewhere to go other than the streets are being staffed by non-union employees, and no sane parent with any other choice would send their kids there. It's not just a simple matter of "choosing" not to strike. If you're a union teacher in Chicago, you do what your extremely powerful union tells you you're doing.

As teachers are government workers and Unions were set up to protect the union workers from abusive bosses why do they need a union again?

Yes, they will agree to the raise but eliminate any performance related metrics, eliminate merit pay increases and eliminate perfomance reviews altogther. Then they will hold hands and say how this was all for the kids' sake.

The mayor's office has a lot of power and control but Chicago will need to become California before that will happen.

Forward!

Many years ago my school district had a strike in my senior year. I crossed the picket line as a 16-17 year old. With the teachers yelling and name calling. The strike was declared illegal by the courts but they continued. In the end the teachers got what they were looking for (a salary more than double the parent salary). They should have instead fired them all for holding an illegal strike. It gave me a good perspective of who my "esteemed" teachers and politicians (with no backbone)were. Fast forward to today nothing has changed.